First "real bike" advice

ambro25

Hi guys and gals,

I've had a good look of the previous threads, but still I wonder... I'll be sitting the theory next week, then request a provisional A, and I'll be looking at getting my first 'real' bike very soon after that. Am 34, full car license for last 16 years.

I've been learning the ropes of "Bike vs Rest-Of-The-World at commute time" for the past 6 months with an electric moped, and have now got 'The Bike Bug' for good and feel I'm now ready to move on to bigger and better things (well... less laughable anyway ).

So, I understand that I'll need something (i) bigger than 125cc and (ii) not automatic to actually 'sit' the A test as and when, but (i) I doubt I'd be upgrading the bike within 2 years (by which time period I understand that I must apply for the test), (ii) I know that BHP/kerbweight ratio-thing limitation applies to provisionals and (iii) all the same, I don't think it would be wise for me to go for a restricted 600cc or so already... Quite a lot of factors already :rolleyes:

Ideally, style-wise I'd like something 'Hornet' looking (I'm not so hot on race-looking bikes, eg ZZR/VFR, or cruiser-looking bikes, e.g. Dragster/Virago ) and short of that, standard 'scooter' looking.

Any advice, Oh Posters of Bike Wisdom?

subway

bros, bros bros, bros

there the business
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/renwithnell/nt400.jpg

around 2000 will get you,
400cc, learner legal, cheap insurance, 170kmph [at a push ]

i have one and love it.
old bike but will go for a million miles

madrab

subway wrote:

bros, bros bros, bros

there the business
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/renwithnell/nt400.jpg

around 2000 will get you,
400cc, learner legal, cheap insurance, 170kmph [at a push ]

i have one and love it.
old bike but will go for a million miles

all hail lord BROS (or Mattnluke as mine was called )

but you can get 250 hornets, but they are still quite powerfull

ambro25

I seen Bros's aplenty, but also a couple of Honda CB400 Super-Four which I prefer, and I quite like the sound of the Hornet 250.

I understand they're hard to get ahold of, though, as import only

Pigeon Reaper

Try the CB-1. It's the forerunner to the superfour. They're cheap and easy to get parts for. They're not as fast as the superfour also watch out for couriered bikes. You should get one for around 1200 - 2000 depending on the condition

ambro25

What about the Bandit 250? Am I to expect same as the Hornet 250?

250cc seems like the 'right' size, all things considered - not too big as a first 'proper' bike, not so big a step as from 0 (well, 50cc or so equivalent ) to 400cc, still small enough for intra-city commute and traffic...

s10

CHEap
bros are alright ive been on one that was restricted (not nice) & (so common, its a good cheap bike though all thieves have to do is change the reg plate or break for parts never seen again, couries all have them)

PRicey
hornet250 / cbr250 (honda again eh?) nice bike keep you interested in driving. pokey enough, though like the hondas all the poke is in the high revs & u'll never get there in town
(TZR250 yamaha if u have the need for speed then this i'll do the trick.noice bike)

OFFRoad
two good road bikes above ,picking up a second hand bros could be cheap, could have been couried. ( i still love the DT125 and KDX125 KMX125 xt250 trial bikes as beginners bikes lots of poke mid range right where u need it, on the road, not on the race track.and taller than everything on the road, nice for sightseening on country roads as that extra foot lets u see over most walls / cars)

I love the smell of twostroke in the morning

s10

u'll fall asleep on it/ boring incomparrision (so im told & thats enough for me)
could be the A-B 2 year piece of poo that u are looking for if u can get one cheap, u gotta think about the resale, big question is will the shop take it back when u upgrade. & when the lights go green u'll be behind all the bikes

s10

..

Hotblack Desiato

From what I've heard Bandit 250s tend to be troublesome.
Bros is a reliable bike, if you can get one fresh off the crate from Japan rather than some Dublin courier's cast-off.
250 fours are marvels of engineering but don't wake up until about 14000 revs which is less than good about town. A V-twin like the Bros will have much more torque, which is far more important than power except on long stretches of open road.

ambro25

Ninja - thanks for that, re. 4 vs 2 cyls.

And generally, thanks to you all for the pointers.

I'm not that bothered about speed (or even "take off" performance). In my mid-30s with a kid, so just want something to (i) principally go from A (Knocklyon) to B (Leeson St) and back, and (ii) enjoy 'in moderation' some weekends

So yeah, fully agree with advice about 4-cyl. bikes that need to get to top RPM end for something to happen, but then again I doubt I'd be mashing it in town center anyhow (and I'm well past the "gotta burn anyone else at the lights" stage, I'll gladly leave that to the kids ).

Off Road's a no-no, 400cc still seems 'big' to me (as a transition from 50cc), 125cc is a no-no as I'll be trying for A license not A1 and from the posts so far, it's looking like Bandit is not worth any more consideration.

Tomohawk

ambro25, since what you are really looking for is a commuter bike for popping into town, have you considered a 200cc Piaggio Vespa PX200? I am just a little bit older than you and only biking myself since 2003. I legally sat my "FULL A" licence on a px200 and passed last year. They are a great "geared" bike for around town, with good fuel ecenomy and easy maintenance. A Vespa can easily and comfortably carry a pillion! They have style and history in spades... and No I'm not a bleeding mod! They are a blast to drive and will always put a grin on your face beneath your full face helmet. Either get a vespa px200 or get a Yamaha DT175 or road-legal scrambler around the 200-250cc mark!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa
http://www.px200ss.co.uk/
http://www.southsidescooters.com/ This is an Irish site

murphaph

I like scooters myself. I always assumed they were all automatics. Interesting that you get a full A licence for the px200. Do they all have that union flag decal? It's very 'cool brittania' (which i don't find cool, like minis with union flags on the roof and so on-nothing against the union flag or britain, just don't like that whole flag thing as the europeans seem to really like the union flag stuck on things).

Tomohawk

Nah, union jack decals on scooters is just a very british scooterhead thing. Standard bikes don't come that way, its more of a personal customisation thing. A px125 isn't legal for the Irish full A licence test, so try get a px200 if you intend to continue biking in the future. EU emmision laws have effected stopped the manufacture of px200s so any you see in the shops are the last of a kind.

Classic scooters i.e. clutch 'n geared, full metal bodied ones like Vespas (or LMLs or Stellas in the USA) and Lambrettas come in many flavours. You can get a basic stock commuter one, and turn it into a "Mod" scoot, a cutdown, a streetracer, a grasstracker, a chopper and even a Rat. Some scooterists even try combine elements of all the above into their bikes. I personally like cutdowns and rats the best.

check out these jokers http://www.hardlyrideable.co.uk/

Have a look at the "for sale" and "Photo" sections here to get an idea of the look of old and new scooters: http://scoot.net/

batman_oh

of all the 250 4 strokes i wud have the hornet, its definitely the nicest
cbr is a great choice too
dont worry about jumpin to a bros, its actually a good bit less powerful than the hornet and cbr250

Magown3

My vote goes for the Hornet 250 also.

I had one of these as my first proper bike and it was fantastic. Bullet proof reliability, but more to the point it was very tame at low speed/revs which is great for a learner. But then when you've got used to it and you rev the nutts off it all hell breaks loose . The redline starts at 17,500rpm :eek: which makes for a fantastic noise.

The one I had was a real head turner but I hear it's being couriered now...

ambro25

Again, thx for all the replies and the encouragement. I'll be heading to see the beast (Hornet 250) in the flesh... erm, metal... week after next - now that I've passed my Theory Test

Billabong

I may be biased as my first big bike was a BROS but in my opinion you cannot get a better introduction into big bikes. I'll explain with a comparison of your other options.

The BROS is absolutely bulletproof, they can take alot of abuse in particular off the irish all year round bad weather. Ask yourself why is it that all the couriers swear by them. The Hornet is quite reliable but can be very sensitive to the wet weather.

Powerwise the BROS is slightly less powerful than the hornet but only at the insane revs that the hornets power peaks in. V-Twins are all about user friendly power delivery so pretty much wherever you are in the rev range you have the torque to shoot through the traffic with confidence. This is not to say that that the BROS isn't a blast to peak out through the twisties, just take a look at the passionate Hawk-GT (aka BROS 650) following in the U.S. Also in my experience the BROS has a much smoother and controllable reaction to throttle action especially for a newbie.

Ergonomics and comfort are more than adequate for commuting and a 6'3" I never had a problem with regular 100 mile motorway trips and even a dublin to donegal run.

My last two points are largely personal preference.
V-Twins just sound better than the frantic whinny fours. Although the BROS has'nt quite got the fruity rumble of an SV or a Ducati it was the start of my love affair with all things twin.
Whilst the BROS is common as muck in Ireland largely because of the usual reasons (insurance, licencing etc.) it shouldn't be overlooked that a well kept BROS is both beutiful and modern looking even 18 years after its inception, with a twin spar chunky frame, single sided swingarm and better wheels than alot of the bland ones found as standard on alot of new bikes.

My final word is on the infamous Twin Vs Four argument/discussion. If you want to spend your time working your gearbox consistently trying to find the right gear listening to a frantic whine whilst supposedly cruising in traffic at 30mph then by all means go down the four cylinder route and enjoy the extra performance which isn't really gonna help you on real roads anyway.
If you want to enjoy the experience of a V-twin rumble whilst slipping through traffic with your slimmer frame, whilst still having all the performance you'll ever need in the real world ands lets not forget if we're going to get into performance that the ducati team were so successful because of the V-twin ability to maintain better traction on the track.

batman_oh

well if u want to go into performance end of things when has a vtwin ever won a moto gp race?
ducati moto gp run a v4
twins have nice tractable power yes, but the ducatis dominated WSB because they were running against 750 I4's and later restricted 1000s
ive nothin against them personally but they arent the be all and end all

murphaph

What about the single cylinder bikes?

Prenderb

You could consider the BMW F650 or the Aprilia Pegaso, both IMHO great bikes. Also consider something like the Kawasaki ER5, or Honda CB500? Both are reasonably bulletproof - which is why I bought one...And they come factory restriced for real genuine group 5 quotes. And they're Irish bikes, so you'll be able to buy parts easier (I can be corrected if wrong on this!). It also means that you get about 20 extra horses 2 years later - for free!!! (well, cost of derestriction notwithstanding)

2142

I owned a Hornet 250 for the last 3 years and never had a problem with it. I would definately recommend one. The nicest looking bike in that category in my opinion and loads of fun

Magown3

Give us an auld update there Ambro. Have you seen, test rode or bought anything yet?

ambro25

What do you know? Got myself a fan club, by the looks

Seriously, got *ver* busy with work and home lately and just not had much time to devote to this, however... trawling through the forum's recent posts, I've noted Leef23 may be selling his Hornet 250 shortly (so I've posted in the appropriate thread a moment ago ) and since I'm notoriously hard to make up my mind, I'm also looking at 'super-scooters' (Majestys 125/250, Burgmans, X9 etc.)...

Popeleo

You can do your A test on an automatic, but you're restricted to driving automatic bikes with it - same as doing your B test with an automatic car.

I did my test on a Yamaha Tmax (500cc) and it's marked on your competency cert as a restriction.

Scoops

ambro25 wrote:

So, I understand that I'll need something (i) bigger than 125cc and (ii) not automatic to actually 'sit' the A test

Can you not sit the A test on a 125? A suzukie GN 125 to be precise!

Popeleo

Scoops wrote:

Can you not sit the A test on a 125? A suzukie GN 125 to be precise!

Don't think so I'm afraid - I was going to do it a few years ago on a Majesty 125 (actually 124cc), but the wording regarding the A test said ABOVE 125cc.
If you're waiting for a test, check it out before you waste another decade waiting for a test if you go up with the wrong bike.

Hotblack Desiato

Scoops wrote:

Can you not sit the A test on a 125? A suzukie GN 125 to be precise!

No. You could do the category A1 test on it but that only licences you for bikes up to 125cc.
To get a full licence on a larger cc bike you have to take the test on a bike over 125cc.

Scoops

Feck!! I applied for the A test last November and I'm still waiting for a date, I didn't realise I needed a bigger bike to do the test on!! How can I do the A test? Do I need to apply for an A provisional licence first, I only have an A1 Provisional at the moment! Can I go above 125cc with that licence? Is it not to do with power as opposed to cc's? I need help!!

Popeleo

Scoops wrote:

Feck!! I applied for the A test last November and I'm still waiting for a date, I didn't realise I needed a bigger bike to do the test on!! How can I do the A test? Do I need to apply for an A provisional licence first, I only have an A1 Provisional at the moment! Can I go above 125cc with that licence? Is it not to do with power as opposed to cc's? I need help!!

Last November? Sure you'll have gone through a few bikes before the test comes up!

Seriously, look at your licence - the A1 section says equal to or less than 125cc

The power to weight ratio only applies to the A licence.

I presume you'll have to get a provisional A.

Yep, you'll need a prov a licence. Ask your local training centre about renting bikes for the test. I did my full A test on a test centre owned er5. It's a very forgiving bike.

Scoops

Popeleo wrote:

Last November? Sure you'll have gone through a few bikes before the test comes up!

Seriously, look at your licence - the A1 section says equal to or less than 125cc

The power to weight ratio only applies to the A licence.

I presume you'll have to get a provisional A.

Thanks Popeleo, do you know how long the average wait time is?

Scoops

baz8080 wrote:

Yep, you'll need a prov a licence. Ask your local training centre about renting bikes for the test. I did my full A test on a test centre owned er5. It's a very forgiving bike.

Thanks baz, an er5??

Sorry for the vagueness! A kawaksaki er-5, 500cc parallel twin commuter bike. A lot of test centres use these as the bike they do the 'A' licence training on. It'll be restricted to 25Kw and it's by no means a monster as it has very gentle power.

edit: one big thing you have to look out for is the steering geometry on the bike. It'll be a lot different to your gn125. This will be important when you are doing the u-turn part of the test so make sure to get a good bit of practice in on whatever bike you will be using for the test.

http://www.onyerbike.net/2004/kawasaki/er5.htm

http://www.r-herbig.de/images/umbauten/er5-2.JPG

Popeleo

Scoops wrote:

Thanks Popeleo, do you know how long the average wait time is?

For a rough guide, have a look for the test centre you applied for on www.drivingtest.ie
and have an ironic laugh. I'm waiting for a car test for over 10 months.

Can any of you guys get a letter from work to say that your licence is important to your job? I got my car test in a month because I needed it for a summer job (and had documentation to prove this) last year.

Scoops

Hmm, well now I don't want to get my test date quickly as I don't have the correct provisional licence or bike for the test I applied for, I'm going to have to apply for an A provisional and updgrade my bike!! I'll be saddled for the insurance The ER5 is a good looking bike, I haven't come across it before.

babybundy

i reckomend the honda varadaro 125 its a 4-stroke its an excelent bike for learner but you would want to be at around 5'6 as its a high seat its also got the cheap insurance its a v twin with twin carb so its nippy too