2 live tournament hands.

NickyOD

Hand 1:

Final table of a 70 player tournament with 5 left. You are second in chips and only slightly covered by the villain who is a good player. The other 3 players at the table are extrenely bad shortstack players and very exploitable.

Blinds are 5K/10K. The action is folded to the Villain in the SB who completes and you check on the BB with Q4o. Flop comes 3-Q-5 with 2 diamonds. He checks you check. Turn is the Jack of diamonds. You dion't have a diamond. Villain bets 15K, you decide to raise to 40K, Villain immediately moves all in and you have about 70K left. Call or fold?

Hand 2:

Early in a €300 50 player live multi with blinds 50-100. Your table is quite tough with several good tight aggressive players. The Villain in this hand has been quite active, has won all the pots he's raised so far but hasn't shown down any hands.

After one player limps in EP the villain raises to 375 one from the Cutoff and you decide to smooth call in the small blind with QhQs. Everyone else folds. The flop comes 4h-9h-3d. You check and the villain bets 600, you raise to 2000 and the viallin goes all in. You started the hand with 8.5K and the villain has you covered by 2K. Call or fold?

The_Flyer

The first one looks like a pretty straight forward fold to me. You haven't committed too many chips into the pot & you're unsure about your opponent. Also, you're still in 2nd with 3 short stacks so still alive!

2nd one is tougher. I.M.O it comes down to whether you're a gambler or not. early stages though and already alot of chips in the pot. Fold and you could be under a bit of pressure soon enough. I'd probably call here thinking he's got AK or similar. It's a tough one though. What did you do anyway?

ianmc38

1st one call. it looks like a bluff trying to represent the flush.

2nd one i call and probably go busto.

JoeyJJ

1st is a fold imo, representing a flush probably doesn't have it but i would stay clear too dangerous in your situation and you will have time to outplay him later.

2nd, player may have trips but prob another over pair, tough fold with your over pair, would have to in the situation myself to see if i can get any read. 60/40 towards a call.

Iceman78

First one, i think you may have been better off just calling his bet on turn unless you were willing to commit all your chips with your hand. Once you are reraised, i think you have to fold considering your comments on the 3 short stacks. If you feel that these can be exploited, i think you should fold and try to pick on these instead of going all in now.

Second hand, i think you played badly pre flop. Think you should have reraised as this would have given you a better idea of where u are now. I think you may be ahead but its down to whether you want to risk your tournament now with an over pair. I think i would call in this situation though but i may be wrong.

WH BONNEY

1. Fold

2. Not sure why you didnt reraise preflop.:mad: :mad: But now, you have a flop that looks good, i'd take my chances & call. You dont need me to tell you but flat calling with queens will always leave you with big decisions post flop.

cardshark202

1: Bet the flop/flat call the turn. Fold Now.

2: Fold, looks like AA or KK to me, although villian won't put you on QQ and could be making this play with JJ or maybe even TT.

Gholimoli

first hand:
i think villain has a pair below Q and high dimond card.
if you fold you have 70 left but with them blinds i dont think 70 is that much.
also for what you said of the villain if you fold it will give him a big chip lead and you will fall in to the short stack category and from there on it will be short stacks waiting for other short stacks to bust.
everything considered i think i would call.

second hand:
though one really.what would he raise with and then make that move with?
if he raised with a low to mid PP then 3 of them PPs have just made a set.
if he raised with a higher pp than yours(not likely) then your behind.
if he has something like AKh i think your ahead but prob a slight underdog.
i think with the blinds being what they are you have alot of time to play so folding is prob best.

StraddleFor6

The Q4 hand is a tough one. Having played with the villain on a number of occasions and watching the hand play out, I would believe I'm in front with the Queen. I would think the villain had a Jack and a diamond.

Marq

1/ Bet the flop, it's your best chance of winning the hand with your weak one pair. As it played out, probably fold, though as someone else has mentioned you could be ahead of a Jack with a diamond.

2/ Very nice flop, I would have led the flop here, looking for a raise from the Villian. as it played out, I think it's 50/50 as to whether you're ahead here. Re-raising pre-flop would have given you a lot more information to help you play this hand out of position. HAving said that I would often smooth call here, but then I'd lead the flop.

fuzzbox

I think I fold the first one - but I suck

I call the 2nd one because I have under-represented my hand preflop, so he could do this with a wider range than AA/KK/set.

spectre

Hand 1: If the villain had two diamonds, would he have semi-bluffed the flop? If you think this is likely then I don't believe that he has made his flush and I call. If you fold you are SB next hand, after that you have just over 4 orbits of this short handed table and in very bad shape. Not betting the flop was a critical error imo, you were probably ahead but are extremely vulnerable.

Hand 2: Preflop, you have a strong hand but are out of position against a good player who has showed strength, I think a reraise is paramount here. As it stands, you are hoping that he is on JJ or 1010 or AK. AK(h) is favourite to beat you but you have the odds to call. All other reasonable holdings are ahead of you. You're still in good shape if you fold here. I fold.

Culchie

1. Don't like the turn re-raise on the first hand, and really digs a hole for yourself. I'm guessing he has JQ for a two pair, with 4 diamonds.
however having dug the hole though, it really looks like you are beat here, swallow the medicine and fold and move on. I can't see how I can justify a call here, damn that medicine tastes bad.

2. I would have re-raised preflop and bet the flop...I Call... smells of a set of nines though and we go bust:( It's a 50/50

RoundTower

I fold both hands. I like your play in the second hand but I really don't like it in the first hand.

NickyOD

I was the Villain in both hands. Straddlefor6 was my oponent in the Q4 hand which I played quite poorly.

Since we have played together so often I should have folded to his reraise because it was one of those, "I know, that you know that I know that..." situations and he made a good call. I had JT. I think 95% of the time my oponent folds here but I should know better than to try and get someone who can often see through me to fold.

In hand 2 I had made a decision at this table that I was going to play very aggressively from the start and raise with almost anything when someone limped into the pot to take advantage of my position over the limpers and the blinds. I had 3h4h so postflop it was a race but I still think his play is very poor. My range after the flop is basically AA/KK/AhKh/55/99/33 or Xh3h .

fuzzbox

NickyOD wrote:

I was the Villain in both hands. Straddlefor6 was my oponent in the Q4 hand which I played quite poorly.

Since we have played together so often I should have folded to his reraise because it was one of those, "I know, that you know that I know that..." situations and he made a good call. I had JT. I think 95% of the time my oponent folds here but I should know better than to try and get someone who can often see through me to fold.

In hand 2 I had made a decision at this table that I was going to play very aggressively from the start and raise with almost anything when someone limped into the pot to take advantage of my position over the limpers and the blinds. I had 3h4h so postflop it was a race but I still think his play is very poor. My range after the flop is basically AA/KK/AhKh/55/99/33 or Xh3h .

You never have TT/JJ here? Ever ?

JoeyJJ

NickyOD wrote:

Hand 1:

You are second in chips and only slightly covered by the villain who is a good player.

Self Praise...

NickyOD

fuzzbox wrote:

You never have TT/JJ here? Ever ?

No Never. I fold JJ/TT to the check raise.

fuzzbox

NickyOD wrote:

No Never. I fold JJ/TT to the check raise.

Even though your table image is "has been v.aggro, has won lots of pots, has never shown down cards" ?

You never think that A9 is c/ring you here? What about 88 ... looks like a good spot for 88 to make a play, or 77 ?

Do you lay QQ down too?
Why do you decide to play KK/AA to a c/r, but not TT/JJ?
Obv AA/KK are ahead of QQ-TT, but your opponents range should expand in conjunction with your aggression, right?

Please tell me more, cos I suck at tourneys.

NickyOD

fuzzbox wrote:

Even though your table image is "has been v.aggro, has won lots of pots, has never shown down cards" ?

You never think that A9 is c/ring you here? What about 88 ... looks like a good spot for 88 to make a play, or 77 ?

Do you lay QQ down too?
Why do you decide to play KK/AA to a c/r, but not TT/JJ?
Obv AA/KK are ahead of QQ-TT, but your opponents range should expand in conjunction with your aggression, right?

Please tell me more, cos I suck at tourneys.

Like I said I was at a table of good players. When I look at the preflop callers position I'm pretty sure he is reraising me preflop with AA and KK only when the blinds are this small. Despite my table image I seriously doubted anyone was playing back at me without a strong hand. If I'm in his shoes I play QQ exactly the same. While JJ and TT are definitely possible I think he probably leads this flop with TT. Whether or not he would paly Jacks the same is hard to say but I'm pretty sure he's not putting a quarter of his stack in without Jacks or better. If I was holding Queens this hand I'd have a very dificult decision. I'd have to ask him if he had a swedish grandparent and if he said yes I'd assume he smooth called me preflop with Kings and fold.

fuzzbox

So even though you have been speeding .... they still never play back at you without JJ+ on this flop ......

Really ?

NickyOD

fuzzbox wrote:

So even though you have been speeding .... they still never play back at you without JJ+ on this flop ......

Really ?

Except for one other player, that's how tight the table was playing.

fuzzbox

NickyOD wrote:

Except for one other player, that's how tight the table was playing.

Then no need to gamble with 3h4h !!!

If you know he has JJ+, then why not smooth call in position? You have 5 paid outs (the 4s and the 3s), and 9 other outs, that you *might* get paid on.


PS - I realise that this might sound a little rich coming from a guy who has been posting several hands that he pushes with bluffs/semi-bluffs lately

NickyOD

fuzzbox wrote:

Then no need to gamble with 3h4h !!!

If you know he has JJ+, then why not smooth call in position? You have 5 paid outs (the 4s and the 3s), and 9 other outs, that you *might* get paid on.


PS - I realise that this might sound a little rich coming from a guy who has been posting several hands that he pushes with bluffs/semi-bluffs lately

I'm not gambling. Forget about the hand that I raised with preflop and consider how else I should paly this hand after the flop. I'm putting my chips in with a pair and a flush draw which is a race against an overpair which I knew my oponent had. I only need him to fold a small percentage of the time for this to have been a very profitable move. Also on this kind of table full of fairly solid players I'm less inclined to sit back and wait for big hands since even if I do get them I'm not likely to get paid off. By being very active early on I managed to find a good edge with this hand. giving up that edge is just plain silly. The fact that so many players in this thread said they would fold Queens to me only strengthens the argument for pushing.

fuzzbox

I understand that you dont need him to fold a better hand v.often to turn a profit with your play. So - if you are speeding (which you have been), and he can play back at you with less than stellar hands, then you can push here and he will fold a lot of hands that are better than yours (88/A9/77, maybe TT and so on).

However - you have put this guy on a stellar hand - JJ+. Thus his propensity to fold is much reduced. This reduction in FE is bad for your hand ... however with the reduction in FE, comes an increase in "stackibility" if a good card comes on the turn/river (especially turn).

You can prolly bluff the Aces, maybe the 9s???, get paid on the 3s and 4s and "sometimes" get paid on the hearts.

I've no problem with pushing, and if I was oop, then push would be my favoured option. But with 14 outs and position, perhaps calling is worth considering.

NickyOD

fuzzbox wrote:

I've no problem with pushing, and if I was oop, then push would be my favoured option. But with 14 outs and position, perhaps calling is worth considering.

He's got 1/4 of his stack in the pot at the moment. If he leads a brick on the turn he's probably betting 2500 leaving more than half his stack in the middle. I think there's a better chance I can get him to fold on the flop. I don't think he'd believe that I'd slowplay KK/AA or a set. A turn push would look even more like a steal so If I smooth call and he checks the turn should I take a fre card? To be honest I don't think I would have gotten one which is why I fwelt I should push or fold the flop.

fuzzbox

NickyOD wrote:

He's got 1/4 of his stack in the pot at the moment. If he leads a brick on the turn he's probably betting 2500 leaving more than half his stack in the middle. I think there's a better chance I can get him to fold on the flop. I don't think he'd believe that I'd slowplay KK/AA or a set. A turn push would look even more like a steal so If I smooth call and he checks the turn should I take a fre card? To be honest I don't think I would have gotten one which is why I fwelt I should push or fold the flop.

Pot if you call the flop is 4750. If he bets 2500 on the turn, then you easily have pot odds to call and see a river. If you miss, then you end the hand with less chips, c'est la vie, but if you hit then you most likely stack him. And if he bets 2500 on the turn, then you probably get paid the rest of his stack if you hit a heart.

I cant see how its push or fold if you have to call 1400 to win 3150 and have 14 outs and position. In fact folding would be a mistake given these odds.

NickyOD

fuzzbox wrote:

Pot if you call the flop is 4750. If he bets 2500 on the turn, then you easily have pot odds to call and see a river. If you miss, then you end the hand with less chips, c'est la vie, but if you hit then you most likely stack him. And if he bets 2500 on the turn, then you probably get paid the rest of his stack if you hit a heart.

I cant see how its push or fold if you have to call 1400 to win 3150 and have 14 outs and position. In fact folding would be a mistake given these odds.

With the chips that are already in the pot after his check raise I'd prefer to either get off the pot there and then or force the decision back on my oponent, than shutting down. One thing I hate doing is calling off such a large perecntage of my chips on a draw with the intention of folding when I miss. I don't think I can justify a call for 2500 on the turn since a 3 or a 4 are the only cards I can get any more of his chips with.

fuzzbox

NickyOD wrote:

With the chips that are already in the pot after his check raise I'd prefer to either get off the pot there and then or force the decision back on my oponent, than shutting down. One thing I hate doing is calling off such a large perecntage of my chips on a draw with the intention of folding when I miss. I don't think I can justify a call for 2500 on the turn since a 3 or a 4 are the only cards I can get any more of his chips with.

Well you have 2.5:1 pot odds right now (1400 to win 3400 or so). You have 14 outs, so you are winning by making the call, regardless of implied odds.
On the turn - you can still call the 2500, as you will have immediate pot odds of about 2:1, but once again, 5 of your outs, are paid (aka you have implied odds on 5 cards). You may get the rest of his chips on the river if a heart comes.

Finally - if an Ace falls off ... then wont he believe that you are likely to have the nut-flush draw .... so he might check, you can bet and win the pot with a bluff ... this would give you 19 cards with which to win the pot. 4 bluff cards, 5 paid cards, and 9 flush cards.

The problem with pushing, is that you put him on such a strong range of hands, that he is not very likely to fold.

Pushing has merit, but perhaps a call, in position, with such a nice draw might be worth considering?