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AmarilloFats

fitz cash game 1/2. ..there is a guy at the table he's a little drunk, funny and bad..
i have about €500, fun has 300 restaurateur 300

eg. no raise preflop i complete w/ 97 on the turn 3 of us see a board of 5648 i lead out and both call
the river is a king, i have nuts and pot it.. first guy calls( he has a 7) now funny guy re pots it, i pot it both call
first guy has a 7 funny has K6!!!!
he has called raises preflop with Q2o
and on boards of AA78J has bet every street in to AK....

other villain is a well dressed restaurateur.. seems to have a little clue..
I'm in CO with KcKh i pot it after a few limpers..restaurant guy and funny call

flop comes 9cTcJc pots about 40

Funny guy leads for 10

i make it 40

Restaurant guy calls as does fun

the turn brings a 4h

fun guy leads for 100, bigger bet than expected from him ..but he’d consider J2 the nuts here......restaurant guy has the nuts or a draw…fairly sure it’s a draw.. maybe QQ, I don’t think he would reraise me with QQ
Raise, call or fold????wots your plan for rest of hand?

fuzzbox

Push !!!

I prolly just call the 10 on the flop on this board though.

pok3rplaya

fuzzbox wrote:

I prolly just call the 10 on the flop on this board though.

No way, taking away restaraunt guys drawing odds is hugely important with the board the way it is.

raise to pot on the flop, push/pot the turn to remove proper odds for the restaraunt guy and get the fish AI with his (probably) weak hand.

ianmc38

pok3rplaya wrote:

No way, taking away restaraunt guys drawing odds is hugely important with the board the way it is.

raise to pot on the flop, push/pot the turn to remove proper odds for the restaraunt guy and get the fish AI with his (probably) weak hand.

I assume by restaraunt guy you mean Ian W? He's a decent player but a total bluff monkey. I've seen him raise into the nuts a few times in the Merrion. Probably fold the second hand.

fuzzbox

pok3rplaya wrote:

No way, taking away restaraunt guys drawing odds is hugely important with the board the way it is.

raise to pot on the flop, push/pot the turn to remove proper odds for the restaraunt guy and get the fish AI with his (probably) weak hand.

Well this is not true.
It is not hugely important to do anything here.
Our hand is not that strong - an overpair on a JT9 monotone board.
JT9 is smack bang in the middle of the playing zone, so somebody might well have twopair or trips here. Also somebody might have a made straight, or somebody might have a made flush.
Morover, somebody might well have some form of combination draw like QJ, or AcJs that is flipping a coin with us.

We dont need to spend all our stack "protecting" our hand here. We have an ok hand, and we have an ok, but dangerous, draw (Kc).

So, if you raise, you really dont know if you are walking into a big hand, or "protecting" your own hand. So I like keeping the pot small here, and just call.

pok3rplaya

The more cards that come out the weaker our hand gets. With the way our opps play we have very little information about their hands, they could have anything from the nuts, to a draw to J2o. I get my money in early in order to get it in when I have the greatest chance of being ahead and protect what hand I have at the moment. On the turn I beieve we're ahead >50% of the time.

RoundTower

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=22 ?

fuzzbox

pok3rplaya wrote:

The more cards that come out the weaker our hand gets. With the way our opps play we have very little information about their hands, they could have anything from the nuts, to a draw to J2o. I get my money in early in order to get it in when I have the greatest chance of being ahead and protect what hand I have at the moment. On the turn I beieve we're ahead >50% of the time.

If you have no information on their hands, and you dont hold the nuts, or even a big hand, with a big draw to the nuts (you have one out to the nuts), then why do you want to play a big pot?

Protecting your weak hand is not your priority on this board. You should be very concerned that you are beat in 1 or even 2 places.

Do you really think you are ahead if both players get all in with you for the remaining chips?

pok3rplaya

Given the reads I believe its very possible that restaraunt guy is drawing and drunk guy has a weak hand that he thinks is the nuts. So yes, I really think I'm ahead enough of the time to make this +EV. And given that I think I'm ahead, protecting my hand is a high priority.

Hectorjelly

pok3rplaya wrote:

Given the reads I believe its very possible that restaraunt guy is drawing and drunk guy has a weak hand that he thinks is the nuts. So yes, I really think I'm ahead enough of the time to make this +EV. And given that I think I'm ahead, protecting my hand is a high priority.

Protecting your hand is less important than your stack if there is 50 in the pot and 500 in your stack.

pok3rplaya

You don't need to put your whole stack in, just enough to give the other guys bad drawing odds.

Since when is it bad to raise when you think you're ahead?

fixer

pok3rplaya wrote:

Since when is it bad to raise when you think you're ahead?

when you're wrong.

Hectorjelly

pok3rplaya wrote:

Since when is it bad to raise when you think you're ahead?

when you are playing no limit hold em

fuzzbox

pok3rplaya wrote:

You don't need to put your whole stack in, just enough to give the other guys bad drawing odds.

Since when is it bad to raise when you think you're ahead?

You have just created a situation where there is pressure on your whole stack.
Just because the players are less than stellar does not mean that you are ahead.

If you call the flop bet ,then the pot is much much smaller.

Pots grow exponentially through the streets .... this is exaccerbated by multi-way action.

You might be ahead, but you might also be behind. You might have a big draw, but you might be drawing dead/thin.

JT9 montone is a higly charged flop.

AmarilloFats

I called (after much deliberation) the fun guys €100 as did restauranteur.

I called because: well I felt fun could have a bluff...A weak Jack; I thought this was his most likely holding..of course he could also have 2 pair, set, but I reckon he would have reraised me preflop with any pair.....
I was sure restauranteur was on draw, maybe naked Ac...

I can think of arguments for calling raising and folding..

Raise: to isolate Fun and deprive restauranteur of correct odds to draw, and hope our read is right that he has draw.
Call: because we have a RELATIVELY strong hand and like money...we also feel fun could badly misplay river..and also restauranteur hand will be more clear after his turn action.
Fold : it's a dangerous flop. You could be drawing thin or dead. You are OOP against restauranteur

So I think my call was marginal. You Think?
but I could not get away from the fact that I thought FunGuys most likely holding was a weak Jack and restauranteur was a draw....

River was 5d

Fun guy bets out €100
I called, restauranteur folded...

Funguy had J4, he turned 2 pair.
What do you think of my turn call?????

careca

If you thought you were ahead on the flop, theres no reason to believe any different on the turn (regardless of it giving him two pair). You made the right decision (based on results) and just got unlucky on the turn.