Thoughts on this 750W PSU?

Richard Dower

http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Power/ToughPower/W0117/w0117.asp#

Been waiting for details, four 12V rails with 18Amps a pop, nice modular cable management...think i might get one.

BadCharlie

Richard Dower wrote:

http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Power/ToughPower/W0117/w0117.asp#

Been waiting for details, four 12V rails with 18Amps a pop, nice modular cable management...think i might get one.

Looks nice but i would not buy a Thermaltake PSU.

SouperComputer

"tough atomic energy"

b*locks

I think they have stooped to new lows.

Also, maybe im smokin crack, but I can see any modular cable management.

Richard Dower

And why the hell not buy TT?...they have quality power supplies.

SouperComputer

*opens can of worms*

Richard Dower

But like do any of you TT haters actually OWN a TT power supply?...i do, has afforded me a year of good service and zero issues.

Sometimes you have to get down and dirty and USE something rather then listen to what people say. My purchasing decision is gonna be based on experience of using a TT PSU and reading some reviews when they appear online.

Not some snobby notion that only and $500 PCP&C joint is the way to go.

conzy

It looks good on paper but I wouldnt buy at thermaltake PSU, Ive seen to many bad reviews.

Why do you need 750watts:eek:

An enermax liberty 620watt would be better and is surely enough for whatever you are going to throw at it, SLI, Raptors in raid.........

Stephen

I've heard nothing but bad things about them, much like qtec. Haven't used a thermaltake myself but have used a qtec in the past and have seen first hand the crap that they supply.
Why would all the reviews about thermaltake be wrong, whilst all the ones about qtec are right?

I like my Hiper 580W modular psu.

uberpixie

Richard Dower wrote:

But like do any of you TT haters actually OWN a TT power supply?...i do, has afforded me a year of good service and zero issues.

Sometimes you have to get down and dirty and USE something rather then listen to what people say. My purchasing decision is gonna be based on experience of using a TT PSU and reading some reviews when they appear online.

Not some snobby notion that only and $500 PCP&C joint is the way to go.

TT have gotten a LOT of bad reviews as regards psus.

Anytime a stress test is done, the TT psus go pop very quickly.

Now in all honesty if you have a tt psu and don't stress it to the max, chances are you won't run into any problems.

But why would you want a 750 w psu?

It will just eat up a lot more electricity over a normal 450W psu, which is more than enough for most setups in all honesty.

Unless you have a stupidly high end system ( and were are talking quad SLI and stacks of hard drives in raid), you have no need for a 750w psu.

Richard Dower

Stephen wrote:

I've heard nothing but bad things about them, much like qtec. Haven't used a thermaltake myself but have used a qtec in the past and have seen first hand the crap that they supply.
Why would all the reviews about thermaltake be wrong, whilst all the ones about qtec are right?

I like my Hiper 580W modular psu.

:eek: sweet jesus...how can you compare TT with the likes of QTec?
When was the last time you guys read a CURRENT review of a TT power supply?

I have, and they have been positive.

Richard Dower

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/ToughPower550/4.html

http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/other_misc/Tt_ToughPower_550w/pg2.html

http://www.bigbruin.com/reviews05/review.php?item=toughpower&file=6

http://www.velocityreviews.com/reviews/Thermaltake_ToughPower_550_Power_Supply/4/

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Thermaltake/ToughPower550/5

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=878&pageID=2044

Richard Dower

conzymaher wrote:

It looks good on paper but I wouldnt buy at thermaltake PSU, Ive seen to many bad reviews.

Why do you need 750watts:eek:

An enermax liberty 620watt would be better and is surely enough for whatever you are going to throw at it, SLI, Raptors in raid.........

Why assume Enermax is better then TT?...it's only got 36A on two 12V rails. TT has 60A on four 12V rails.

B00MSTICK

Ive used Codegen and Qtec psus in the past and have had zero issues. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

DemonOfTheFall

In fairness to Thermaltake, they are getting much better. Their latest PSUs actually comply with current industry standards and seem decent enough.

60 Amps across the 12Volt seems like a pretty smart way to distribute the juice, the other rails don't do a lot anymore anyway.

If only they could stop lying so much about noise levels I wouldn't have such a problem with them.

Richard Dower

The new models have a 14CM fan!!...and as such should be really quiet. The Enermax only has a 12CM, larger fans rotate less and push more air!!

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Richard Dower wrote:

But like do any of you TT haters actually OWN a TT power supply?...i do, has afforded me a year of good service and zero issues.

i'd expect a hell of a lot more than a years service out of a powersupply, maybe a year of being on constantly at least

Richard Dower

Well i've been using it a year a-ok, i don't hold onto hardware for more then a year see, upgradathon.

DemonOfTheFall

Richard Dower wrote:

The new models have a 14CM fan!!...and as such should be really quiet. The Enermax only has a 12CM, larger fans rotate less and push more air!!

In theory, yes, but we all know that a lot more comes into play than just the size of the fan.

Eg., the efficiency of the PSU (how much heat it's going to have to remove)

The quality of the fan, eg. how much noise its motor and blades make

The quality of their thermal controller, ie. is it spinning faster than it needs to be.

Cuddlesworth

I would not buy a TT power supply as when I pay money for a 600 watt supply I espect a 600 watt supply and not just the peak wattage it can do. Under proper stress test nearly every old TT psu failed miserably at what it was rated at. As well as meeting no safty standards. They may be getting better but when there are other brands that supply high quality at the same price why bother taking the risk.

conzy

Richard Dower wrote:

Why assume Enermax is better then TT?...it's only got 36A on two 12V rails. TT has 60A on four 12V rails.

60amps allegedy:rolleyes: Just like the 600watt Q-Tec PSUs on ebay:p

I am not slating TT for the sake of it,You obviously have a lot of money (4 raptors, 7800gtxs...........) So why not buy a decent PSU?

Richard Dower

That's the issue...TT *is* a decent PSU.

Richard Dower

DemonOfTheFall wrote:

In theory, yes, but we all know that a lot more comes into play than just the size of the fan.

Eg., the efficiency of the PSU (how much heat it's going to have to remove)

The quality of the fan, eg. how much noise its motor and blades make

The quality of their thermal controller, ie. is it spinning faster than it needs to be.

85% efficiency is quoted on the new 750W model.

DemonOfTheFall

Ahh... Hmmm...

I'll believe that when I see it. If they're not lying then they'll be the first company to achieve efficiency that high.

Antec couldn't do it, Seasonic couldnt do it.

Something tells me Thermaltake definitely can't do it.

Not to slam them or anything, just that some of their engineering has been absolutely woeful. I'd be surprised if they could go from bottom of the barrel, to beating all the big players. While they're making huge leaps, a turn around like that would be impressive.

Richard Dower

You should try a TT power supply before judging.

conzy

My enermax liberty is 80% effiency;)

Why is your heart set on a TT PSU?

Enermax and other good PSU comapnies like Seasonic quote wattage that is well under their nominal power capacity, Where as thermaltake quote Peak power capacity (the power it can supply before it explodes:D )

Some enermax reviews:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/303/3

http://www.guru3d.com/article/cases/307/7/

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=301&num=3

http://www.bigbruin.com/reviews05/review.php?item=enermaxliberty&file=7

I had to wait several minutes just to see one 0.01V fluctuation occur on one of the three rails being monitored

I dare you to find a bad review of an Enermax Liberty PSU:p

TomCo

Richard Dower wrote:

You should try a TT power supply before judging.

The majority of us can't afford to buy something that expensive to find out if its crap first hand.

Ill rely on the consesus of the community thank you very much.

Also, looking Enermax PSU's a second ago I noticed this

Enermax® Liberty series power supply is for those who still live in a cave PCI-Express video card and CPU reaching near 4G require a new standard in power supply design. It is a modular power supply and come with a cable management sytem.

What the hell is that supposed to mean! Its slightly insulting.

DemonOfTheFall

Richard Dower wrote:

You should try a TT power supply before judging.

This is blind fanboy-ism.

I just pointed out that Seasonic and Antec also failed to reach 85% and asked what makes you think Thermaltake will manage it. All you've said is to try them out.

Forgive me if I'm a little skeptical of them, but I feel a little let down by their definition of "14 dBA". I think they should re word it to 14dBA from 2 and a half miles in the vaccuum of space.

stevenmu

I've had a TT 480w butterfly for the best part of 2 years now with no problems. It's not a quiet as I'd hoped but not too bad either. Iirc it got pretty decent reviews around the time.

TomCo wrote:

Ill rely on the consesus of the community thank you very much.

That's all well and good when the concensus of the community is based on personal experience. For eg there've been many people posting here with problems with Qtec PSUs, hence their bad reputation being justified. TT on the other hand seems to have become a dirty word with relation to PSUs, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone post here, or on other forums, with problems with one.

riptide

stevenmu wrote:

I've had a TT 480w butterfly for the best part of 2 years now with no problems. It's not a quiet as I'd hoped but not too bad either. Iirc it got pretty decent reviews around the time.

That's all well and good when the concensus of the community is based on personal experience. For eg there've been many people posting here with problems with Qtec PSUs, hence their bad reputation being justified. TT on the other hand seems to have become a dirty word with relation to PSUs, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone post here, or on other forums, with problems with one.

Careful now...

BadCharlie

conzymaher wrote:

My enermax liberty is 80% effiency;)

Why is your heart set on a TT PSU?

Enermax and other good PSU comapnies like Seasonic quote wattage that is well under their nominal power capacity, Where as thermaltake quote Peak power capacity (the power it can supply before it explodes:D )

Some enermax reviews:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/303/3

http://www.guru3d.com/article/cases/307/7/

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=301&num=3

http://www.bigbruin.com/reviews05/review.php?item=enermaxliberty&file=7



I dare you to find a bad review of an Enermax Liberty PSU:p

Have a seasonic 600watt PSU my self and i think its great. No sound almost and also no heat.

Also someone said why buy the TT its so much powerfull and there for will use more power. Well thats incorect it only draws the power it needs at anyone time and not its max output all the time, and that goes for all PSU that i know off.

SirLemonhead

Not to back up Richard Dower's constantly component buying insanity, but wouldn't a poweful PSU like that run a lot cooler if it has watts to spare?

ShiverinEskimo

Richard Dower why bother asking what people think if you're just going to take your own point of view and run with it. It sounds like you've made your mind up before asking anyone..

conzy

Also someone said why buy the TT its so much powerfull and there for will use more power. Well thats incorect it only draws the power it needs at anyone time and not its max output all the time, and that goes for all PSU that i know off.

Not to back up Richard Dower's constantly component buying insanity, but wouldn't a poweful PSU like that run a lot cooler if it has watts to spare?

A 750 watt PSU at idle will waste more power than a 400watt PSU at idle even if they both have 80% effiency.

The 750watt PSU with 80% effiency wastes 150watts constantly

The 400watt PSU with 80% effiency wastes 80watts constantly

And that TT PSU is NOT 80% effiency, Its a bad PSU and it wastes electricity

And like Eskimo said, why even ask about the quality of a PSU when you are going to ignore our advice?

Richard Dower

How do you know it's a bad PSU?...do you have it?, have you read any reviews?, how do you know it's not 80% efficiency?

I'm not ignoring advice, what i am suggesting is people are making poor judgements on said PSU without having the FACTS.

A fact would be either having the PSU and having personal experience using it, reading reviews on said PSU. Since none of you have this information you cannot say it's crap.

Richard Dower

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

Richard Dower why bother asking what people think if you're just going to take your own point of view and run with it. It sounds like you've made your mind up before asking anyone..

I haven't made up my mind at all, but clearly others have made up their minds on the quality of this PSU before the damn thing is on sale.

And that in fact is my point.

astrofool

PSU's supply as much juice as is asked of them, so a 750watt PSU should (given the same efficiencies etc.) waste as much as a 200watt PSU if the computer is only using say 150watts.

My machine for example uses 250watts generally (ath64x24400, x1800xt, 2gb etc.) Now if I load up far cry it jumps up to 400watts as the fans/graphics card spins up. This is on a Liberty 620w, and measurements with a battery monitor (the belkin UPS allow you to view the current power consumption in real time).

The other thing is that a higher wattage PSU will probably have better components (ok maybe not in TT's case), to handle the higher loads, so at lower loads be more efficient than a lower wattage model.

And Richard Dower, until Thermaltake significantly up the quality of their output, then of course people won't trust them.

Say Q-Tec released a brand new 750watt PSU, should we buy it cos its new and untested and might be good? Or judge them on all the sh*te they've made previously and not buy it?

TT have really ruined their brand, and appeal to the boy racers of PC's, and it's going to take a hell of alot of work for them to rebuild the brand to the point where people with more than half a brain will buy their merchandise.

Richard Dower

I've shown reviews of the new Thoughpower 500W model that got positive reviews, a company can actually improve and i think this has been happening at TT the last couple of years.

astrofool

A company can improve, but they really are going to have to come out with better products than others, and right now the likes of enermax, seasonic, fortran have a much better rep.

A PSU is one are where quality is paramount, a bad one puts any money spent on any other component go to waste, so you can understand people not wanting to risk it.

Given TT's rep, there is absolutely 0 chance of putting one of their PSU's into any critical machine, and thats the rep that they are up against. AMD have been going against it for years with Intel in the server market, and only now are making inroads.

BadCharlie

conzymaher wrote:

A 750 watt PSU at idle will waste more power than a 400watt PSU at idle even if they both have 80% effiency.

The 750watt PSU with 80% effiency wastes 150watts constantly

The 400watt PSU with 80% effiency wastes 80watts constantly

And that TT PSU is NOT 80% effiency, Its a bad PSU and it wastes electricity

And like Eskimo said, why even ask about the quality of a PSU when you are going to ignore our advice?

Well thats what the little switch on the back of the PSU is there for. I think thats what your on about when saying idle, i always flick this switch when computer is off. But good point not all people do what i do.

Also people should know that the PSU stats it can output 750watt and like if its 80% efficent then it will take something like 1kw draw to output its 750watt mark. Not going to work out its proper draw so my figure is incorrect someone else can do it .

WizZard

BadCharlie wrote:

Well thats what the little switch on the back of the PSU is there for. I think thats what your on about when saying idle, i always flick this switch when computer is off. But good point not all people do what i do.

Also people should know that the PSU stats it can output 750watt and like if its 80% efficent then it will take something like 1kw draw to output its 750watt mark. Not going to work out its proper draw so my figure is incorrect someone else can do it .

Worth reading this guide

uberpixie

A good read indeed wiz.

"A system that draws ~250W maximum and idles at <100W would be a good match for the 300W PSU shown above.The efficiency power curve of the 600W PSU is better suited for a system than idles at >150W and peaks at >300W. It would be a substantially worse match for the system of the previous example, as the PSU would be operating at a mediocre <75% efficiency in idle, and only just reaching 80% at peak. From a PSU heat waste point of view, the differences are significant:

At 200W load,

• the 300W model would generate 44W of heat (18% of 244W AC input);
• the 600W model would generate 50W of heat (20% of 250W AC input).

At 90W load,

• the 300W model would generate 23W of heat (20.5% of 113W AC input).
• the 600W model would generate 32W of heat (26% of 122W AC input).

Using the 600W PSU with this system is an example of incorrect, costly PSU sizing. It is practised most frequently by gaming enthsiasts who are encouraged to believe that greater power capacity is always better. Whether 480W, 550W or >600W PSUs are suitable for system that cannot possibly draw even 250W"


Badcharlie:Forget where I came across it, but at some stage I had it beaten into my head that over specing a PSU wasted power.


So really a 750w is a waste money on the leccy unless you are using a system the draws enough power to warrant buying one.

DemonOfTheFall

Yeah, I'm buying all top of the line components for my current build. Could get the Seasonic 600watt for 160 euro, but instead I'm getting the 500watt for 135. The cost difference is peanuts, but the efficiency curve will likely favour my use a lot more.

uberpixie

Shuttle boxes: I have a 3500+ A64, 1 hardrive, 1 dvd burner and a X800XT PE running stable off the 240w psu....

Was a bit worried when I first got it, but it seems to be going grand.
(would prefer if it was a 300w tbh though...)

I guess we all over estimate the psu thing a bit sometimes.

What parts ya putting in the box demon?

DemonOfTheFall

X2 3800+, 2 gigs of ocz platinum, 7900gt, seasonic psu, xfi extreme music,

watercooling with a 50Z pump, Storm, MP-01 for gpu, and a pa120.3 for a rad.

all wrapped up in a stacker. oh baby.