Vegetarian diet of babies/children

Macha

Just following on from that previous thread on vegetarian babies/children, I would be interested to know how many of you would insist on your children being vegetarian?

Raminahobbin

i can't click any of them...

when i have kids, i will raise them as vegetarians, but im not going to deny them cocktail sausages at a friends birthday party, or a trip to Mc Donalds with their class...i just won't be providing the meat for them. If, when they reach the age where they can make their own decisions, they want to eat meat, they can go ahead. i just don't want to buy it/cook it for them.

obviously, i will be disappointed if they choose to include meat permanently. But aside from bringing them up the best i know how, i can't make their choices for them once they reach a certain age. All i can do is make sure they act with an informed mind.

Macha

Would you give your kids soy products, in light of the emerging data showing that it can have a negative effect, especially on male children?

Blub2k4

I'm thinking of all the kids that would grow up eating meat any chance they would get just to defy the rule that they dont get it.
Like anything which is forbidden it will only add mystique.

p.s the question says "insist".

Raminahobbin

taconnol wrote:

Would you give your kids soy products, in light of the emerging data showing that it can have a negative effect, especially on male children?

first i've heard about this, could you elaborate?
soy is in alot of products anyway, so even non vegetarians are getting it in some degree. i plan to have a few acres and grow a good bit (at least 50-80%) of our own food, so soy products and any sort of processed food would be minimal i'd imagine.

i should mention, i'm very idealistic and only 19, so at the moment the future i have envisioned is 8-20acres of land, pretty much self sustained, with my kids growing up vegetarian and me weaning myself onto 100% raw foods.

Hugh Hefner

I'd say I'd raise my children vegetarian (unless somewhere along the line I was convinced it would be detrimental to their growing bodies), simply because it's what I would have around the house and be eating myself. If, when they get older, they decide to eat meat then I certainly will prepare whatever meals they like.

How my future partner's diet will impact on this situation is yet to be seen.

Tar.Aldarion

Raminahobbin wrote:

i can't click any of them...

when i have kids, i will raise them as vegetarians, but im not going to deny them cocktail sausages at a friends birthday party, or a trip to Mc Donalds with their class...i just won't be providing the meat for them. If, when they reach the age where they can make their own decisions, they want to eat meat, they can go ahead. i just don't want to buy it/cook it for them.

obviously, i will be disappointed if they choose to include meat permanently. But aside from bringing them up the best i know how, i can't make their choices for them once they reach a certain age. All i can do is make sure they act with an informed mind.

Basically along these lines.

Macha

Raminahobbin wrote:

first i've heard about this, could you elaborate?
soy is in alot of products anyway, so even non vegetarians are getting it in some degree. i plan to have a few acres and grow a good bit (at least 50-80%) of our own food, so soy products and any sort of processed food would be minimal i'd imagine.

i should mention, i'm very idealistic and only 19, so at the moment the future i have envisioned is 8-20acres of land, pretty much self sustained, with my kids growing up vegetarian and me weaning myself onto 100% raw foods.

The reason Im asking this question (among others) is that I have a veg boyf and he is insisting that our children will not be allowed to eat meat. I think he's being a bit Nazi-ish about the whole thing (not that I don't respect his wishes, just the forcing-upon-others part).

As for the problems with soy, as far as I can make out from my internet browsings, there hasn't been a whole lot of research on the issue but what little research has been done, does suggest that eating too much soy products can affect the hormones of children (especially the males) at a time when their development and growth is vitally important. The results appear to range from the on-set of puberty in girls too early (ie age of 5-6) and the emasculation of the boys. As I said, none of this is concrete as far as I can see....

This is one of the more relevant links...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/286265.stm

Washout

I have an 18 month old daughter, and she is being raised vegitarian as i was and my wife was. she is a thriving happy healthy baby.

I disagree with the thoughts of your bf though...they way to raise your children is through mutual discussion and consent. to me it sounds like he is being dictatorship like you need to sit down and discuss.

Tar.Aldarion

Theyt are some very dodgy statistics at the moment...so far as to be a bit of a wild claim at the moment... especially with the use of proportionality...
Didn't a similar study show that if you joined a certain airforce you had a 96% chance of having only daughters as children or something?
I have been studying for statistics since 8:30 this morning coincidentally, they are ridiculously annoying.
I hope they find it is not the case in the end.

The reason Im asking this question (among others) is that I have a veg boyf and he is insisting that our children will not be allowed to eat meat. I think he's being a bit Nazi-ish about the whole thing (not that I don't respect his wishes, just the forcing-upon-others part).

That's what parents do. If you decide they will eat meat it's the same thing.
However you should both talk about it and come to a compromise or something. I'm glad I'm not in that situation yet.

Macha

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Theyt are some very dodgy statistics at the moment...so far as to be a bit of a wild claim at the moment... especially with the use of proportionality...
Didn't a similar study show that if you joined a certain airforce you had a 96% chance of having only daughters as children or something?
I have been studying for statistics since 8:30 this morning coincidentally, they are ridiculously annoying.
I hope they find it is not the case in the end.




That's what parents do. If you decide they will eat meat it's the same thing.
However you should both talk about it and come to a compromise or something. I'm glad I'm not in that situation yet.

Well I was hoping for a sort of "If you cook, they'll eat vegetarian and if I cook, they'll have some fish & chicken" compromise but he's like a horse with it's hind legs dug in.

And, well, they may be uncertainty surrounding the issue of soy and children but I don't think that the issue should be dismissed. This site is a little bit more um...unbiased...than the bbc website....http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/02GRAS.htm.

I suppose Im going with the whole "There's no smoke without fire" adage (and I dont want my daughter to suffer the misery of periods when the poor thing is only 5!)

Tar.Aldarion

taconnol wrote:

Well I was hoping for a sort of "If you cook, they'll eat vegetarian and if I cook, they'll have some fish & chicken" compromise but he's like a horse with it's hind legs dug in.

And, well, they may be uncertainty surrounding the issue of soy and children but I don't think that the issue should be dismissed. This site is a little bit more um...unbiased...than the bbc website....http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/02GRAS.htm.

I suppose Im going with the whole "There's no smoke without fire" adage (and I dont want my daughter to suffer the misery of periods when the poor thing is only 5!)

Heh, when I clicked the anti soy link on wiki earlier it led to the site you linked too.
Seems there are a lot of sites for and against it.

wiki wrote:

There are some studies that suggest that a phytoestrogen in soy can lead to alterations in the proliferation and migration of intestinal cells. The effects of these alterations are unkown. [9] [10] However, some studies conclude there are no adverse effects in human growth, development, or reproduction as a result of the consumption of soy-based infant formula. [11] Other studies conclude that more research is needed to answer the question of what effect phytoestrogens have on infants. [12] [13]

It also says that the soy page is under evaluation so it is not even to be trusted!
Hard to call about what to believe. The soy industry is one of the world's most wealthy and powerful industries so they could affect facts, just like people could be biased against them.
Oh the drama.


As for that situation with your bf, them eating any meat is probably like them eating any amount of meat to him. One murder, two murders etc, he probably is of the opinion that one is too much if he can prevent it. Not a good problem for yee to have.

Samos

taconnol wrote:

The reason Im asking this question (among others) is that I have a veg boyf and he is insisting that our children will not be allowed to eat meat. I think he's being a bit Nazi-ish about the whole thing (not that I don't respect his wishes, just the forcing-upon-others part).

The same accusation could be levelled at a parent who insists on feeding his/her child meat, or broccoli or tea or whatever, whether or not each action is in the best interests of the child. Parents are usually full of good intentions for their offspring, but often do not recognise that the child's opinions should carry as much weight, if not more on these issues.

I would steer my children towards what I thought was best for them, but would have to include provisos that this is achieved without undue harm to others. For instance, it would be unfair to spoil one's own child if other children were suffering and one could do something to alleviate that needless pain by not giving something unnecessary to your child. I think that meat would be one such thing...

Macha

Samos wrote:

The same accusation could be levelled at a parent who insists on feeding his/her child meat, or broccoli or tea or whatever, whether or not each action is in the best interests of the child. Parents are usually full of good intentions for their offspring, but often do not recognise that the child's opinions should carry as much weight, if not more on these issues.

I would steer my children towards what I thought was best for them, but would have to include provisos that this is achieved without undue harm to others. For instance, it would be unfair to spoil one's own child if other children were suffering and one could do something to alleviate that needless pain by not giving something unnecessary to your child. I think that meat would be one such thing...

Well in relation to the child's opinion/wishes, there's going to be a good 2-3 years (hopefully more ) when s/he won't have any opinions of his/her own or wont be able to voice them.

To state the obvious, the influence your parents have on you, including on your dietary habits, is enormous. I suppose I sometimes see veganism/vegetarianism as a bit of a burden, similar to someone who's dietary habits are restricted by for eg, a wheat allergy. I have a fair few veg friends and I see that they get quite frustrated at the lack of veg options, esp in restaurants. Then again, maybe if my kids are born as vegetarians, they won't see it as such...

An adult (including teenagers) who chooses to be vegetarian is aware of all this and still makes the choice, thats one thing. However, I dont really want to "indoctrinate" my kids with something Im not really sure I believe in. Similarly, I wouldn't raise my kids as Hindus if Im not Hindu.

Also, I suppose I dont want to be the odd one out of the family eating meat, that would make me quite uncomfortable. Nor do I want my kids to grow up thinking that "mum eats meat coz she doesn't understand that its wrong, etc...". This could, IMO, maybe lead to an undermining of my authority etc??

Then again, all the same worries apply to him...

Darn it, this problem is wrecking my head!

Wanted: magic wand to solve problem, PM me

Samos

What I wrote above is just another of my famously vague contributions to a debate! It was late and I was tired!!

The influence that parents have on their children is enormous but it is not always right or in the child's best interests. I resent my parent's raising me as Catholic, because I now know that it was more damaging that helpful, and I would have appreciated a say on this matter, instead of being forced to do what they believed was best. In a situation where both parent's conflict on a major issue where a compromise is not possible somebody will have to give in to the other. Ethics is always a personal issue, and if your position is strong enough then you should be able to persuade the other party and come to a consensus.

seamus

It's something I'd have to look into more deeply when I have kids, but we've kind of agreed that we're not going to raise our kids as vegetarians. That is, generally meals will be family meals (i.e. we won't cook Spaghetti Bolognese for them and pasta for us), but instead of maybe a nut cutlet they'd get a chicken breast or a piece of fish.

In general, I'm not crazy about denying children the simple, easy things in life like meats and playing football on the road. Rather give them the full choice as a child and let them pick their own restrictions later in life, if and when they want.

While I will answer frankly when the child asks why I'm not eating meat (without getting philisophical or complex of course), I won't tell the child that enjoying the food is bad or wrong.

Geordie_Girl

Raminahobbin wrote:

im not going to deny them...a trip to Mc Donalds with their class.

Off topic but...

Do schools actually do this?! :eek: I find this amazing, and slightly disgusting.

I'm not vegetarian, but I don't eat that crap and (if and when I have kids) there's no way they would either, and they certainly wouldn't go there under the guidance of people that are meant to be teaching them.

Tar.Aldarion

Mareth wrote:

Off topic but...

Do schools actually do this?! :eek: I find this amazing, and slightly disgusting.

I'm not vegetarian, but I don't eat that crap and (if and when I have kids) there's no way they would either, and they certainly wouldn't go there under the guidance of people that are meant to be teaching them.

It's just an example, they could go anywhere and eat with their school on a class trip.

Blub2k4

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

It's just an example, they could go anywhere and eat with their school on a class trip.

It is about one of the worst examples that could possibly have been picked though wouldn't you agree?
Personally I would lobby the school not to do a trip like that for any number of reasons, and I wouldn't take no for an answer. I would refuse to be put in the position of making my kid look like an outsider because I care about what they put in their mouths.
I'm not vegetarian either but find the second posters example really bad and the worst type of meat they could allow.
Good cuts from well tended animals, that's the way to go if you're going to eat meat.

Tar.Aldarion

Blub2k4 wrote:

It is about one of the worst examples that could possibly have been picked though wouldn't you agree?

Dear lord yes, you couldn't pay me to eat in there, in fact in most fast food places.

Personally I would lobby the school not to do a trip like that for any number of reasons, and I wouldn't take no for an answer. I would refuse to be put in the position of making my kid look like an outsider because I care about what they put in their mouths.

A trip like what?
I am assuming it is just a class trip like to a history park or whatever. People have to eat while they are away, you could pack a lunch. However, children would want to go eat out somewhere.

I'm not vegetarian either but find the second posters example really bad and the worst type of meat they could allow.

It's not really supposed to be a true to life example. I take it as, they are going on a school tour, they pop into a place to eat food and as usually teachers just order all the food for the students, she wouldn't like her child to be an odd one out saying no to meat.
The same at a friends party with cocktail sausages being served etc.

Samos

If I can recall back to my halcyon days at school, I'm almost certain that school trips involved eating at McDonald's and other similar Mc****e, but a choice may have been offered, especially when we were older, to go where we pleased. The fact that most kids elect to go to such establishments, says alot about the insidious effect of advertising on children. Surely there must be a law against this shameless exploitation of childrens' naivity when presented with advertising propaganda?

Raminahobbin

wow-reaction much. i just mentioned McDonalds because its the first place that came to mind. it's not like im advocating it, but if my child is with a bunch of their friends, i dont want them to be singled out as the reason all the other kids cant go somewhere. even when i was in second year and we went to Barcelona, we were brought to McDonalds. It was what was done, and if any of you parents thing your child is not going to go to a place like that once or twice you're sadly mistaken, and, to be honest, quite naive.