Am I loser?

brianmc

Alright, I've been playing a while now and I STILL have an AA question.

Scalps game last night.

Blinds 150-300.

My stack - 12150
Villain - 8850

I'm on the SB, villain is on the button.

Folded around to the villain who makes it 900 to go. I look down at AA. The BB is passive and doesn't seem interested.

Call or raise?

Dub13

Raise as you will get no extra info from a call,it could be a button steel or he could have a hand but you need more info.Also raise a bit more than normal as you will be out of position on the next round of betting.

ollyk1

Standard. Loser.

ntlbell

Any reads on the button?

brianmc

ntlbell wrote:

Any reads on the button?

Nope. Unknown player. I was only moved to the table two hands previously.

accensi0n

brianmc wrote:

Nope. Unknown player. I was only moved to the table two hands previously.

another good reason for you to raise.

brianmc

accensi0n wrote:

another good reason for you to raise.

So nobody could justify a flat call? Is a flat call really that bad?

Surely 90% of the time the button is going to bet out again if checked into on the flop? Surely 90% of that 90% of the time he is still behind to my AA?

ntlbell

brianmc wrote:

So nobody could justify a flat call? Is a flat call really that bad?

Surely 90% of the time the button is going to bet out again if checked into on the flop? Surely 90% of that 90% of the time he is still behind to my AA?

I don't think it's that bad at all, if you min-raise re-opening the betting with two people behind you it will scream of KK/AA

if you raise to say 2500 and the button was on the steal you're going to scare him out of the hand.

I have no problems calling here especially against an aggressive button, there'd be plenty of holywood from me tho.

You don't need to raise for 'Information' you have all the info you need in the two cards in your hand.

brianmc

ntlbell wrote:

I don't think it's that bad at all, if you min-raise re-opening the betting with two people behind you it will scream of KK/AA

if you raise to say 2500 and the button was on the steal you're going to scare him out of the hand.

I have no problems calling here especially against an aggressive button, there'd be plenty of holywood from me tho.

You don't need to raise for 'Information' you have all the info you need in the two cards in your hand.

You've accurately described my thoughts on the hand. It played on my mind for a bit because he flopped two pair so when I check raised him on the flop he pushed and I doubled him up.

I still feel my line was ok but I posted it because of the general unanimity of abhorrence it was greeted with when I discussed it with other people.

Anyone else any thoughts?

cardshark202

Calling is not terrible but I would only call if I knew the villian well enough that I figured he would fire on any flop. Against an unknown, I'm re-raising though as I prefer to get as much money in with AA as I can and I want to negate any positional disadvantage I have with my hand. I would re-raise to about 2400-2800 and hope he comes back over the top.

Dub13

What two pair did he flop...?

brianmc

Dub13 wrote:

What two pair did he flop...?

JT

Dub13

If you came over the top of him chances are he would have/should have binned his J10.He had a marginal hand and as I said above you need more info,by calling and not raising you let a lot of button steel type hands see a flop.He took down the pot because of this.

Dub13

double post

brianmc

Dub13 wrote:

If you came over the top of him chances are he would have/should have binned his J10.

That's why I didn't raise him.

Dub13

brianmc wrote:

That's why I didn't raise him.

Plenty of people would also call this pre flop,but when calling you have to thread very carefully on the flop.As I said you are letting a lot of marginal button hands see a flop.Alarm bells should have started to go of when J 10 appeared on the flop as it fits so many button hands.

You will make money with this call in the long run but this was one of the times you took a big hit,therefore looking back on the hand you would have been better off raising pre flop.

ollyk1

look at it from his POV.

I have a stab on the button. The SB who is a known aggressive player (he might know you even if you don't know him) flat calls when he's not priced in and oop. How hard do I have to hit the flop before I give you a lot of action?? Jack high flop ten kicker (in this instance)?? I don't think so. I will continuation bet on almost any flop but you only get all my stack action from two pair or better assuming I'm a reasonable player because of the overpair possibilities. A raise better disguises your hand as it could be a weakly played AK/AQ. So what that in this instance you only make 10% of your stack you don't risk losing 80% without making him pay to outdraw you.

Flat call is bad oop unless you are going to thread very carefully and play this hand small which is bloody unlikely.

Daithio

I don't think flat calling is so bad. The two reasons for reraising with AA are 1) isolating it so you are heads up in the hand and 2) building the pot. The first obviously doesn't apply here as you are already heads up, and the second only applies when you know that the other player has a strong hand, and you want him to get more in preflop with his AK/ AQ in case he doesn't hit, or in case too many overcards come to his TT-QQ. In this case you don't know the player has a strong hand so it's in your interest to let him see a flop and improve, because the vast majority of times even after improving he will still be behind. You just got unlucky.

Hectorjelly

Dub13 wrote:

You will make money with this call in the long run but this was one of the times you took a big hit,therefore looking back on the hand you would have been better off raising pre flop.

??? - A little results orientated maybe?