Tribeca rakeback! - A discussion

Imposter

It seems as though Doyle's room and all rooms on the tribeca network are not able to offer rakeback to new customers anymore!

The cynic in me seems to think that this is VC, PaddyPower etc. putting pressure on the network to ban rakeback in order to stop them from losing customers, similar to what UB did with Pokershare!

The established skins will argue that they have done the groundwork in getting the players to play on the site and that others cannot now come in and use that hard work to their advantage but surely these sites must occasionally consider the player's lot in all of this, considering the number of sites that are in the market!

So what are people's opinions on this and the general way the sites seem to be treating players now?




- I hope this is ok with the mods as it's not a request for rakeback.

Lafortezza

Maybe it'll mean that Tribeca sites will be offering good signup and reload bonuses instead.

Please no offers or requests for rakeback on this thread - read the charter, I don't want to ban anyone, ty.

gerire

I was just talking about this to a friend last night. Surly if PPP want to stand out in the UK market anyway, they are the ones trying to make a move in on 'enemy turf' as such in the UK, they should offer a rakeback. Something to entice a new player to go to them instead of VC or Laddies or a US site. No a newbie freeroll isn't something to entice me.

Most serious online players, no I dont include myself, count on rakeback as part of their income. Im sure, nay i know, players do always hunt around for the best deals on Rakeback.

My thoughts are still uncomplete on the matter but it is a much better reward than "points for prizes" Or as Luke says a decent reload bonus. We dont ask for much

Marq

VC currently have some very good sign up offers

EDIT/ I got a 100% up to $500 deposit bonus at VC 3 days ago, but I just checked back at the site and it seems that it was a limited time offer, as it is gone now.

ianmc38

Paddy Power and VC both lost my custom as I setup a Doyles Room Account in order to receive rakeback. I've already payed $1200 this month in rake and I havn't even played as much cash as I normally do, so they have lost out on a large sum of money due to sheer greed.

Culchie

It's all about keeping margins higher Imposter, as soon as these start to get reduced, it becomes a discount war...everyone gets involved, it's 'get down and dirty' stuff with casualities along the way.

Look at US ambulance chasers no win no fee legal profession V's Upright and proper and expensive Irish legal practice.
Look at Vinter's keeping drink prices high in pubs, not allowing members to price their own way.



Brands have a premium, they don't want to 'discount'.
Discounting erodes loyalty to brands, it doesn't enhance it.

I worked for several years in the oil and petroleum industry, similar sort of stuff going on there, and in Supermarket Indusrty.

Ollieboy

I would far rather see all the networks reduce there rake instead of offering rakeback. The rake on cash games on all sites is far to high, its the same price as paying a live dealer in Vegas for god sake. Its maddness and us poker players are putting up with it. Rake on computer games should only be $1 per all hands, not the max $4.

I would rather see less rake for cash games etc, than rakeback deals which only benefit the high value players.

the software house are making a mint out of poker, but so far they seem to be operating like a cartel. I would love to see players getting together and forcing changes in this, similiar to all-in poker etc. There's space in the market place for a better value poker company, but it will start a price war and than everyone will loose in the end, but fair pricing is a big issue with me. I think the rake on tourneys is also high, most casino's offer the same reg, but for a live game with dealers etc.

ArmaniJeanss

lafortezza wrote:

Maybe it'll mean that Tribeca sites will be offering good signup and reload bonuses instead.
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VC and some of the other skins have improved their bonus offerings in the last few weeks. Monthly reload bonus of up to $150, at the standard 125 points per $1. Its 15% match instead of the previous 25% (i.e have to deposit $1000 each month to get the max bonus), but this doesnt really matter.
See vcpoker for the bonus codes.

ArmaniJeanss

Imposter wrote:

But nothing for the more established players, who will generally pay a lot more rake (I'm obviously not considering ActionPoints/PaddyPoints as the amount of points needed for things is laughable).

No, they are the same bonuses for established players

Imposter

ArmaniJeanss wrote:

No, they are the same bonuses for established players

Sorry, I didn't realise they started to offer more reload bonuses on VC.

I deleted that post but you can see it in AJ's quote.

Lafortezza

I wonder what % of Tribeca players (especially PPP players) could tell you what rakeback is...
The volume of players who play regularly and seriously enough to search for rakeback and good signup/reload bonuses is tiny compared to the vast majority of online players.

Ste05

RB is still available on Tribeca, you just can't publicly advertise it anymore. If people want RB on Tribeca it's available if you go looking.

P.S. Don't PM me about Tribeca RB, my affiliates don't offer it and so neither do I.

hotspur

I haven't heard about this at all, where did you read that Tribeca skins cannot offer rakeback? It doesn't make sense to me, they are all autonomous and in competition with each other.

Samba

It's the network operators Tribeca themselves who do not wish companies on their network offering Rake Back.

Imposter

rakerebatereview.com was where I first saw it. I also got in touch with the crowd I had intended to set up a Doylesroom account with and they mailed me back saying rakeback was no longer possible on the tribeca network for new customers.

hotspur

Hmm I just read the mail that was sent to the affiliate by Doyles Room:
http://www.rakebackstore.com/blog/?p=9

I can't think why Tribeca itslef would care less about rakeback, so is it because certain big Tribeca skins pressurised them into disallowing it because players were taking their money to skins which offered better value for money? Anyone willing to share any insight into this decision by Tribeca?

Ste05

I got a similar mail from an affiliate a couple of days ago, but my above post still stands.

Samba

Yeah it looks like there has been a serious clamp down across the board...

Culchie

You see if they start introducing rakeback as standard (discounting) and thus eroding margins, it will be impossible for them to increase it again, at least to the levels they are today.

They'll maintain their 10% fees, 5% rakeback as long as possible ... none of the big players will break rank now, like an unwritten law.

Don't forget this online poker craze has yet to hit Asia, India and most of Eastern Europe yet... so the poker networks want to make sure they are running into these markets at a premium rate, rather than entering the markets at a discounted level.

Samba

While the Asian market is clearly the largest in the world, entering this market could potentially lead any online poker room to the brink of bankrupcy with credit card charge backs.

Asia is where credit card fraud on and offline is most rampant.... checking card numbers with Asian banks etc would prove very difficult, im not even sure what the law in many Asian Countries is in relation to this, so then this would entail getting photocopies of all documentation etc....

It's one market any online gambling company has to tread very carefully in, as the waters are murky...

Eastern Europe is probably the next part of the world where credit card fraud has a very high level of activity....

In short I cannot see Asia and the western world organisations working well, I don't think Tribeca has many or any Asian clients the culture and language barrier is one that is very complex and difficult to get around with ease

Does anyone know of any Asian skins on Western networks? Off the top of my mind personally I don't...I would be interested in knowing.

cardshark202

Samba wrote:

While the Asian market is clearly the largest in the world, entering this market could potentially lead any online poker room to the brink of bankrupcy with credit card charge backs.

Asia is where credit card fraud on and offline is most rampant.... checking card numbers with Asian banks etc would prove very difficult, im not even sure what the law in many Asian Countries is in relation to this, so then this would entail getting photocopies of all documentation etc....

It's one market any online gambling company has to tread very carefully in, as the waters are murky...

Eastern Europe is probably the next part of the world where credit card fraud has a very high level of activity....

In short I cannot see Asia and the western world organisations working well, I don't think Tribeca has many or any Asian clients the culture and language barrier is one that is very complex and difficult to get around with ease

Does anyone know of any Asian skins on Western networks? Off the top of my mind personally I don't...I would be interested in knowing.

Those are very good points. I can't think of any myself. I did read somewhere about CYOP systems developing gaming software for the asian market though.

Culchie

Yes they are good points and valid too.

All the more reason anyone entering the market will want to have maximum margin levels in place to offset these 'bad debt' problems.

hotspur

Most of Asia doesn't have the poker tradition that has been prevalent in the West (I think it may be played in Vietnam a bit due to Americans playing it during their kerfuffle there), it isn't crazy enough for a lot of the East Asians But a lot of the far East are hardcore gamers and when it hits Japan for example, which it will fairly soon I think, it will be big, not only because of it's 120m+ population but the young people there game to excessive levels...I can see the onlinepoker company executives high fiving each other when the news report of the first internet cafe death of a player who had played online poker for 36 hours straight comes in My hat will come off to any online poker site which accepts credit card deposits from South east Asian countires like Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand etc., now that would be a -EV gamble

Ste05

hotspur wrote:

My hat will come off to any online poker site which accepts credit card deposits from South east Asian countires like Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand etc., now that would be a -EV gamble

I couldn't agree more with this. One of the offers I list in my sig was nearly brought to its knees with fraud from Asia and Eastern Europe. I can't see any of the sites opening up there any time soon. The only way I can possibly see it happening would be when the current market reaches saturation point. (Not any time soon by the looks of things)

Imposter

Aside from the asia thing, which should be a seperate discussion, I can't see how tribeca (If they are the ones who are forcing this rather than the existing skins) seem to think that having no rakeback whatsoever is good for business! Party and Pokerstars can do it because they are big networks (but even Party suffered when they disconnected the skins a while back), but Tribeca are only a medium sized network and surely 70-80% of a lot is better than 100% of fück all!

Culchie

Imposter wrote:

Aside from the asia thing, which should be a seperate discussion, I can't see how tribeca (If they are the ones who are forcing this rather than the existing skins) seem to think that having no rakeback whatsoever is good for business! Party and Pokerstars can do it because they are big networks (but even Party suffered when they disconnected the skins a while back), but Tribeca are only a medium sized network and surely 70-80% of a lot is better than 100% of fück all!

Tribeca has grew close to 80% in the last year I'd say, so they are getting quite big.

Anyways, Party and Stars lead the way, the others will follow what they do. If Party and Stars can get away without rakeback, and Tribeca now .... not being flippant ... but the poker bosses will sit in their boardrooms and say "What ya gonna do about it?"

Their huge marketing spend (anyone that has seen any US TV lately will verify) attracting new customers will far outweigh any maverick operator that wants to get accross the message of rakeback.
They'll have to spend more dollars trying to get that rakeback message across on less income .... that's the strategy, the big boys stick together and shape the market as they see fit.

PPP-Pit Boss

You guys always seem to come from the point of view that all sites are run by MONSTERS who take your money (and blood if possible).. This is a business not unlike any other business, not at all unlike any business that you yourselves probably work in.
Rakeback is a great marketing tool. It is really amazing how gullible people really are... the MORE YOU PLAY THE MORE MONEY WE GIVE YOU!!!!!! Em hello? No one is giving anyone money you just most likely spent more money than you intended attempting to reach the threshold set out.

Rakeback is not good for the poker business or the future of the poker business. Starting off a price war amoungst the sites can only result in the long run in inferior products and service.

If one REALLY wants to so benevolent then why not simply cut the % of rake charged rather than pretend you are GIVING money to your customers whilst extracting as much as possible out of them in the first place by gearing the campaign toward PLAY MORE GET MORE and introducing thresholds.

We have a serious amount of promotions ongoing on our site every day giving back to our customers to reward loyalty. Points for Prizes will go live very shortly and I can garauntee PP will not make one red cent (in fact we will take a hit).

You may see it whatever way you like and raise holy war on THE BIG BAD sites. We are just running a business and trying to do whats best for the future of the industry we work in.

ianmc38

Those $5 giveaway tourneys sure are generous.

Samba

Hmmmm an interesting take on this thread Nikki and very much a view from deep in the heart of the Industry

I really want to outline alot of points but I don't want this to turn in to a PPP thread...so I shall refrain.

5starpool

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

We have a serious amount of promotions ongoing on our site every day giving back to our customers to reward loyalty. Points for Prizes will go live very shortly and I can garauntee PP will not make one red cent (in fact we will take a hit).

These promotions (I assume freerolls and their ilk) are only played by a specific subset of people, and the people who play 3-6 (or higher) and take advantage of rakebake to increase their profits, most likely wouldn't be seen dead in a $200 freeroll (or whatever).

I don't have a rakeback deal for 2 simple reasons.

1. I don't play enough to really need one (I know I prob still should have one anyhow).
2. I play the vast majority of my poker on Pokerstars.

Yes, poker sites are businesses, but are you suggesting there should be no competition among sites except who gives out the best hats etc and who has the most $500 freerolls with 1000 players?

Ste05

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

Rakeback is a great marketing tool. It is really amazing how gullible people really are... the MORE YOU PLAY THE MORE MONEY WE GIVE YOU!!!!!! Em hello? No one is giving anyone money you just most likely spent more money than you intended attempting to reach the threshold set out.

If you're going to be playing anyway, it's just extra money that you can get if you know about it. Also some sites don't have any threshold.

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

Rakeback is not good for the poker business or the future of the poker business. Starting off a price war amoungst the sites can only result in the long run in inferior products and service.

It's not good for the Profit margins of the Poker business, but I can't see how it could lead to inferior products. Inferior products, like in all business won't survive, no matter how cheap they are.

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

If one REALLY wants to so benevolent then why not simply cut the % of rake charged rather than pretend you are GIVING money to your customers whilst extracting as much as possible out of them in the first place by gearing the campaign toward PLAY MORE GET MORE and introducing thresholds.

Because the huge majority of players don't even know RB exists, therefore the high volume players keep playing, and the Poker Rooms can continue to charge higher Rake to the high % of players out there who don't know about RB.

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

We have a serious amount of promotions ongoing on our site every day giving back to our customers to reward loyalty. Points for Prizes will go live very shortly and I can garauntee PP will not make one red cent (in fact we will take a hit).

Fair play, but that's just how you choose to market your product, just like Party and Stars. It's a business decision, and one that I assume you are happy with.

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

You may see it whatever way you like and raise holy war on THE BIG BAD sites. We are just running a business and trying to do whats best for the future of the Company we work in.

FYP

PPP-Pit Boss

Ian - PPP frequently run massive giveaways. Every day on our site we run free gratis giveaways. Every weekend we run giveaways. Every couple of months we run huge giveaways. Recently we gave away free package entry to the Irish Open with $4,500 for 5,000 points. If you wish to make a point taking the smallest freeroll on the site and using it as an example is hardly constructive.

5Star - there is nothing whatsoever wrong with competition. This thread and this disussion surrounds our reluctance (Tribeca) to run Rakeback as a marketing tool, I am replying from my perspective on it.

STE - Ultimately if you start a price war something will have to give, if poker is to live on the periphery of margin then the problem is that something will have to suffer to make up the difference. Ultimately the danger is that it could lead to the demise of the online industry itself when as a result of price war the business diminishes and becomes unprofitable and unfeasable.
What do you think is going to happen if all sites adopt this policy? Think about it.. Where do we go from there? More rakeback? How about no rake now there is a teaser!
In answer to your last point, quite right, we are happy with it. We wish to be more inventive with our retention spending and use it to grow the industry rather than diminish it.

ianmc38

Hi Nikki, I was referring to the actual $5 giveaway tournament not the freerolls.

Tribeca have some of the worst freerolls on the internet IMHO, even more so for a site that doesn't offer a rakeback deal. Why do you think I should play with PPP when I can play on DR and get 27% of my rakeback every month.

Note: I played PPP for a year and only changed to DR when I realised how much money I was losing out on. Doyles Room still provide the exact same freerolls and a similar number of promotions to those offered by PPP.

So changing from one skin to the other is really a no brainer.

Imposter

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

You guys always seem to come from the point of view that all sites are run by MONSTERS who take your money (and blood if possible).. This is a business not unlike any other business, not at all unlike any business that you yourselves probably work in.

It's also a business for most serious players, be that playing for a second income or as their job. Should they not try to save money where possible? I think you'll find most people aren't 100% happy in the businesses they work in either!

Rakeback is a great marketing tool. It is really amazing how gullible people really are... the MORE YOU PLAY THE MORE MONEY WE GIVE YOU!!!!!! Em hello? No one is giving anyone money you just most likely spent more money than you intended attempting to reach the threshold set out.

The more you play, you take less per hand, but as much or maybe more overall. Stop talking down to us, people understand what rb is!

Rakeback is not good for the poker business or the future of the poker business. Starting off a price war amoungst the sites can only result in the long run in inferior products and service.

God forbid if the customer was ever put first! Many of the poker sites already offer inferior products compared to others in the market. I'd class some of the big sites in that list too so that point makes no sense.

If one REALLY wants to so benevolent then why not simply cut the % of rake charged rather than pretend you are GIVING money to your customers whilst extracting as much as possible out of them in the first place by gearing the campaign toward PLAY MORE GET MORE and introducing thresholds.

Exactly. Why don't you?

We have a serious amount of promotions ongoing on our site every day giving back to our customers to reward loyalty. Points for Prizes will go live very shortly and I can garauntee PP will not make one red cent (in fact we will take a hit).

You have virtually nothing for players who've gotten past the 10$ tournaments. Yes people could play the 200$ AP games with 6 million others and hope to win 40$ at the end of it but most would find that a waste of time.

I just had a quick look at your points4prizes! Only 70,000 points for a Billy Connelly DVD, that reads to me like: Pay 700$ in rake get a 20$ DVD (probably costs less). That sure sounds like value to me! So let's see what would 25% rb return on 700$ rake... Hmmmm... now which would I prefer :rolleyes:

You may see it whatever way you like and raise holy war on THE BIG BAD sites. We are just running a business and trying to do whats best for the future of the industry we work in.

And whether you like it or not we as poker players will play on the sites that we feel we are better value and feel they are getting treated properly. Just as your comment previously about wearing PPP gear if you qualify for a major event, that we could like it or lump it, we as players have the choice of who we pay our rake to. So you can (and will) do what you want.

As far as I see it you can either listen to potential players or treat them like idiots thinking this will make you a few extra $'s from the players on the 0.10/0.20 tables who've never heard of rakeback or you could wise up to the fact that 70% of something is better that 100% of nothing.

Ste05

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

STE - Ultimately if you start a price war something will have to give, if poker is to live on the periphery of margin then the problem is that something will have to suffer to make up the difference. Ultimately the danger is that it could lead to the demise of the online industry itself when as a result of price war the business diminishes and becomes unprofitable and unfeasable.
What do you think is going to happen if all sites adopt this policy? Think about it.. Where do we go from there? More rakeback? How about no rake now there is a teaser!

Lets be honest here, Pit-Boss, name one industry that has collapsed due to a Price War?? It's bad for the inefficient companies in the market, because they can't keep up, but if anything it helps the industry as a whole, (for us consumers)
If every site adopted RB, then they'd just reduce the "Super-Normal" profits that they are currently earning, until they reach an equilibrium point and the market settles down. Also No rake sites will appear in the future I'm sure. But how does that hurt the industry, it only hurts the on-line Poker companies bottom line. They'll have to earn their revenue from other sources. Look at Ryanair, they basically fly people for free, but make their revenue by other means.

Imposter

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

STE - Ultimately if you start a price war something will have to give, if poker is to live on the periphery of margin then the problem is that something will have to suffer to make up the difference. Ultimately the danger is that it could lead to the demise of the online industry itself when as a result of price war the business diminishes and becomes unprofitable and unfeasable.

Am I reading that right! Online poker is unbeleivably profitable! Look at Party's figures for last year or any other public accounts of the online companies. The only real costs you have are support and marketing. There's a hell of a long way to go before it becomes unprofitable. If you were working on 20% of the current rake I might have more pity but no doubt you'd still be profitable.

We wish to be more inventive with our retention spending and use it to grow the industry rather than diminish it.

Why would rakeback diminish it?

Samba

5starpool wrote:

These promotions (I assume freerolls and their ilk) are only played by a specific subset of people

Unfortunately this subset of people are probably account for most of the profit margins PPP make, PPP are not very Poker Player Orientated imo, more commercially, the irony of this however is that the good players will generate more rake than your average Joe Soap coming to play for a bit of craic as we Irish say..

Personally I would target the better players and market a poker product very much aimed at good players as your profit margins will greatly increase over the long run, over the short term it may not appear to be feesible to be as generous as some people would like but in the long your profits I would imagine would be far greater, the bonuses your reward to loyal players will inevitably be given back to you in the form of rake.

Samba

Imposter wrote:

Am I reading that right! Online poker is unbeleivably profitable! Look at Party's figures for last year or any other public accounts of the online companies. The only real costs you have are support and marketing. There's a hell of a long way to go before it becomes unprofitable. If you were working on 20% of the current rake I might have more pity but no doubt you'd still be profitable.

Why would rakeback diminish it?

There is more to it than marketing, there are network operator fees(I know the figures but I will not divulge them here, it is costly), there is Customer Support, there is marketing as you state, there is other staff, set up fees and much much more.

[Disclaimer]
BTW - none of the above which I have said is information I acquired while working for PPP and so I would just like to point out that I am not in breach of Contract as an x PPP employee [/Disclaimer]

FastMachine

I don't see how PPP are rewarding their best customers, the one's who are paying by far the most rake. Action points are useless if you play above 3/6. In other industries the best customers are usually given special treatment to keep them on board and as a sign of goodwill. PPP give the best treatment to their lowest paying customers with these action point freerolls and prizes.

Luckily, I was warned a few weeks ago rakeback was about to be shutdown in the very near future so I went ahead and set up a rb account on another site before the deadline. I'd say I was paying by far the most rake of anyone on PPP. Now a different site is making a few grand a week from my rake. As Imposter said 70% of something would have been better than 100% of nothing for PPP. Every other full timer at 5/10 and 10/20 on Tribeca has switched to rakeback in the last few months so I wasn't going to be the odd one out.

RoundTower

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

Points for Prizes will go live very shortly

LOL.

Lafortezza

FastMachine wrote:

I don't see how PPP are rewarding their best customers, the one's who are paying by far the most rake.

PPP's best customers are the ones who fill the low stakes STT's and the low limit cash games. They may not pay the same level of rake per person as the higher stakes players, but they make up for it in sheeer volume of numbers.

That's why the small freerolls and giveaways and freebies are aimed at the low stakes players.

Does anyone know if/when PPP last offered a reload or deposit bonus? Something worthwhile to those who play higher than 50c/$1 NL?

ianmc38

lafortezza wrote:

Does anyone know if/when PPP last offered a reload or deposit bonus? Something worthwhile to those who play higher than 50c/$1 NL?

No idea. All i ever got from them was entry into a few measly freerolls. I have 150k paddy points sitting in my account for the last year or so.

The "specials" for the higher stakes players must be the annual 7.5k freeroll.

RoundTower

lafortezza wrote:

Does anyone know if/when PPP last offered a reload or deposit bonus? Something worthwhile to those who play higher than 50c/$1 NL?

They gave out a free $50 to everyone at the SE Christmas event, and they had some kind of free $101 offer going that I took up at the same time. But other than that they haven't done much to get me to play there.

hotspur

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

This is a business not unlike any other business, not at all unlike any business that you yourselves probably work in.

I think that a lot of people would disagree that the gambling business is not unlike any other business, otherwise governements wouldn't be trying to shut elements of it down. Between 30 and 45% of the gambling industries' revenues come from problem gamblers (depending on which section of the industry, slots being the worst), I think this makes it very different from most work people involve themselves in (off topic, but since you brought it up).

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

Rakeback is a great marketing tool. It is really amazing how gullible people really are... the MORE YOU PLAY THE MORE MONEY WE GIVE YOU!

So the players on this forum who habitually contribute thousands of dollars per month in rake and switch to a site with rakeback on the same network to get $1k+ back per month are really gullible morons? I'm not sure if that is more disingenuous than it is insulting.
The red herring of thresholds aside it is entirely ludicrous to argue that rakeback is not good for players.

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

Ultimately the danger is that it could lead to the demise of the online industry itself when as a result of price war the business diminishes and becomes unprofitable and unfeasable.

Trying to argue that the industry would become unfeasible if it competed on the basis of rake is a nonsense, we all know that it would just mean that smaller sites *might* become unfeasible, and while that is obviously an issue for PPP it wouldn't matter a damn to us players if the overcrowded market were subjected to the Darwinian market forces that exist in other industries that aren't predicated on the gullibility of customers.

Rakeback is good for players and bad for the sites, why complicate the matter by arguing that what is bad for the sites is ultimately bad for the players and will lead to inferior products and service?
As for the argument that better things can be done by a site for its players than offer rakeback, this is almost certainly incorrect from a players' perspective as the $ spent on any other promotion will certainly be less than the $ spent giving rakeback, so it will be less good for the vast majority of players but will be better for a small few who do well in freerolls.

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

You may see it whatever way you like and raise holy war on THE BIG BAD sites. We are just running a business and trying to do whats best for the future of the industry we work in.

A company was muscled out of offering poker customers better value for money in order to protect the profits of bigger gambling companies on the same network, its status as a network partner aside, in other industries and jurisdictions such behaviour may be considered illegal.

(And really it's because we don't watch wrestling anymore and don't have baddies to boo )

ianmc38

PPP runs for the hills.