Recent Gang Activity

pretty-in-pink

With gun activity on a meteoric rise, and more and more innocent people getting caught up in the cross-fire, can anyone see a viable solution to this?

Is anyone actually surprised by the rise in gang violence, heck the rise in the number of gangs around?

Do these people think Ireland is South Central now or something?

mike65

With every import of drugs comes a consignment of guns. If their was no market for drugs there would hardly be an illegal pistol in the state.

Mike.

Dave!

Or if the government was importing the drugs ... but that's a little off-topic

I'm fairly shocked at all the organised crime lately actually, especially the 3 securicor (or similar) vans being robbed.

Dades

Call me cynical but I think a lot of the "meteoric rise" in gun activity is to do with the media. Every time the Garda discover a cartridge in a stolen car, the story gets more airtime than a car bomb in Iraq. It seems to have become a national obsession.

Yes there have been tragic circumstances recently, but for the most part it's scumbags waving guns at each other.

Kell

naughty_girl wrote:

Do these people think Ireland is South Central now or something?

Who knows. What they do know is that the liklihood is that no matter what it is they do, they'll get away with it. As a criminal quoted in the Indo on Sunday said "you would have to be a completely fúcking mad or stupid criminal to do time in this country".

There is no single point of blame. You could point a finger at the Gardai and say "you arent doing your job". Sadly they are under resourced to do their job. Against the mob of gun wielding criminals that is now Ireland, Gardai are horribly out numbered and out gunned. We also have far too leniant laws when it comes to serious crime.

Kell's vision of the brave new world is that the cops be kitted out with guns & up to date kevlar stab proof and bullet proof vests (all of them inc. the pen pushers for when terminator crashes into the cop shop) as statistics show that even armed police fire extremely rarely.

Secondly, adopt the line that if a cop has a gun pointed at them, they shoot the criminal and shoot to kill. Fúck this hurting shít.

West Dublin was a hive of joy riders a number of years ago and thanks to a committed cop programme coupled with a minimum term for joyriding, joyriding is a common day rarity in this part of Dublin. You shoot enough criminals, they'll get the message. *Or it'll start a war.

K-

*Think I have just shot myself in the foot.

the real ramon

The problem is solely down to drugs. Before drugs there was fcek all crime.

This problem has a supply side and a demand side. The demand side would be partly sorted out with stiffer sentences for possession, education and more Gardai with more powers.

The supply side comes down to the fact that farmers in Asia and Latin America can make a living from growing drug crops whereas they can't from growing food produce or tea/coffee etc. This could be solved by land reform in Latin America especially where large haciendas own most of the land with landless peasants working on them for a pittance. take the land away from the haciendas and give them to the peasants and allow them to unionise so they can demand a price from the corporations higher than that they would get from growing coca for instance. this however would require a concerted, worldwide co-operative effort.

A concerted worldwide effort to tidy up the loopholes as regards gun legislation would also go a long way to solving the gun problem

Can't see any of this happening anytime soon though:(

Anarchy seems to be where we're heading unless we cop-on:(

Dades

the real ramon wrote:

Anarchy seems to be where we're heading unless we cop-on:(

Um, I think that's a mild overstatement.
It you want to see anarchy - look at Iraq.

miju

simple solution, a better manned, more visible rapid response unit

it's like gun crime hotspots in the UK where it got out of control for a while and was brought back under control by the visibility of armed police, the criminals know if they use guns then the police are not far away who are also armed and who will respond

in my own personal opinion, the army should be utilised more in this country for roadblocks / armed checkpoints (you see em about finglas / glasnevin quite a bit) they do feic all else while sitting in there barracks, the government are paying their wages why not get the best possible out of em, i realise it's strictly not their role but it's a very plausible and easily implemented idea

Bottle_of_Smoke

Kell wrote:

Kell's vision of the brave new world is that the cops be kitted out with guns & up to date kevlar stab proof and bullet proof vests (all of them inc. the pen pushers for when terminator crashes into the cop shop) as statistics show that even armed police fire extremely rarely.

There's this place called America, kind of adopted your idea. Now they have the highest gun murder rate in the world.

Secondly, adopt the line that if a cop has a gun pointed at them, they shoot the criminal and shoot to kill. Fúck this hurting shít.

Most cops don't enjoy\find killing as easy as much as that statement implies. If someone points a gun at a cop they tend to have backup too.

West Dublin was a hive of joy riders a number of years ago and thanks to a committed cop programme coupled with a minimum term for joyriding, joyriding is a common day rarity in this part of Dublin. You shoot enough criminals, they'll get the message. *Or it'll start a war.

K-

*Think I have just shot myself in the foot.

When did I miss cops gunning down joyriders:P?Heh, dude were you being ironic this whole time?

If you were I'm gonna be extremely embarrassed....

Bottle_of_Smoke

the real ramon wrote:

The problem is solely down to drugs. Before drugs there was fcek all crime.

This problem has a supply side and a demand side. The demand side would be partly sorted out with stiffer sentences for possession, education and more Gardai with more powers

Education's proven itself not to work, it's easy to get away with doing drugs(Police reckon they confiscate 10% of illegal drugs) so stiffer sentences would only work on an unlucky few. Not enough to make the majority change.

Would you give stiffer sentences to Cannibis users for possession? If you would then you're out of order, how can you see it as logical to punish someone further for doing something that only harms themselves.

More Gardai - Yes, any more Power - NO
If you're gonna come out with the argument "no possession means no dealers" I beg you to consider that it would just mean harmless people in prison & dealers running prostitution\protection rackets instead. Look beyond the Evening Herald.

People operating in markets for legal goods and services tend not kill each other at near the rate of people operating in markets for illegal goods and services. Correlation is most likely linked with causation here.

Just an observation.

daveirl

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homah_7ft

Deleted User wrote:

People operating in markets for legal goods and services tend not kill each other at near the rate of people operating in markets for illegal goods and services. Correlation is most likely linked with causation here.

Just an observation.

Yay. When do I get my legal gun?

bigcock

A local man and his family are in a pub one day, his son accidently spills a drink at a nearby table- the father being responsible goes over and offers to replace the drink - the diseased scum at that table later mash his head between the doors of the pub and queue up to take penalty kicks at his head ( really take a run back and run up and kick this decent man in the head as the others hold him down) the same scum that get to breathe air on this world get away from the guards as nobody will testify ( rightly so , as nobody should put their familys life in danger ) the man who was attacked is on deaths door and will never be the same. I ask a question , The disease ( the scumbags) will always be a disease on humans, they look like humans but are a disease ( this is not a Nazi speach ) . I will gladly pay money for professional soldiers to blow this scum into the next toilet bowl but then again I pay taxes to look after their human rights .

I do not belive in retibution but this happened on St Patricks Weekend in Rush ,Dublin by non-locals , the Scum involved are currently selling drugs and killing people for a laugh and are not under arrest.

if there is a mercenary group of ex-soldiers out there who will accept a job to blow this scum away then I will gladly contribute , there are no morals invloved as this is an uncurable disease that no moral liberal nonsense can expalin - they are uncurable and lost to rehabilitation - just blow these ****ers away quickly and try to save any poor bastard kids they have.

the first politician brave enough to stand up and say - I will blow these ****ers into the next millenium will get my vote. The best comedy in Ireland is surely the Legal system , these clowns ( wannabe child molester Judge curtain has cost the taxpayer - my hard earned money - 2 million quid - ) I have 0% faith in this legal system and it is things like this that makes shinners get more votes - )

So to recap - the guards are pointless , the legal system is a pompous greedy bunch of idealists , the Justice minister is useless , the Government is aimless and the Church is on its knees -

The only one above capable of keeping us sane for our kids is ( hard to believe ) is the Church as they have a clue what they are about and will be around long after the cowards have cashed in their taxpayers pensions.

So have a little faith in yourself to be a better person so you can pass on what is means to be a Man/Woman who has may have to witness the frustration of being right in a Country with greedy cowards running the show ( the politicains and the Scum) , they will always be present until we - the silent majority do nothing , the canvassers will be coming to your door soon , shout your head off at them cos I will ,and when nothing changes start your own party , I'd love to

Honest Regards

Bigcock

Kell wrote:

Who knows. What they do know is that the liklihood is that no matter what it is they do, they'll get away with it. As a criminal quoted in the Indo on Sunday said "you would have to be a completely fúcking mad or stupid criminal to do time in this country".

There is no single point of blame. You could point a finger at the Gardai and say "you arent doing your job". Sadly they are under resourced to do their job. Against the mob of gun wielding criminals that is now Ireland, Gardai are horribly out numbered and out gunned. We also have far too leniant laws when it comes to serious crime.

Kell's vision of the brave new world is that the cops be kitted out with guns & up to date kevlar stab proof and bullet proof vests (all of them inc. the pen pushers for when terminator crashes into the cop shop) as statistics show that even armed police fire extremely rarely.

Secondly, adopt the line that if a cop has a gun pointed at them, they shoot the criminal and shoot to kill. Fúck this hurting shít.

West Dublin was a hive of joy riders a number of years ago and thanks to a committed cop programme coupled with a minimum term for joyriding, joyriding is a common day rarity in this part of Dublin. You shoot enough criminals, they'll get the message. *Or it'll start a war.

K-

*Think I have just shot myself in the foot.[/QUOTE

A

Asiaprod

The police, for what ever reason, cannot cope with the current situation, and the politicians as usual don’t seem to want to do anything about it since they have a cushy job already. Therefore, don’t vote the politicians back into power unless they have shown that they tried to do something constructive about the problem during their term of office. Instead of the police use the Irish Army, your taxes pay for them and they are supposed to protect the country in times of war or civil disorder, and I word certainly call people running around with guns a time of civil disorder. The Army are better armed and are trained to deal with these type of individuals, and as they are not currently fighting any war, you can give them something positive to do with all that training that again tax payers have paid for. Assume anybody with a weapon will use it. If they do not surrender immediately, shoot to kill. Since the current prison system does not seem to be a deterrent, initiate a military-style court. Revoke any possibility of probation for serious offenders and dealers. Give all other offenders a single chance and provide them with a state run compulsory detox program. If they screw it up have a mandatory prison sentence that is activated the moment they deviate. And to really hammer the issue home, place all offenders in a military-run prison. Hell, even bring back Chain-gangs and have them do something positive for society.

the real ramon

I don't think its unreasonable to think that the legal system has swung too far in favour of the criminals and that stiffer sentences and more powers for the gardai would go a long way to redressing this and thus bring down drug use and associated crime. I don't think thats particularly an evening herald position on it. I would include cannabis users in this as well. it's an illegal drug don't forget and thus provides an awful lot of fuel for the crime associated with drugs.

i don't think things can continue as they are and i can't see any other viable solution other than to swing the legal system back the other way at least a little bit. And i would think this applies to other aspects of law and order as well: too large an amount of reported rapes are going unpunished and I read of case after case in the papers and on the news where the punishment doesn't seem anywhere near fitting the crime to me.

the real ramon

the real ramon wrote:

I would include cannabis users in this as well. it's an illegal drug don't forget and thus provides an awful lot of fuel for the crime associated with drugs.

Would legalising it not be better idea?

I think it would be a waste of resources to lock people up for using cannabis in the their own homes.

Bottle_of_Smoke

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

What if they don't believe what they're doing isnt wrong. They're not harming anyone directly. Why should they follow the rules if the rules are draconian/pointless?

I don't include Heroin in this view myself. I draw the line as Heroin leads directly to other crimes (people on heroin will mug people\steal to feed a habit even if they'd never stolen anything before the habit) This doesn't happen with dope\pills\shrooms even coke usually.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

bonkey

the real ramon wrote:

The problem is solely down to drugs. Before drugs there was fcek all crime.

When, exactly, was "before drugs" ???

SteveS

Deleted User wrote:

Would legalising it not be better idea?

I think it would be a waste of resources to lock people up for using cannabis in the their own homes.

Good point. In the US, we tried outlawing alcoholic beverages in the early 20th century, as many saw it as the source of some major problems. It seemed that many people didn't agree with this approach. Since there was a huge demand and no legal supply, organized crime stepped in and met this demand. All sorts of crime saw a huge rise as these gangs fought it out with police and each other.

The authorities did many of the things that were suggested here. Gun laws were passed, the FBI was given more power, and police started carrying machine guns (including surplus military arms from WWI). They didn't seem to work and the US gave up on being a "dry" country. Crime saw a decrease, though organized crime moved on to different trades (such as drugs).

I am not suggesting that legalizing drugs will make crime go away, but I do know that the war on drugs in the US has not been a success. This country spends billions on enforcement, social programs and treatment programs and we still have drug related crimes.

the real ramon

SteveS wrote:

I am not suggesting that legalizing drugs will make crime go away, but I do know that the war on drugs in the US has not been a success. This country spends billions on enforcement, social programs and treatment programs and we still have drug related crimes.

On reflection I'd agree. I wouldn't legalise drugs, but humans seem to have a need or desire to intoxicate themselves, so it's unlikely drugs will ever go away. How to deal with the problem though...that's different.

Incidentally, when I was a teen (in the late 80's - am I that old!) the prevailing view was that only stupid losers going nowhere with their lives smoked cannabis. no-one at all would have taken cocaine. why people are more willing to take risks and use more dangerous intoxidants these days I can only guess at. Maybe a study's been done!

Bottle_of_Smoke

A lot more supply & greater population wealth(there's your demand) perhaps.

denismoy

Do doctors in Ireland give perscriptions for antidepressants and other drugs that people would use as recreational drugs easily or are they strict about it?Alcohol was the drug of choice there when I left in 79,but that did'nt seem to have changed much the last time I was there a about a year ago.That is people still seem to drink alot.

the real ramon

denismoy wrote:

Do doctors in Ireland give perscriptions for antidepressants and other drugs that people would use as recreational drugs easily or are they strict about it?Alcohol was the drug of choice there when I left in 79,but that did'nt seem to have changed much the last time I was there a about a year ago.That is people still seem to drink alot.

not sure about use of prescription drugs as recreational drugs, never heard of it in Ireland, but alcohol yes, a lot still, and a fair amount of illegal drugs like cannabis especially, but also a fair bit of amphetamines, extacy and cocaine depending on the social set. not any higher than any other western country, not by much any way (except in alcohol!)