Live hand from 78 club

ianmc38

OK, 8 handed ring game - 1/2 PL.

Table is very loose passive preflop and loose aggresive postflop. Everyone limps for 2, but generally folds for 10+.

I'm on the button with AdJd.

Everyone limps and I raise to €15. Aside: Please dont bother commenting on the raise.

2 callers, 1 maniac and 1 steady player. I've seen him limp twice with aces and limp with big aces on numerous occasions. He oftens overplays TP TK and plays draws aggressively.

He has €400 and I have €600 or so left behind. Table maniac is shortstacked on €100 or so.

Flop comes AQJ rainbow.

Check check and I bet out €25. Maniac pushes and the other guy repots it.

I?

Hectorjelly

Fold.

Why cant we comment on the preflop raise?

cardshark202

You say he's steady so his range must be AK, AQ, AJ or maybe even JJ. If he is a steady player then we can rule out KT. I think this is a folder so. Unless you think he's the type of player to overplay AT? If so then get you chips in!

ianmc38

Hectorjelly wrote:

Why cant we comment on the preflop raise?

Because I know it was bad. I was just sick of the million limpers per hand.

cardshark202

ianmc38 wrote:

Because I know it was bad. I was just sick of the million limpers per hand.

You're in position with a raisable hand. I would raise here too. You get one or two callers and if you hit your flop you'll get paid off by Arag, KJ, QJ all sorts of ****e that these players play. In these games I see no problem with raising. You must fold to a limp re-raise in almost all cases though. That said, I would have no problem with checking here.

Hectorjelly

I dont think the raise is bad! On the flop I think he has one of; a set, 2 pair, a straight or AK. Each one of them beat you (unless you both have AJ) bar AK so I think its an easy fold. He cant be bluffing, and he is unlikely to have a worse ace. AK has plenty of outs anyway.

valor

Raising is fine, the amount was maybe a little small though

Hectorjelly

valor wrote:

Raising is fine, the amount was maybe a little small though

its pot limit

lolkelly

The only conceivable hand that you are beating is AK. What else would you put him on in this situation? QJ is a possibility but i doubt he was calling the large raise preflop with this

valor

Hectorjelly wrote:

its pot limit

So? He said there were 5 limpers so surely he can raise to more than 15

Hectorjelly

valor wrote:

So? He said there were 5 limpers so surely he can raise to more than 15

5 limpers = 10 + 3 blinds + 2 of his call means he can raise 15 to 17. Do you think it makes any difference whether its 15 or 17?

valor

Nope but I have a lack of understanding of pot limit so my bad!

ianmc38

valor wrote:

Nope but I have a lack of understanding of pot limit so my bad!

De Deraco

these cash games are always so crazy its hard to know where u stand. online id fold in a hearthbeat. but the maniac is a maniac so he could hold J10 or KJ or A rag. its the fact the other guy repoted it that would make me think he defo doesnt have a straight, so he could be oveplaying TPTK or maybe trying an old squeze move against you as he is probably beating the maniac. but if he is as steady as you say its probably trips which is a fold.

MrPillowTalk

Folding, I think the pre flop raise was fine.

fuzzbox

Raise is great pf, great hand on the button.

Fold now .... although I probably give the guy daggers and get in a huff about it.

What position were maniac and steady eddie in?

careca

I'm not sure its that easy a fold. If this player (steady eddie) is any good, he will also know that the maniac could be trying it on and is trying to isolate him. He could easily have A rag and is willing to take on maniac but not you. If he had a set or top two, would he give a free card to the str8 ? The wimp in me would prob fold but I can see reasons for pushing (although the check reraise is very worrying alright).

ianmc38

Well i thought about it for a long time and eventually folded. I figured the only hands I was beating were AK and ATs. The only thing i was slightly concerned about was the size of his raise. I've seen lots of bad players overbet big hands like flopped straights and trips, but generally steadier players tend to try milking more.

I mucked and grimaced as he showed AJ.

Maniac had KQ.

Turn was another ace. Yuk.

I think a fold here was still correct, as I'm only ever going to be ahead of AK or AT, and i'll often run into AQ, AA, QQ, JJ.

Still annoying though.

theslick

I would have done the same on the flop - too many hands beat you and you only have put in 40.
As it happened - you would only have gained 50 if you stayed in.

Marq

I think the steady player needs a very strong hand to Check-RE-Raise in this spot. Given that the OP has shown some strength by betting the flop, the re-raiser must figure that there is a chance he will get called.

Having said that, I agree that it's not the easiest laydown. With an extremely strong hand such as the made set or a straight, it's in his interests for you to stay in the pot with a medium strength hand. It is possible that he has an ace, and read your half-pot continuation (style) bet for weakness.

But to re-re-analyse. Two players have just checkraised you, you are being asked for your whole stack, and you have top and bottom pair. Fold.

Pre-flop raise is standard. I think fifteen is better than seventeen because in my experience (and I deal games like this for a living), more people will call.

handsfree

careca wrote:

I'm not sure its that easy a fold. If this player (steady eddie) is any good, he will also know that the maniac could be trying it on and is trying to isolate him. He could easily have A rag and is willing to take on maniac but not you. .

these were my thoughts

theslick

But the maniac is all in by that stage.

ianmc38

The only doubt i had in my mind was the size of his raise. Thats what made me think about calling. If he'd flopped a straight or a set, he'd want me to call, so would more than likely smooth call the maniacs shove, though he may have hoped I thought he was doing that.