Deportations and illegal aliens

Thirdfox

Hmm... it seems interesting how the Government can plead with the Americans to let the illegal aliens (who are Irish) stay in America whilst illegal aliens here are sent packing. See the Irish Times http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2006/0406/breaking82.htm

What hypocrisy - what does everyone else think?

maidhc

Not all of us have subscriptions to Ireland.com, nor have colleges to pay for same!

I'm not sure if there is a hypocrisy though. We are extremely liberal in how we have allowed accession state citizens into the country, and I think this is a good thing. I have the pleasure of meeting a few polish guys and they are sound out and hard workers. But you have to drawn a line in the sand somewhere, and I guess if non EEA nationals dont meet the criteria for asylum then so be it.

I dont Bertie is pleading too much with GWB about the Irish illegals when if the truth be told he would be quite happy to have them home.

Our man in Havana

The Americans should have a round up and have special one way flights to Ireland. Sauce for the goose etc.

Thirdfox

Well it's not only about the Government pleading but also about how the newspapers portray them, with headlines like - distraught family plucked from residence and forced back to Ireland. The same attitude don't seem to apply to distraught people who are forced back to their native countries too (even if they have children who are Irish citizens!)

maidhc

Thirdfox wrote:

The same attitude don't seem to apply to distraught people who are forced back to their native countries too (even if they have children who are Irish citizens!)

But what do you do? Let everyone judicially review their refugee application, and then agree they have been here challenging their doubtful claim so long they should be allowed stay even if there is a finding against them?

Mind you I dont feel sorry for the illegals in America either.

Perhaps if someone has been in a country for 6-10 years and paid tax and so forth they should have a legitimate expectation to be allowed stay.

Thirdfox

Not feeling sorry for the illegals everywhere is a part of what I mean - people should either say that we can deport illegals immigrants or we should offer them amnesty etc. but what really bugs me is that people say one thing for "foreigners" and yet expect different treatment for themselves.

Eru

I agree somewhat but you yourself are falling into a trap.

There is a world of difference between the current 'illegals' in America and the various nationalities within Ireland.

For example, the 'illegals' in America are not claiming asylum or any other protection, they are merely there past their visas. As a result they are hiding from the government and not entitled to any assistance.

Now personally I think big girls and boys need to accept their punishment and if that means a plane home well then that what it means.

In Ireland we have a dozen types but the main 3:

Asylum seekers, these people are covered under the Geneva convention and are claiming persucution in their homeland.

Refugees, these people are allowed stay in Ireland because they are being persecuted.

Legal, applied and granted permission to live and work within Ireland.

Now the interesting thing here is that people are arriving from African nations (Nigeria being number 1) and claiming asylum by walking into GNIB on Burgh Quay.
These people are supposed to claim asylum at the first instance within the first safe country. Please show me where a Nigerian can obtain a direct flight or service to Burgh Quay? They cannot and therefore their claim is already based on lies.

Moving on, if their application is rejected they are eventually removed from the state in about 50% off the cases. Whats interesting is that only about 20% are actually taken back too their own country. the majority are actually 'transfered' to the first safe nation they encountered. Usually France, England or Holland and they can apply there.

On a personal level I believe any person willing to come here and work hard to make a living deserves a chance. Lets face it, we have enough spongers of our own.

Sizzler

Thirdfox wrote:

Hmm... it seems interesting how the Government can plead with the Americans to let the illegal aliens (who are Irish) stay in America whilst illegal aliens here are sent packing. See the Irish Times http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2006/0406/breaking82.htm

What hypocrisy - what does everyone else think?

Ehhh ....NO! If wanting to start a discussion on this might be useful if you compare apples with apples. The ppl that are looking for amnesty in the USA worked their rollix off, they arent sponging off the state. Big Mickey McD is playing by the rules, hes getting rid of those people here that were UNSUCCESSFUL in applying for residence, I think you will find the majority of punters getting flown out on McDowell airways (funded by me and you) were still being supported by the state right up till they got the knock at the door. Thats not the case with the Irish in the US. So get it right.

Thirdfox

Are you suggesting that the people deported from Ireland do not want to work and contribute to society? What about the fact that some of their children are Irish, we can just deport them too?

If people are "sponging" off the state then we should deport them? What about homeless people?

Most people who are residing illegally in Ireland cannot work because to apply for a work permit would result in them being deported - it's a vicious circle. Of course I accept that some people come here for our social welfare but I would believe that the majority of people would work if given the chance.

Looking at it pragmatically (not looking at our moral/ethical duties) what scenario is better: people working in Ireland and improving our economy or sending people back to the countries where they came from (at taxpayer's expense)?

Edit: so I would take it that any illegal Irish immigrants in America who use their social welfare system should be sent packing?

maidhc

Thirdfox wrote:

Looking at it pragmatically (not looking at our moral/ethical duties) what scenario is better: people working in Ireland and improving our economy or sending people back to the countries where they came from (at taxpayer's expense)?

I think we have made a policy decision to source our extra labour from European countries. You have to have some form of immigration controls, as inhumane as they may seem at times.

I reckon most Irish illegals would leave rather than use the US social welfare system!!!

Sizzler

Thirdfox wrote:

Are you suggesting that the people deported from Ireland do not want to work and contribute to society? What about the fact that some of their children are Irish, we can just deport them too?

If people are "sponging" off the state then we should deport them? What about homeless people?

Most people who are residing illegally in Ireland cannot work because to apply for a work permit would result in them being deported - it's a vicious circle. Of course I accept that some people come here for our social welfare but I would believe that the majority of people would work if given the chance.

Looking at it pragmatically (not looking at our moral/ethical duties) what scenario is better: people working in Ireland and improving our economy or sending people back to the countries where they came from (at taxpayer's expense)?

Edit: so I would take it that any illegal Irish immigrants in America who use their social welfare system should be sent packing?

LOL...NO! Did I say that? I dont dispute punters would work given the chance...unfortunately we find ourselves getting raped by the averaged jonny foreigner tho cos its too damn handy.