Agnostic Conversions

NUTLEY BOY

Have any of you agnostics ever converted to believers ?

If so, what happened to cause it ?

I should define my terms.

I define an agnostic as one who does not assert belief in the existence of God but who is open to being persuaded.

I see agnostics as being totally different to atheists.

I define an atheist as one who positiviely asserts that God does not exist.

robindch

> I define an agnostic as one who does not assert belief in the existence
> of God but who is open to being persuaded.

Most people would define the terms rather more as follows:

• agnostic - somebody who claims not to know whether a god exists or not
• theist - somebody who believes or asserts that a god (or gods) exist
• atheist - somebody who believes or asserts that a god (or gods) do not exist
• [apatheist - somebody who doesn't care whether or not deities exist]

> Have any of you agnostics ever converted to believers?

It's far more common for people to abandon religious beliefs (generally acquired during childhood), rather than acquiring them. Of the few cases where I have seen strong religious beliefs sprout in previously barren territory, it generally seems to happen during some awful life-crisis or other - divorce, death of spouse/kid, serious illness etc.

In my case, philosophically, I'm an agnostic, though a functional atheist. And short of having chunks of my brain sawn off and dropped in the bin, or one seriously resonant 'shroom trip, I can't imagine any conditions under which I'll be acquiring any religious beliefs any time soon.

pH

Have any of you agnostics ever converted to believers ?

Not sure they'd still be an agnostic if they'd 'converted', and hence the question doesn't seem to make sense.

If you explicitly mean 'converted to Christianity' then try the Christianity forum - I'm pretty sure I've read posts there about people who have become believers later on in life (though I make be wrong!)

robindch wrote:

In my case, philosophically, I'm an agnostic, though a functional atheist.

Et tu, Brute?

Asiaprod

pH wrote:

If you explicitly mean 'converted to Christianity' then try the Christianity forum - I'm pretty sure I've read posts there about people who have become believers later on in life (though I make be wrong!)

I believe that Excelsior converted from Catholic to Atheist back to Christian later in life, you could ask him in the Christianity forum.

Scofflaw

wolfsbane does say he was an 'unbeliever' before he realised the truth - you could also ask him. On the other hand, given wolfsbane's rather strict definition of 'believer', he could easily have been Pope before he was saved.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Doomspell

I use to be...well christian I suppose, but that was by force. Although we never went to mass (except christmas/weddings/funnerals ect) I was never baptised or anything. But it was still assumed that I was Christian. When I went into secondary school I didn't do religion because I just couldn't believe that, god and all that was real. So you could say I 'converted' to agnostic, while I don't believe in christian god, I do believe that there might be something out there I just haven't got it figured out yet. So that does nothing to answer your question but anyway:D

Alex S.

I think CS Lewis did. And he explains his rational in 'Mere Christianity'.
Also, I have heard many people in jail convert to Christianity.
Good luck.

Beruthiel

NUTLEY BOY wrote:

I define an agnostic as one who does not assert belief in the existence of God but who is open to being persuaded.

Persuaded?
No, I disagree with the use of that word, I believe agnostics require logical, rock hard proof, no scientific doubt whatsoever, of any such existance.
Agnostics understand that it is not possible to know everything there is to know about the universe and thus keep an open mind.

Scofflaw

Alex S. wrote:

I think CS Lewis did. And he explains his rational in 'Mere Christianity'.
Also, I have heard many people in jail convert to Christianity.
Good luck.

Possibly because conversion is taken to a sign of serious reformation of the character, which improves your parole chances.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Funsterdelux

You can buy agnostic conversion kits at any Atlantic homecare store, or send a SAE to the Vatican, they re easy to use and come with an applicator.

ScumLord

You always hear of people converting back to religion in America especially in prisons. I think that most people if there honest with them selfs will always have that nagging feeling in the back of there mind that there must be God no matter how much they protest and only turn away from the orginised religions because they feel betrayed or something by the lack of magic and angel aperiences.

No, I disagree with the use of that word, I believe agnostics require logical, rock hard proof, no scientific doubt whatsoever, of any such existance.

There's always doubt and rock hard proff is just a phrase used for very likely to be true. As far as we know it's still just as likely some God type thing created the universe as not. In fact I'd say there's more evidence that there is a God.

Owen

Can't see what would pursuade someone to start believing in imaginary friends ... I suppose if you're brainwashed since birth to think there is an invisible man in the sky, that it doesn't matter if people are bad to you, because heaven is a happy place where you can meet everyone who died, and the bad people get punished for being mean to you ...

Hello? People? Do you not recognise a fairy tale when you hear one?

Funsterdelux

ScumLord wrote:

You always hear of people converting back to religion in America especially in prisons. I think that most people if there honest with them selfs will always have that nagging feeling in the back of there mind that there must be God no matter how much they protest and only turn away from the orginised religions because they feel betrayed or something by the lack of magic and angel aperiences.

Wow, there horsey, do you have this "nagging feeling", coz I dont I dont know many atheists who do either. I dont protest against any religion, I might try to convey how its a sham, I didnt turn away from religion I just stopped, when I coped on it was just a tool for power and control, thats had its day, not for the lack of proof or angel appearances.

HealingBlight

robindch wrote:

Most people would define the terms rather more as follows:

• agnostic - somebody who claims not to know whether a god exists or not
• theist - somebody who believes or asserts that a god (or gods) exist
• atheist - somebody who believes or asserts that a god (or gods) do not exist
• [apatheist - somebody who doesn't care whether or not deities exist]

(x) Completely misread that. :P
You can only really shift between gnosticism/agnosticism and theist/atheist because there concern different matters.
So I guess you can have agnostic atheist fence-sitters (who just refer to thier gnostic state when asked) get converted into some sort of theism.

Dades

HealingBlight wrote:

Errr, I think the atheism you described was strong atheism.

Not sure about that. Surely a weak atheist believes "that a god (or gods) do not exist"? Where belief doesn't have to mean convinced beyond all doubt.

HealingBlight wrote:

You can only really shift between gnosticism/agnosticism and theist/atheist because there concern different matters.

I think we've seen in this forum the definition of "god" can be the difference between an atheist and an agnostic. Therefore I would suggest closer than you think. In reality you can shift between any of the beliefs you mention, and more.

ScumLord

Funsterdelux wrote:

I dont protest against any religion, I might try to convey how its a sham, I didnt turn away from religion I just stopped, when I coped on it was just a tool for power and control, thats had its day, not for the lack of proof or angel appearances.

But your basing your disaproval on the modern religious institutions (well modern in that their around in modern day) like the catholic church. The human brain has got a portion of it dedicated to religious/spiritual thought that's why I'm saying everyone has that niggeling feeling when it comes to God.

Every human society in the past 70,000 years has had some sort of belief in a higher power, each one has interpreted this higher power in a different way but most seem to believe it's good and that it wants us to live good lives too. It could just be a part of basic human behaviour that helps us form close social bonds on large scales but ether way religion is an important part of human culture.

You are in your own way being biased and one sided, religion has had it's positive influences. The whole one God theory would have been a great move towards unity in it's day moving from Gods fighting it out for power to one God, one way, we're all the same under God. To say it's a sham is clearly wrong, the major religions may have corupted it to suit their own goals but that's another storey.

Funsterdelux

ScumLord wrote:

But your basing your disaproval on the modern religious institutions (well modern in that their around in modern day) like the catholic church. The human brain has got a portion of it dedicated to religious/spiritual thought that's why I'm saying everyone has that niggeling feeling when it comes to God.

Every human society in the past 70,000 years has had some sort of belief in a higher power, each one has interpreted this higher power in a different way but most seem to believe it's good and that it wants us to live good lives too. It could just be a part of basic human behaviour that helps us form close social bonds on large scales but ether way religion is an important part of human culture.

You are in your own way being biased and one sided, religion has had it's positive influences. The whole one God theory would have been a great move towards unity in it's day moving from Gods fighting it out for power to one God, one way, we're all the same under God. To say it's a sham is clearly wrong, the major religions may have corupted it to suit their own goals but that's another storey.

Ok lets get things straight, I know that there is a part of the brain that is "dedicated" to religious experiences, but more in some and less in others, like a lot of the other parts of the brain. Its something that evolved, to aide our social dynamics and order. some people took advantage of this "state of mind" to gain power and control over the majority.

Sure there is a lot of positives in an organised religion, but the negatives surely outweight them at this stage, Religion nowadays especially in the western world is just a tradition, culture, people dont live by what their respective religion's tell them too, i think its plain to see that.
Unity what frigging unity, we have 3 major religions that sprouted from the same seed yet they are at lager heads with each other, theres this one "god" now.

So in essence, religion has had its day, I think we are evolving away from it the way we evolved into it, wether its a good thing or not its a matter of opinion.


Anyway whats this got to do with Agnostic Conversions

Dades

Funsterdelux wrote:

So in essence, religion has had its day, I think we are evolving away from it the way we evolved into it, wether its a good thing or not its a matter of opinion.

Who exactly is evolving away? A look at the world news doesn't suggest to me there's much movement away from organised religion. Ireland, and Europe maybe - but after that I wouldn't be so sure.

Funsterdelux

The Atheist wrote:

Who exactly is evolving away? A look at the world news doesn't suggest to me there's much movement away from organised religion. Ireland, and Europe maybe - but after that I wouldn't be so sure.

Its a slow progress, its more prevalent in developed countries, (exception USA), evolution doesnt happen over night, unless your in the movies.

ScumLord

Funsterdelux wrote:

Anyway whats this got to do with Agnostic Conversions

I don't know you brought it up.

I still think trying to convince people to move away from religion/spirtuality towards something similar to comunisim where the state is all knowing, all powerful will be bad for the species. Just as letting religion be all powerful is bad.

I think we have different expectations of what we can get from religion you think it's mind numbing. I think it's mind calming and is specificaly for helping people respect eachother, I know that's not what happens but that's what it's for IMO.

Don't think I'm part of any religious group by the way, I'm not I see religion as a kind of health tool for the mind.

Might even start up me own religion, I wonder how hard would it be to pull off a Jesus act??

Funsterdelux

ScumLord wrote:

I don't know you brought it up.

I still think trying to convince people to move away from religion/spirtuality towards something similar to comunisim where the state is all knowing, all powerful will be bad for the species. Just as letting religion be all powerful is bad.

I think we have different expectations of what we can get from religion you think it's mind numbing. I think it's mind calming and is specificaly for helping people respect eachother, I know that's not what happens but that's what it's for IMO.

Don't think I'm part of any religious group by the way, I'm not I see religion as a kind of health tool for the mind.

Might even start up me own religion, I wonder how hard would it be to pull off a Jesus act??

I agree with you that it has a mind calming effect, its just the whole organised religion thing Im on about, I dont care what people do in their own time, its their business, Im not a communionist either,
I just think it should, in some distant future be treated like a past-time/hobbie.

condra

Its a slow progress, its more prevalent in developed countries, (exception USA), evolution doesnt happen over night, unless your in the movies.

Id be carefull not to describe it as evolution because it is not affecting reproduction. Personally I think its more of a cultural shift, i.e. humans would be the same without religion. But regardless, I see your point.

Im delighted to see religion on the decline in many countries, but extremely worried to see Christian fundamentalism growing at such an alarming rate in the worlds most powerfull [and f**ked up] country.