Channel 6 sidebars on some programmes

rogue-entity

I supposed you may have noticed the annoying black bars on the side of the US programming when shown. For example, that movie "Get Shorty" they showed on launch-day, it had side bars during the movie, but none during the ads or there own programming. I wonder if this has anything to do with converting from NTSC to PAL but fracking it up in some way. I noticed this "glitch" on the analogue feed so it may not be present on the digital version. And I only as I have NTL in Waterford, it may not be on the channel on the other networks.

Any ideas?

Lochaber

I noticed on NTL analogue cable (widescreen tv) in Dublin, during Law & Order, that there were thin black bars on the sides and the top and bottom. On our 4:3 tv there were no bars.

According to this post they are broadcasting in 14:9 on analogue and 16:9 on digital... Something to do with that? I'm afraid I'm not entirely up on aspect ratios...

marksi

Sounds like they were broadcasting a 4:3 copy of the film as 14L12, which would result in small black bars all round. The size of the balck bars would depend on the amount of cut-off on your tv.

Irishdudedave

Those black bars were there because Channel 6 only broadcasts in 16:9 widescreen. They do not switch back to 4:3 when 4:3 programmes are on, so to fill the screen when a 4:3 programme is showing they have to place those bars on the side.

decies

it doesn,t do them any favours thats for sure:rolleyes:

Freddie59

Lochaber wrote:

I noticed on NTL analogue cable (widescreen tv) in Dublin, during Law & Order, that there were thin black bars on the sides and the top and bottom. On our 4:3 tv there were no bars.

According to this post they are broadcasting in 14:9 on analogue and 16:9 on digital... Something to do with that? I'm afraid I'm not entirely up on aspect ratios...

You are correct of course.:) If, as someone mentioned earlier, 4:3 was being transmitted in a 16:0 aspect ratio the images would mere;y look stretched. They're transmitting in 14:9. Extremely annoying on a widescreen TV. RTE do the same with Home & away, but the ads are not 14:9! Same as on Channel 6.

father_ted9t9

Irishdudedave wrote:

Those black bars were there because Channel 6 only broadcasts in 16:9 widescreen. They do not switch back to 4:3 when 4:3 programmes are on, so to fill the screen when a 4:3 programme is showing they have to place those bars on the side.

At the Moment channel 6 is broadcasting in 16x9 on NTL Digital Service and 14x9 On Ntl Analogue Service. The Reason as many have pointed out is because of the Original Material being in 4x3. This should be stretched or "Arked" to fill the 16x9 screen but at the moment it is just getting sorted out. This will stop happening in the near future. Teething problems happen everywhere at the start up but it will work itself out soon.:)

watty

4:3 SHOULD NOT be arced, the animorphic flag should be turned off and the 4:3 transmitted normally.

When ARCing 4:3 to 16:9 you can
* Window box: Unchange content and compress lines losing resolution and having black bars either side.
* Crop top and bottom to 14 x9. Small black border
* Crop top and bottom to 16x 9. no black border but savage loss of top & bottom of screen.

ANY of these is SILLY. They should only ARC 16:9 material to 14:9 letterboxed on 4:3 analog. 4:3 material is already correct for analog and is NO problem on Digital. Only HDTV needs ARCed 4:3 as it has no 4:3/16:9 animorphic switching.

These C6 people obviously do not know that an Analog network and Digital network need separate feeds and that 4:3 material should be left as is.

father_ted9t9

watty wrote:

4:3 SHOULD NOT be arced, the animorphic flag should be turned off and the 4:3 transmitted normally.

When ARCing 4:3 to 16:9 you can
* Window box: Unchange content and compress lines losing resolution and having black bars either side.
* Crop top and bottom to 14 x9. Small black border
* Crop top and bottom to 16x 9. no black border but savage loss of top & bottom of screen.

ANY of these is SILLY. They should only ARC 16:9 material to 14:9 letterboxed on 4:3 analog. 4:3 material is already correct for analog and is NO problem on Digital. Only HDTV needs ARCed 4:3 as it has no 4:3/16:9 animorphic switching.

These C6 people obviously do not know that an Analog network and Digital network need separate feeds and that 4:3 material should be left as is.

I Dont think you know what you are saying... If an image is 4x3 and it is to appear on a 16x9 transmission it Can to be ARCED UP TO FILL THE SCREEN. This has been done on some of the programmes 6 are broadcasting and they are fine. noone has even noticed, Sure you lose some of the picture from the top and bottom doing it, but at least its in a 16x9 window. and doesnt have nasty bars. Channel 6 is broadcasting from their tx in 16x9, NTL Are arking to 14x9 for the reason that they are broadcasting on analogue and digital. It will be rectified soon, as has been already said a number of times on these boards, the teething problems will be worked out soon.

watty

father_ted9t9 wrote:

. If an image is 4x3 and it is to appear on a 16x9 transmission it Can to be ARCED UP TO FILL THE SCREEN. This has been done on some of the programmes 6 are broadcasting and they are fine.

IT is supidity of the first order, far worse than Pan/scan crop of Widescreen for 4:3 as it at least is shot with safe zone.

ANY decent WS set can cope with non animorphic 4:3. BUTCHERED 4:3 does no favor to 4:3 set owners or 16:9 set owners.

It is not a question of Knowing What I Am talking about. I'm expressing an opinion. You ARC 16:9 material for non-animorphic analog feeds. To ARC 4:3 material for main Animorphic feed and then letter box or do nothing for non-animorphic feed is stupid and thoughtless.

But then many WS watchers set their WS tellys to "fill screen" for everything, often even with a digital set-top box set to 4:3!

So why should I worry?

doh.ie

No Irish broadcaster has gotten its widescreen switching element completely correct - certainly not RTE who have been doing it the longest. Their movies and several dramas (ER comes to mind) are always arc'ed incorrectly for terrestrial and Sky.

Saw some of Channel 6's over the last week (don't get the channel, have Sky) and the incorrect ratios would put me well off if they remained wonky long-term. Just as well House, Prison Break and some of the other shows are available elsewhere.

The transmission feed NTL are receiving from the UK should arrive in as 16:9 for digital (when 16:9 material is on), as 4:3 when 4:3 programming is on (Dawson's Creek, early Buffy, early Charmed, early Everwood and 70% of C6 material will be 4:3) - so it makes no sense to crop these. They should be presented *in their original form*. Most widescreen TVs will retain the width and the picture will still look fine (i.e. it won't drop back to 4:3, but present as a faux widescreen). This 16:9 for w/s and 4:3 for non w/s programming should be the signal received by NTL for Digital.

Likewise, a 16:9 arc'ed to 14:9 should be received for analogue when 16:9 programming is on, and otherwise it should be 4:3. Extra work, maybe, but at least the programmes would look as their makers intended. (Pretty fussy me about how my TV shows look.)

I suppose this would be a bad time to say the C6 logo is too intrusive...!

Lochaber

doh.ie wrote:

I suppose this would be a bad time to say the C6 logo is too intrusive...!

I've gotta say, the logo is the one thing that I actually think looks quite well, it's reasonably transparent and while it might be better if it was slightly more transparent at least it's only the top part of it that's intrusive.

Perhaps if the transparency was even and at the level of the lower right hand quarter it would be best but I quite like that it's positioned at the top right hand of the screen because at least then it can disappear into the sky sometimes!

On the whole I think it's much less intrusive than the new TV3 DOG and smaller than RTÉs ones.

Freddie59

watty wrote:

IT is supidity of the first order, far worse than Pan/scan crop of Widescreen for 4:3 as it at least is shot with safe zone.

ANY decent WS set can cope with non animorphic 4:3. BUTCHERED 4:3 does no favor to 4:3 set owners or 16:9 set owners.

It is not a question of Knowing What I Am talking about. I'm expressing an opinion. You ARC 16:9 material for non-animorphic analog feeds. To ARC 4:3 material for main Animorphic feed and then letter box or do nothing for non-animorphic feed is stupid and thoughtless.

But then many WS watchers set their WS tellys to "fill screen" for everything, often even with a digital set-top box set to 4:3!

So why should I worry?

On a similar topic, just noticed that NTL are transmitting widscreen on the Four Irish and Four UK channels on NTL digital!:D

Gadgie

Freddie59 wrote:

On a similar topic, just noticed that NTL are transmitting widscreen on the Four Irish and Four UK channels on NTL digital!:D

Finally! Unfortunately however any 4:3 material broadcast on these channels is still being cropped and zoomed. Will they ever get it right?!

Mossy Monk

Freddie59 wrote:

On a similar topic, just noticed that NTL are transmitting widscreen on the Four Irish and Four UK channels on NTL digital!:D

TG4 is widescreen?
what programmes?

watty

All material produced by and for TG4 since start has been made in 16:9 though they didn't have any WS TX till recently on DSAT

Mossy Monk

watty wrote:

All material produced by and for TG4 since start has been made in 16:9

i know that but i havent seen anything in w/s on it. good to know they are doing it now. must keep an eye out

Charles Slane

watty wrote:

All material produced by and for TG4 since start has been made in 16:9 though they didn't have any WS TX till recently on DSAT

When did they start widescreen on DSAT? And what programmes are they? I haven't seen any yet (although I don't watch it too much because my knowledge of the Irish language is minimal). I was under the impression that they hadn't moved to widescreen on satellite.

Charles Slane

watty wrote:

All material produced by and for TG4 since start has been made in 16:9 though they didn't have any WS TX till recently on DSAT

Still haven't seen any TG4 widescreen on DSAT. Have I missed something or are you wrong Watty?

watty

I haven't looked.

All material produced by and for TG4 since start has been made in 16:9 though they didn't have any WS TX till recently on DSAT

Is misleading... They didn't have any WS last I looked (recently). I thought someone else said it had started.

Mossy Monk

yes someone did say it was happening on ntl

Freddie59 wrote:

On a similar topic, just noticed that NTL are transmitting widscreen on the Four Irish and Four UK channels on NTL digital!:D

Gadgie

It's only RTE One and Two that are transmitting in widescreen, although TV3 and TG4 are sometimes incorrectly zoomed and cropped by the ntl digibox (along with a few other channels).

celticfc

Lets get this straight...


TG4 - Do not broadcast in widescreen on any platform.

RTE One & Two - Broadcast in widescreen on both ntl digital and Sky. (Unsure about Chorus)

TV3 - Only broadcasting in widescreen on Sky currently, still 14:9/4:3 on ntl & Chorus.

Channel 6 - Broadcasts in widescreen on ntl digital. (Unsure about Chorus)

watty

And TG4 plan to be WS, having commissioned and produced everything in WS since they started. Eventually you will get the repeats in WS

Freddie59

watty wrote:

And TG4 plan to be WS, having commissioned and produced everything in WS since they started. Eventually you will get the repeats in WS

Sorry folks.:o Hands up.....I meant only RTE 1/2 & Four UKs.

decob

celticfc wrote:

Lets get this straight...
RTE One & Two - Broadcast in widescreen on both ntl digital and Sky. (Unsure about Chorus)

chorus analogue it's 14:9lb

celticfc wrote:

Lets get this straight...
Channel 6 - Broadcasts in widescreen on ntl digital. (Unsure about Chorus)

chorus analogue 4:3 centre cut/pan scan whatever it's call it's annoying and s***e.

Scobie

Yes, all of Channel 6's 4:3 material seems to be pillarboxed. I suspect that they only supply one feed to the likes of NTL who transmit it as received on Digital, and ARC it to 14:9 for Analogue. Very unsatisfactory on both platforms. The decision to pillarbox would seem to be a Channel 6 decision. I don't quite understand why they can't supply each format "as is". Maybe someone could enlighten me. If it's 4:3 LEAVE IT ALONE!