Is Clinch the new Ground?

Roper

I was flicking through my local paper yesterday and I saw an article about a TKD club. Basically, it ran through and average class and in the middle of it was "effective in a clinch". Now to give it context, I know of these guys and 6 months ago they couldn't spell clinch, let alone train it.

A similar phenonemon occurred a few years ago when suddenly everybody was "grappling" or "groundfighting" having never considered it before. And there was a lot of bad ground skills and so-called experts around. IMO, this sort of thing set people genuinely interested in training on the ground back years, myself included.

I just think that if suddenly people in MA clubs that know nothing about clinch skills suddenly just start grabbing each other and saying "oh yeah we train clinch", then their students won't go to a good clinch coach, they'll just stay where they are, even though that's bad training. What this does is set back the level of clinch training in Ireland. It takes people away from the good coaches who've invested time and effort into learning this range thoroughly.

I train clinch. I have limited Thai/Judo/Wrestling experience. I train fundamentals though, and I show my guys the same things I do myself. Our level is improving all the time but if anyone wanted to take it further, I'd point the way, not make it up by myself.

Rant over! I get really frustrated by things like this!!!

Millionaire

I hear ya big time on this clinch idea.

I thought from KM , I had clinch skills. I thought Clinch mean
to grab the guy around the head and start hammering knees in
and that was clinch. (Thats what KM do in clinch)

So I said a few times already.

I come to a Thai camp that specialise in the clinch.

and i am thrown on my butt 10 times in a few rounds.

Nothing from KM worked....nothing!

I injured myself in the back and neck 4 or 5 times in 2 weeks. it hurt!

Clinch, is a skill itself that takes along time to master.

As I am not a born MT boxer, I can bring some of my own little
Outside the Box, things to clinch sparring and they sometimes work.

Actually Paun Vunaks of JKD fame, famous deadly RATT system that he teaches the US SEALS, is a variation of clinch, and modified for dirty tricks.

Clinch is a good range to master for street too.

Roper

Mill,
I'm not even talking about mastering the range, but even starting at the right point, ie. with the basics. I've had some guys come train with me and we'd do some shoot/sprawl work. And they say yeah we've done that, we know how to shoot. Now I'm not saying that I've a good shot but I know to keep my frickin head up. Anyway 15 or so guillotine chokes later they're scratching their heads. And I'll say it again, I only know the very fundamentals! then the pop their legs back a bit and still get taken down, and they're thinking that sprawling doesn't work. But it does when you do it right, when you've learned it right.

Man I am angry this morning, must be the pot of coffee I've drank so far!!!

Tim_Murphy

Barry, I agree with what you are saying in general but it's not like there are a huge amount of proper clinch coaches in this country. I'm sure it's a bit better in Dubllin but in most places there will be no wrestling coaches or even thai coaches so we have to try to figure it out for ourselves. Not ideal but that's how I do a lot (most) of my training and it works ok.

Roper

Ah but you're being honest right there Tim. You're not saying "yeah we clinch, it's in the patterns". By the way there's not a tonne of clinch coaches in Dublin either but as long as you're willing to start at the beginning (like say me and you) you can figure it out for yourself with a little guidance I think.

Colm_OReilly

Clinchin' 2 The All New Electric Bugaloo for anyone serious about zhee Clinch!

Clinch rocks! I remember a convo myself and Fianna were having about a year ago after a wrestling tournament. So many BJJ enthusiasts use lines like "just take him down and submit him," so we have a joke that you "just" take him down and then submit him. Just trying and wrestle in the clinch with anyone who's a decnt sprawl, anti clinch game, thai fighter, GR wrestler and see if you can just take him down if he doesn't want to go.

To flip it around, imagine a wrestler saying to a big BJJ head, oh yeah, I'll take him down and then just submit him. The BJJ guy would go mad about how difficulat and technical and complex the ground game is.

I don't really know what's the point of thie rant, I've just been typing all afternoon and can't seem to stop.

Colm

FiannaGym.com

Yes. And B~LL$H]T is the new martial art.

Peace

Is judo standup considered to be "clinch"?

Tim_Murphy

Ah but you're being honest right there Tim. You're not saying "yeah we clinch, it's in the patterns". By the way there's not a tonne of clinch coaches in Dublin either but as long as you're willing to start at the beginning (like say me and you) you can figure it out for yourself with a little guidance I think.

ya that's a good point and an important distinction. It all just comes down to the attitude of the instructors involved really I suppose. Egos often get in the way of people learning!:rolleyes: