Acts of God.

Hagar

What exactly are "Acts of God"?

Are the laws of the land not supposed to be independent of any and all religions?

Could insurance compensation be denied to the victim of a religiously motivated act such as a bomb if the bomber claimed to be acting on the instruction of his god?

Thanks.

hullaballoo

Where did you hear that the laws of the land are supposed to be independent of religion?

Hagar

The Constitution.

"The State guarantees not to endow any religion" *May not be word perfect.

I am assuming they are talking about not endowing religion with anything, either credence or money.

I know, I know, never assume, that's why I asked.

Amazotheamazing

Do you mean Force Majeure? "Acts of God" doesn't literally mean that God is acting, it's an expression for unforeseen (poss unforeseeable?) events/events which could not be controlled by either party.

besty

The Irish Constitution deals with religion under Article 44;

Religion

This is the relevant part of Article 44:

2.2°: The State guarantees not to endow any religion.

2.3°: The State shall not impose any disabilities or make any discrimination on the ground of religious profession, belief or status.

2.4°: Legislation providing State aid for schools shall not discriminate between schools under the management of different religious denominations, nor be such as to affect prejudicially the right of any child to attend a school receiving public money without attending religious instruction at that school.

2.5°: Every religious denomination shall have the right to manage its own affairs, own, acquire and administer property, movable and immovable, and maintain institutions for religious or charitable purposes.

2.6°: The property of any religious denomination or any educational institution shall not be diverted save for necessary works of public utility and on payment of compensation.

This article means that there may not be discrimination between the different denominations and that children have the right to attend state aided schools without attending religious instruction. In practice, certain time periods may be set aside for religious instruction and the parents have a right to withdraw the child at these times. However, the nature of the curriculum is such that there is not generally a rigid divide between subjects and the school ethos tends to pervade all subjects.

It has been argued that the article means that a child may not be refused access to a publicly funded school on the basis of the child's religious beliefs.

Educational establishments in Ireland are subject to the Equal Status Acts 2000-4. (Educational establishments in this context refers to preschools, primary, post-primary, an institution providing adult, continuing or further education, a university, third level or higher level institution whether or not they are publicly funded.)

Under Section 7 of the Equal Status Act 2000 denominational schools are permitted to refuse to admit non co-religionists in certain circumstances.
_____________________________________________________________

As for your question, I think that Acts of God are deemed to be naturally occurring events, e.g. tornado

Amazotheamazing

Acts of God aren't limited to naturally occuring events, a war for example, might not be naturally occuring but it might qualify as an act of God.

I reiterate, it's an old expression, it isn't specifically tied to religion.

Hagar

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Do you mean Force Majeure? "Acts of God" doesn't literally mean that God is acting, it's an expression for unforeseen (poss unforeseeable?) events/events which could not be controlled by either party.

I am aware the Force Majeure is French for "force beyond control" but as long as the term used is "Act of God" is there not an implication that God is involved? How many other legal terms say something clearly and then claim it means something else?

Amazotheamazing

You're getting caught up in obsolete language, it's more often referred to as force majuere even in english now. It doesn't actually mean God is hanging around, messing with your plans, or even that the law thinks God is hanging around, messing with your plans.

Sizzler

I posted a similar question yesterday on the motors page where a mates motorbike had blown over during the night and dented a dudes car.The guy is now looking for 200 yo yos off him. The wind blew it over, my friend didnt dent it on purpose.An act of god! <snipbecauseyou'renotallowedseeklegaladvice> And to cap it off, the damage on the bike was more damaged than the car !

Amazotheamazing

<snipbecauseyou'renotallowedgivelegaladvice>

Sizzler

Id plead innocence on it I have to say and hope the guy got sick of chasing me about it ! Shocking eh !

Mr_Roger_Bongos

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Acts of God aren't limited to naturally occuring events, a war for example, might not be naturally occuring but it might qualify as an act of God.

I reiterate, it's an old expression, it isn't specifically tied to religion.

Are you having a laugh?! When could a war be qualified as an 'act of god'! An act of god cannot be man made, or instigated by man's decisions. An act of god in the majority of cases are naturally occuring events, e.g. Floods, Earthquakes, Drought, Hurricane's, Tornadoes, Tsunami's etc. All of which,but not limtied to, for insurance purposes are considered 'Acts of God'.

EDIT
Definition 'Act of God' - A manifestation especially of a violent or destructive natural force, such as a lightning strike or earthquake, that is beyond human power to cause, prevent, or control.

Amazotheamazing

Act of God (Law), an inevitable accident; such
extraordinary interruption of the usual course of events
as is not to be looked for in advance, and against which
ordinary prudence could not guard.

Not all definitions insist act of God must be some natural event (look I can google too!!), I'm pretty sure there is case where a business contract was rendered unenforceable by the outbreak of war but the courts held that the war was an act of God.
It could be however, that the defintion of Force Majeure, which is somewhat broader than act of God, has been misinterpreted when it came across into international usage, and the above case was using act of war incorrectly as a synonym for the broader force majuere. I admit I'm no expert, it's been a while since I studied the area.


Hullaballoo, sorry, I didn't think I was offering him advice, I intended solely to point out the above scenario (now removed) wasn't an act of God. Sorry 'bout that.

besty

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Hullaballoo, sorry, I didn't think I was offering him advice, I intended solely to point out the above scenario (now removed) wasn't an act of God. Sorry 'bout that.

Mods, in general, but especially in this forum need to err on the side of caution. That's all.

Mr_Roger_Bongos

We can compare definitions all night if you want (but im tired)(im also overjoyed that you can use google, its a great search engine). I realise there are various definitions, that's why i said "the majority" and "not limited to" natural events.

My issue was classing War as an 'Act Of God' How can a man made event, ever be considered an 'Act of God' (and i know god doesn't have to be involved) , i'd be extremely surprised if a court found so, or that it wasn't appealed and overturned as rubbish!

Obviously, find the case and ill be proven wrong. Its happened before, ALOT and may happen again.

Amazotheamazing

Well the point is that the intervening event was so unlikely as to be completely unforeseeable, the event itself needn't be natural, just completely and utterly unexpected, far beyond the scope of normal dealings as to be incomprehensible. A war could qualify, an extreme example might be an atomic bombing, hardly something that could ever be considered in the normal course of events.

Mr_Roger_Bongos

In your 'case' a contract, im assuming, was unenforcable due to the outbreak of war. Im not really sure as to how 'An act of god' came into it, other than for insurance reasons or a claim of some sort. I would guess that in the past people have attempted to take a case, for insurance, on the basis that an event falls inside the 'Act of God' clause (according to their policy).

The point i want to make is that War and an 'Act of God' aren't considered the same, and for insurance purposes are stated seperately. I would also assume that something like an atomic bomb, as you suggested, would be an Act of War and so considered under War. Again, i realise that 'An Act of God' is not just a natural event, but what your describing -

the intervening event was so unlikely as to be completely unforeseeable, the event itself needn't be natural, just completely and utterly unexpected, far beyond the scope of normal dealings as to be incomprehensible

- would be a force majeure, NOT an 'Act of God'


EDIT - OMG ITS 1.33a.m., WTF AM I DOING WITH MY LIFE!! CURSE YOU BOARDS.IE, CURSE YOU!

NUTLEY BOY

Act of God aka VIS MAJOR is basically an event that is beyond the control of human intervention.