Mercedes C180 Vs Toyota Cynos

nowuckenfurries

I'm between 2 minds as to which car to choose as my next purchase & I am wondering what's the general consensus on the boards might be towards either car when it comes to economy, maintainance costs etc...

I'm thinking Toyota Cynos for "Sportiness" etc, but with reliability of a Toyota etc...Or am I wrong in my assumptions??

But on the other hand the Mercedes C180 (comfortable car for my 30 mile each way journey to work each day)...Yes it's an affordable Merc, but is this car an expensive one to maintain??

The years I'm looking at are '97/'98 for the Toyota or '95/96 for the Merc

Any opinions or experiences on either car would be much appreciated.

Insurance / Tax costs are not an issue for me with regards to either vehicle, just the upkeep..

Cheers!!:)

junkyard

Forget the Merc they're rubbish at that end of the scale, the Toyota is reliable but its an import and parts can be hard to get for them. Consider a Carina or an Avensis. Personally I'd recommend a good spec 3 series BMW,there should be loads of them around for the kind of money your willing to spend.

donegalman1

Have to recommend the C180.Compared with the 3 series and unless you get a hi spec BM they aren't near the mark. Some good Mercs out there and they'll go on forever. Watch for high Milage and prices in Dublin. Buy down the country and you'll save a packet. There is a specialist Merc breakers on the Armagh Border should you ever need parts. Mercs tend to be very reliable and the comfort particularly on long journeys is unbeatable. Economy isn't bad either on long journeys considering.

junkyard

The only Merc worth buying is the S class or the SL the cheaper ones are very unreliable...take it for me I've owned more Mercs than most and I have to say the older Mercs were good (up to mid nineties) but the newer ones have been a huge disappointment. I changed to BMW in the nineties and haven't looked back since and I doubt I'll ever go back.

phoenix_nights

I would advise against the C180. When i was researching to buy a car i looked at this one but there are too many issues with it. For example the wiper mechanism fails quite easily and costs 800 or so to repair.

The S class is fine as junkyard has mentioned but maybe too expensive. The most popular though of all mercs is the w124 (E class '86 - '96). As an example of their reliability check out how may taxis use them in dublin. Go for a facelift model ('94+) with auto.

Alternative is the 190E. Had one of them years ago and built like a panzer aswell.

zuutroy

junkyard wrote:

the Toyota is reliable but its an import and parts can be hard to get for them.

Cynos has the 5E-FHE engine which is basically a starlet engine with greater displacement. It also shares many other parts including brakes etc. I have a Sera with the 5E-FHE and have had no bother with getting parts and its a good reliable motor.

junkyard

Sorry I mean body parts i.e. wings, doors, etc., I know Toyota can supply parts but they're pricey.

MercMad

Lets put things in perspective..............sure we'd all love an S-Class or an SL but the tax and insurance alone puts this outside the scope of what someone who is looking at a C180 is prepared to spend per annum !

I have a 1994 C-Class, bought with 72,000 miles and it now has 115,000 miles. It has had nothing but an annual service every 12,000 miles with 1 oil change in between. For the first few year MB serviced it and I have done it ever since !

It is on its 3rd set of tyres, € 260 for the full set, last week I bought a set of plugs, oil, fuel, air and charcoal filter and some bulbs, all Bosch from my local factors for €135 ..............thats it !

Anyone can service it !

It passed its NCT with flying colours, emissions were the lowest possible, everythingt else was spot on, no suspension wear, no issues with shock or bushes ( these are all original).

The guy told me there were no issues with the car and nothing to be concerned about next time either !

These cars are solid and built to last, you can buy everything for them cheaply and everything is simple to work on !

The single wiper only gives troublke if it has not been lubricated twice yearly, which anyone who is familiar with them does anywy. If the wipoer sticks in the centre you CAN repair it in about 25 minutes. If its strips the splines then you have about 2 hours work to do but I have fixed a good few and have yet to replace ANY part ! If you left it into a dealer you would be screwed no doubt !

There is no comparison between these C-Classes and a 3 series or any other modern car. The "3" will out handle it possibly and be more fun as the E36 has much more feel but the downside is it is vastly inferior as far as refinement goes. The one I have is quiter and smoother than my '03 CLK. These Mercs use Recirculating Ball steering which tends to insulate/isolate you from whast the wheels are doing. The magazines hate that but EVERY onwer loves it !

If buying then I reccomend a C180 (over a C200) you MUST get auto transmission, and DO NOT buy a "Classic" as they are spartan. Get an Elegance and avoid anything with big wheels and low profile tyres. Shop around and get the most extras you can AND get a good metallic.

Also because of the durability of components clocking can be a huge concern so check for service history/NCT certs etc !

One final area where you could have problems is that the expansion bottle on top of the rad has an issue. The genuine cap is apparantly over-rated so it does not release when it should if the car overheats. The viscous fan, as on most cars, can fail eventually and what happens is when in traffic the temp rises, the fan doesn't cool the engine, the car overheats, the cap doesnt release and it actually cracks the top of the expansion bottle internally.

All of this assumes of course that you are a dummy and didn't see the temp gauge zooming for the red zone. Anyway just ensure the coolant level is okay, there are no dribbles near where the tank joins the rad and that the viscous fan works properly.

Put it this way, having bought 5 Mercs in the last 6 years, I will be buying another W202 C-Class in the next 12 months !

junkyard

If I got a pound for every modern Merc I'd towed in the last 4 years I could go on a nice holiday. 1.3 million Mercs were recalled at the first half of last year due to poor build quality and unreliability issues. A customer of mine is on his fourth fuel pump in his 01 C200 so far, its locked him out of the car on two occasions and has broken down on numerous occasions.....I know because I've towed him to the dealers each time, hes owned BMW's for years without problems on this scale and needless to say he trading shortly for another BMW if he can get rid of the Merc. Hes not the only one I have 5 other regular customers who drive Mercs and they're not happy either. One man I know drives a 04 Merc and if he has to drive a distance he takes his wifes Toyota Avensis for fear of breaking down. I'll be the first to admit the Mercedes cars were once a fine product but the the modern ones are a very poor reflection.

MercMad

Ahh I think recalls are a facyt of life for every manufacturer nowdays but some more than others, and for issues that shouldn't arise !

Thankfully I havent had any faults or issues with any of the cars I have bought, 3 brand new ones. No quality or warranty issues in 70,000 miles !

Just like any car, you will find different experiences when talking to different people, and I 'aint justifying Merc here either but there are 2 E39 5 series here and a 2002 A4 Tdi, all bought new and have very low mileages !

The newest 5 has had airbag issues since day 1 and the ashtray jammed, they say it needs new discs front and rear after only 35,000 miles, servicing is €121/hour and the airconditioning failed !

The other one has 55,000 miles and has been towed 3 times when it failed to start. Once this was an immobilser issue which cost €1500 to fix. Again more passenger airbag issues, the immobilser went again after 13 months and as a "gesture of goodwill" they covered 50% costs !!! It failed its NCT when it had 39,000 miles due to rear suspension wear. We had to replace the alloy arms on both sides ! The sunroof jammes and 2 months a go the manual gearbox packed up ! The delaers wanted €6,000 and we stuck in a modified used one bought for €500 ! Apparantly its a known problem !

There is an E36 here too which has been totally reliable for 120k except for a new cam and rockers, again common !

The A4 is a joke, 3 gloveboxes, a sunvisor, stereo, 1 electric window, 2 sets of discs (each time the pads were done) and a vacuum pump and now its due a clutch ! Thsi after the owner had 4 older versions without a hitch !

Fact is................cars arent what they used to be unless their Japanese, in which case I'd prefer to have ALL the above problems on any one car than go down that route !

Look back to the 1970's and take MB for example, there were recognised as being the best engineered cars in the world. They were built to last and whatever the cost was thay added their margin on and sold the cars.

They lasted !

Too long, in fact the company realsie dthat their cars were not wearing out. the had to cheapen the range. In 1984 there were approximately 1,000 new Mercs sold in Ireland..................even a few hundred in the 70's !

They were exclusive and held their price, you could buy a W123, wait 2 YEARS for it to arrive, drive it for a year and sell it for more than you paid for it !

Mercs are just ordinary cars now, lots of options available but not the cars the once were but then their prices are actually much less than they were when everything is considered. The company has only survived because it made cars cheaper and sold more !

Tha same will happen to Aston Martin or Bentley, once hand built, very rare now common as muck

kdevitt

zuutroy wrote:

Cynos has the 5E-FHE engine which is basically a starlet engine with greater displacement. It also shares many other parts including brakes etc. I have a Sera with the 5E-FHE and have had no bother with getting parts and its a good reliable motor.

Cynos is (was) sold over here as a Paseo is it not, so surely parts wouldn't be an issue at all??

Not a fan of Mercs at all to be honest - but the Cynos is completely cramped from my limited experience of them and wouldn't be high up my list of desired purchases.

phoenix_nights

Totally agree. I went for a w124 even though i could have picked up a w202 or w210 for the same money. Mercedes though now have put 1 billion in quality control

junkyard wrote:

If I got a pound for every modern Merc I'd towed in the last 4 years I could go on a nice holiday. 1.3 million Mercs were recalled at the first half of last year due to poor build quality and unreliability issues. A customer of mine is on his fourth fuel pump in his 01 C200 so far, its locked him out of the car on two occasions and has broken down on numerous occasions.....I know because I've towed him to the dealers each time, hes owned BMW's for years without problems on this scale and needless to say he trading shortly for another BMW if he can get rid of the Merc. Hes not the only one I have 5 other regular customers who drive Mercs and they're not happy either. One man I know drives a 04 Merc and if he has to drive a distance he takes his wifes Toyota Avensis for fear of breaking down. I'll be the first to admit the Mercedes cars were once a fine product but the the modern ones are a very poor reflection.

colm_mcm

The Cynos is tiny though!

junkyard

I can see your point Mercmad, its a pity though,they really had it good but threw it all away.:(

nowuckenfurries

Mercmad, thanks for the info, it there anything in particular I should be looking for hint wise to show that the mileage might not be as genuine as appears (Is it possible for people to doctor the LCD odometer??) or are there various tell-tail signs of neglegence...????

MercMad

Mercmad, thanks for the info, it there anything in particular I should be looking for hint wise to show that the mileage might not be as genuine as appears (Is it possible for people to doctor the LCD odometer??) or are there various tell-tail signs of neglegence...????

.........mmm its a tough question ! It can sometimes be hard to tell a car with 180k over one with 80k !

The mileometer on any car can be tampered with although on these you do need to remove the dash claock assembley so take a look around that area for marks. Also check out the vehicle NCT report to see if the mileag stack up. You may get a service history so again check the mileage agaist the dates and also try to see if thius history looks genuine and not all done at the same time later, i.e forged by someone !

If its an Irish car you may be able to contact previous owners, although at this age the details may not be present as one the old log books, a backward step IMO. You can still get these details though !

The AA can do a comprehensive check so that might be worth it !

Things like pedal rubbers can be replaced, so can steering wheels although carpets and gear levers generally get left alone so take a look at these, and the drivers door handles.

Again the NCT report should show the state of the engine, if its burning oil the PPM reading will be at the higher end of the scale and emissions will also be higher. I could scan the one from my car, which is very healthy if you wanted it !

Hope that helps !