[article] Navan would already have a rail link if Green Party in power

NavanJunction1

(Navan railway mentioned in Trevor Sargent's speech. According to the
Green Party leader, Navan would already have a rail link if Green
Party was in power)

[article] FF legacy of 'bribery and corruption', say Greens
Ireland.com, Last updated: 25-03-06, 16:03

Green Party leader Trevor Sargent today launched a stinging attack on the Fianna Fail saying the country could no longer afford to be ruled by the current Government.

Speaking at annual conference in Kilkenny he said that that for all the Taoiseach's talk of community values, the reality was that the poor were getting poorer and developers were the big winners.

They in turn bankrolled Fianna Fail and their Progressive Democrat "poodles", he said. Land rezoning profits which could be diverted to provide new communities with basic facilities were instead lining the pockets of wealthy speculators, he said.

"Under this government you'd be more likely to get a pub and a bookies shop than the amenities so many communities are crying out for," he said. Mr Sargent added: "Bribery, corruption and bad planning are a legacy of Fianna Fail domination in Government, locally and nationally."

Greens in power would implement the recommendations of the Kenny Report which proposed a windfall tax on development land - a proposals based on the principle that communities, rather than developers, should benefit from rezoning.

He said his party would build 10,000 social housing units a year until the waiting lists were cleared and would double insulation standards in every new home - giving families warmer places in which to live and saving them money at the same time.

The Government had spent billions on commuter motorways which had failed, he said during an attack on transport policy.

"This is a government which values the volume of construction ahead of good design. This is a Government that has spent four times more on new roads than on new public transport," said Mr Sargent.

If ministers had taken the Green's advice and switched the spending ratio around, there would already be a Western rail corridor linking Limerick, Galway, Sligo and Cork.

There would also be a commuter rail service to Navan and "an extensive light rail system throughout the Dublin area that actually joins up," he said.

Earlier the party chairman, John Gormley, told the conference they needed to embark on a "myth-busting campaign" to deal with government attacks on them ahead of the election. He said he agreed with Michael McDowell that a smaller party would play a pivotal role in the next election.

It would be up to the voters to choose whether it was the PDs again or the Greens. And dismissing Mr McDowell's description of them as 'sandal wearers' he said they would always prefer sandals to jackboots.

silverside

hmm

so we would have a railway to navan, the western rail corridor, and no doubt the dart to dingle as well.

no word on how we would pay for it all.

don't get me wrong i agree with a lot of the greens' aims however in this country, i would agree with mcdowells portrayal of them as sandal wearers. i would actually love to see them sharing power with FF as they might get a dose of reality blended with their policies.

NavanJunction1

The WRC is a different project all right, and is was mentioned ahead of the Navan link.

But if the Green's do end up in power with Fianna Fáil I'll be more than happy to remind them about the Navan rail link and integration promises.

I would hazard to say that the Green's would have much more interest in Navan's railway than Fianna Fáil.

It was good to see that the Green's have decided that they wouldn't alter Corporation Tax as well - I sometimes worry about tinkering with that, especially as many of these multinationals would just up and go if they were increased.

bandraoi

I wonder where they'd run the rail link to avoid all the archaeology in the area?

BrianD

bandraoi wrote:

I wonder where they'd run the rail link to avoid all the archaeology in the area?

Probably along some of the old alignment. No infrastructure is going to avoid digging up and going over the past.

What most people don't understand that an archaelogical find doesn't stop a road. Most while interesting are just logged, mapped and either removed or reburied. The route construction gives an opportunity to discover these. Obviously a significant find can hold things up and rightly so. Then there is just sheer stupidity by professionals and civil servants who are paid very well to know better. If wasn't for the ineptitude of these people the delays of the M50 could be avoided as could the long debate over the M3 that will be built anyway as it is needed for the property developers. The long suffering commuters of Co. Meath could have had their problems solved years ago.

NavanJunction1

bandraoi wrote:

I wonder where they'd run the rail link to avoid all the archaeology in the area?

The old allignment is more or less intact. And where it isn't possible to use the old allignment (Possible Kilmessan for example), it is worth bearing in mind that railways are economical with land use and don't involve the same depth or scale of digging that motorways do.

The most obvious benefits of the Navan line will not be found in Meath, but rather in Dublin at Blanchardstown where there will be stubstantial reduction in traffic volumes. Whether the people of Dublin 15 know this or not, Navan's rail link should substantially ease their traffic congestion problems.

Chris_533976

NavanJunction1 wrote:

Green Party leader Trevor Sargent today launched a stinging attack on the Fianna Fail saying the country could no longer afford to be ruled by the current Government.

Speaking at annual conference in Kilkenny he said that that for all the Taoiseach's talk of community values, the reality was that the poor were getting poorer and developers were the big winners.

They in turn bankrolled Fianna Fail and their Progressive Democrat "poodles", he said. Land rezoning profits which could be diverted to provide new communities with basic facilities were instead lining the pockets of wealthy speculators, he said.

"Under this government you'd be more likely to get a pub and a bookies shop than the amenities so many communities are crying out for," he said. Mr Sargent added: "Bribery, corruption and bad planning are a legacy of Fianna Fail domination in Government, locally and nationally."


The Government had spent billions on commuter motorways which had failed, he said during an attack on transport policy.

"This is a government which values the volume of construction ahead of good design. This is a Government that has spent four times more on new roads than on new public transport," said Mr Sargent.

"an extensive light rail system throughout the Dublin area that actually joins up," he said.

I'd vote for the Greens simply because they have said here the truest things to come out of Government/Party circles in years.

dbnavan

bandraoi wrote:

I wonder where they'd run the rail link to avoid all the archaeology in the area?

The main purposed route of the rail link is to link up with drogheda and upgrade the exsisting line, therefore it will go nowhere near the dig sites, when did the greens propose this line, first I heard about it was when Damian English was running for TD, i could be wrong but somehow doubt the greens mentioned it before then as they dont even have a rep on Meath CC or any of the urban councils.

Maskhadov

They should press ahead with the rail line to Navan and evenutally run it all the way to Cavan

MarkoP11

The line runs west of the N3 and M3 the whole way to just outside Navan, Tara being to the east of the N/M3. None of the surveys done have identified anything that requires archaeological investigation. The bulk of trackbed and most of the structures are still in place so the environmental impact of reopening is quite limited

There are no plans to upgrade the Drogheda Navan line, Meath CC even proposed closing it in a draft plans of some years ago. The line could be in passenger use in under 2 years and there is space to fit in Navan Drogheda Dublin services despite the spin IE put out

Maskhadov wrote:

They should press ahead with the rail line to Navan and evenutally run it all the way to Cavan

Given there never was a railway line from Navan to Cavan thats highly unlikely

Dublin Cavan was via Inny Junction which is well beyond Mullingar, that was also the indirect way to Derry

the_syco

He said his party would build 10,000 social housing units a year until the waiting lists were cleared and would double insulation standards in every new home - giving families warmer places in which to live and saving them money at the same time.

Yea. And who would pay for them? Us. And how? Tax's. No doubt stealth tax's.
They'd proberly have a new name for them, but it'd be the same thing.

NavanJunction1

MarkoP11 wrote:

Given there never was a railway line from Navan to Cavan thats highly unlikely

Ah, well. My favourite double eye bridge at Virginia road tells me that there was once a plan to extend the Kells line from there to Virginia in Cavan.

Talking years ago obviously. But I just can't help but think that with traffic the way it is, a small porton of what is expended on roads should be spent on rail development.

Given that MarkoP11 is the best man at railway costings etc that I know, I'd never argue with him on figures. But I do have to admit that I'd love to see a better rail network heading this part of the country - if only to make travelling to work in Dublin just that little bit easier..

Oh, and Mark is right. IÉ could not give a flying 'f' about Navan Drogheda. I believe that they used a different costing structure for Navan Drogheda than they did for Cork- Middleton or the WRC.

Any takers on that?

MarkoP11 wrote:

Tara being to the east of the N/M3.

Tara is to the west of the N/M3.

Zebra3

Maskhadov wrote:

They should press ahead with the rail line to Navan and evenutally run it all the way to Cavan

Why stop there? Why not send it all the why to Derry? Serving places like Omagh along the way with a possible spur off into Donegal.

jlang

Navan fine, but extending to Cavan would only encourage people trying to commute to Dublin from that far. Easing the traffic on the motorway (and building new ones) seems to only encourage people coming from farther and farther.

DerekP11

Just to correct my colleague and ensure fairness to the original poster.

Navan did and still does have a rail connection to Cavan.

Its to Kingscourt in COUNTY CAVAN. (A fair distance from Cavan town.)

monument

the_syco wrote:

Yea. And who would pay for them? Us. And how? Tax's. No doubt stealth tax's.
They'd proberly have a new name for them, but it'd be the same thing.

I'm sure in part by not building at least as many new roads.

Beekeeper

Is there a factory or mine at Kingscourt? When did the railway line close?

MarkoP11

Line closed 2001 Irish Cement went to road haulage as it was cheaper and didn't go on strike like IE

There was a gypsum mine of some kind there

Kingscourt is another dead end station

Folks need to calm down all this talk of Cavan and Derry is a way too far given the chances for the line to Navan its on the extermely long finger. As was posted earlier the costings seem to vary wildly differences as to add or remove a 0 on end of the cost figure

Last time I checked Derry to Dublin has a rail service (and man it needs help to keep it in place), it requires 1 change and its the fastest rail route that has existed between the two cities

Zebra3

MarkoP11 wrote:

Last time I checked Derry to Dublin has a rail service (and man it needs help to keep it in place), it requires 1 change and its the fastest rail route that has existed between the two cities

Ever get the train from Belfast to Derry? Shocking experience.

John R

Zebra3 wrote:

Ever get the train from Belfast to Derry? Shocking experience.

Exactly, the line is in bits and the rolling stock is ropey.

The Derry-Belfast line has been very close to being closed several times over the past few decades. As late as last year there were real doubts over it's viability.

Given that a functional working line with reasonable traffic is struggling to survive how the hell do you think a brand new construction with limited market potential could be a possibility?

There is far too much fantasy railway planning on these boards. The reality is that there are not many inter-city routes in Ireland that can come close to supporting operational costs never mind the astronomical input for a new build.

Commuter services to/from Dublin is the only area where the requirement and benefit is high enough to justify new lines.

Inter-urban services can in many cases be better served by road transport at a tiny fraction of the cost of rail operations.

BrianD

Well there is economic sense in building a rail line to Navan (50km in length?) given that Dublin is going to expand northwards at a faster rate than other directions. The construction of the M3, N2 and the existing M1 can only imply that that stated objective is massive development within the north Leinster region.

D'Peoples Voice

NavanJunction1 wrote:

According to the Green Party leader, Navan would already have a rail link if Green Party was in power)

If ministers had taken the Green's advice and switched the spending ratio around, there would already be a Western rail corridor linking Limerick, Galway, Sligo and Cork.

Is this the same Green Party who opposed Dublin turning into what they called a doughnut city? If so, one could argue they are contradicting themselves to a degree.
Assume Dublin had fewer surburbs, and less people moved to Navan,
likewise in the west, more people lived in Galway city rather than around around it and long the WRC, then we wouldn't need these rail links the Green party speaks of.
The green party have been saying for years that we should not be building out from the cities, but should be increasing their population density. I agree. Because if we did this, then we wouldn't need the rail links they say we need.
But they say they would have built them by now, which by definition suggests they would not have been against the idea of moving people out from the city or it means they would be all for running unviable services!

monument

I’m inclined to believe you’re smarter then you’re trying to make out you are.

The rail services to the suburbs are needed now because the idea of higher population density in Dublin was ignored in the past.