just wondering...

Dord

do any of you get funny looks from people when you tell them you're an atheist? i got many funny looks from people recently when i was asked what i was giving up for lent.

also when i said to my religion teacher in secondary school many years ago what my views were, i got a lot of trouble from other people that were in my class.
apparently people in ireland are still under the spell of catholicism. any other religion or view is seen as bad by them, i hate that.:mad:

Aporia

Well I'm still in school but in second year I used to have these arguements with my religion teacher and I got all the "tut tuting" and "young people these days - think it's cool to be against religion"

Anyone that gives me a funny look because they find out I'm agnostial or an atheist or whatever is'nt worth taking to really.

Crucifix

I remember a time when people were suprised to find out someone was an atheist. At this point in my life I'm more suprised to find out a peer is catholic.

Dord

well the thing is, i only realised what it was called when i was in 4th year in secondary school.i knew what i believed, just not what it was called, or if there was even a name. i had a discussion with my religion teacher about it, he told me what it was called. he respected my views and said that i can take part in any of the catholic discussions if i feel like it or just sleep or anything else. the problems i had were with classmates. i just feel that, maybe we should have more respect in society. people with religions other than catholicism seem to have more respect than us.:(

( yes i realise theres a thread below that is on a similar point but i just wanted to get this out in my own thread)

samb

Welcome Joe,
I take it that you are only out of school recently by the way you said 'apparently people in ireland are still under the spell of catholicism'. Can I hazard a guess that your school was in a rural area. I think townies generally pick up on changes in society quicker (and learn to live with different types of people). A good example of this is homosexuality, I read a thread about gay teenagers coming out in school, In my school, in the country, this would not be an option. Don't mean to slate country people too much, I am one after all.
I think we shouldn't be too impatient about change not coming quick enough, Irish society is definely going in the right direction.

Dord

thanks.
i'm out of school about 2 years. and actually i'm living in dublin, on the northside. i just find it strange that peoples attitude just changes in a split second when i mention that. i can imagine it would be a lot worse down the country, i know from going down to visit relatives. its actually one reason why i stopped going down, they expected me to go to mass with them.:mad:
yeh well, as for people coming out, we dont generally see that in school up here. college is more of a place where that happens.

Tar.Aldarion

Crucifix wrote:

I remember a time when people were suprised to find out someone was an atheist. At this point in my life I'm more suprised to find out a peer is catholic.

I would be shocked to find out if somebody I knew was a catholic...
A lot of people don't even know what an agnostic is... so I get confusion sometimes.

robindch

> do any of you get funny looks from people when you tell them you're an atheist?

I told one relative that philosophically, I was agnostic, but functionally an atheist and her response was "well, thank god for your agnosticism"

the real ramon

Back when I was in school- many moons ago (I finished in '91) there was no time for religion for most people- when we got a copy of the Gideon bible both sides of the class had a big fight with each other by throwing them at each other- they were torn up and treated with the utmost disrespect- I think possibly one person I new in school might have believed but that would have been it. I'd be very surprised also if I met anyone around my age whoreally believed Catholicism TBH Protestants who believed I've known a few and I wouldn't be surprised by meeting a Protestant who believed, but a Catholic? - not in my neck of the woods!

legspin

joe robot wrote:

do any of you get funny looks from people when you tell them you're an atheist?

I have a madien aunt who still prays that I will come back to "We in the Know" as she calls catholics. Lasdt time she said that to me I said 'I'll curse you then and we will compare notes in the afterlife, to see who was the more accurate'

Funnily enough she hasn't spoken to me since:D

bobbi

I'm not really sure how it comes up for you but if it does I'll put them straight i'm an atheist young ppl are pretty cool about it but when my granparents ask me i kinda change the subject not coz i'm ashamed but i like them to believe what they like.Does anyone else do that with their granparents?

the real ramon

bobbi wrote:

when my granparents ask me i kinda change the subject not coz i'm ashamed but i like them to believe what they like.Does anyone else do that with their granparents?

With all my elderly relatives I do the same and with an elderly man (90-something!) on my road who is very nice. I don't like to see the oldies dismayed by modern Ireland and what little hope I can give them I think is good. Generally I'll answer something like 'Ah yeah a Christian attitude is important to have' and leave it like that, I wouldn't mention anything about Agnostic-who-learns-from-everywhere-including-Paganism.

Asiaprod

joe robot wrote:

do any of you get funny looks from people when you tell them you're an atheist?

In my case, as a Buddhist, which is an atheist, I find they are for a time very interested, but it always come back to them thinking that I still believe in a God in the form of Buddha which of course he was not.

samb

Asiaprod wrote:

In my case, as a Buddhist, which is an atheist, I find they are for a time very interested, but it always come back to them thinking that I still believe in a God in the form of Buddha which of course he was not.

Buddhist = Athiest
is this not debatable, do all buddhist agree on this? Is there not any supernatural element to Buddhism? Excuse my ignorance but I know very little about what you actually believe. It is certainly classed as a religion by most people, is it not?, and is it not?

Asiaprod

samb wrote:

Buddhist = Athiest
is this not debatable, do all buddhist agree on this?

Honest question samb, and the answer depends to a degree on the tradition of Buddhism followed. So one form of Buddhist could very well be worshiping a God.
I do not. For me:

Buddhist = Atheist, correct
Is there not any supernatural element to Buddhism, wrong, for me. it different.

Thanks for asking, hope this answers you question. Atheist to the core, my friend, but respectful of the beliefs of others, but only partially for creationists, they bum me out.

The following lays it on the line, others may deviate, I don"t



• Is Buddhism a Religion? To many, Buddhism goes beyond religion and is more of a philosophy or 'way of life'. It is a philosophy because philosophy 'means love of wisdom' and the Buddhist path can be summed up as:
(1) to lead a moral life, (2) to be mindful and aware of thoughts and actions, and (3) to develop wisdom and understanding.

• Was the Buddha a God? He was not, nor did he claim to be. He was a man who taught a path to enlightenment from his own experience.

• Are There Different Types of Buddhism? There are many different types of Buddhism, because the emphasis changes from country to country due to customs and culture. What does not vary is the essence of the teaching — the Dhamma or truth

• Are Other Religions Wrong? Buddhism is also a belief system which is tolerant of all other beliefs or religions. Buddhism agrees with the moral teachings of other religions but Buddhism goes further by providing a long term purpose within our existence, through wisdom and true understanding. Real Buddhism is very tolerant and not concerned with labels like 'Christian', 'Moslem', 'Hindu' or 'Buddhist'; that is why there have never been any wars fought in the name of Buddhism. That is why Buddhists do not preach and try to convert, only explain if an explanation is sought.

• Do Buddhists Worship Idols? Buddhists sometimes pay respect to images of the Buddha, not in worship, nor to ask for favours. A statue of the Buddha with hands rested gently in its lap and a compassionate smile reminds us to strive to develop peace and love within ourselves. Bowing to the statue is an expression of gratitude for the teaching.


Pssss, the bit that says "That is why Buddhists do not preach"
, they love to:)

samb

Asiaprod,
That all seems quite agreable, perhaps I am a Buddhist just did not know it till now.
but what are these teachings that make it a religion? How are your beliefs different from mine (if your not familiar enough with my beliefs from this boards, you could probably use Dawkins or Robinch as a template). If I used the term Buddhist to describe myself tomorrow, what believes would I have to change or actions perform, inorder to be using the word accurately in your view.

Should we not change this forum to the Athiest/Agnostic/Buddhist forum? You say it goes beyond religion, but is it still not a religion?

Thanks

pH

I would have thought that the belief in reincarnation would have to be called supernatural - is this not so? It is my experience that very few who declare themselves atheists would subscribe to the belief that they will return in another body/species later on.

Does Buddhism have any official position on 'public moral' issues -
Homosexuality, prostitution, drug use, sex before marriage etc etc?

Asiaprod

samb wrote:

Asiaprod,
That all seems quite agreable, perhaps I am a Buddhist just did not know it till now.
but what are these teachings that make it a religion? How are your beliefs different from mine (if your not familiar enough with my beliefs from this boards, you could probably use Dawkins or Robinch as a template). If I used the term Buddhist to describe myself tomorrow, what believes would I have to change or actions perform, inorder to be using the word accurately in your view.

Should we not change this forum to the Athiest/Agnostic/Buddhist forum? You say it goes beyond religion, but is it still not a religion?

Thanks

samb, I will come back to this as I want to give thought to my answer. Re joining Buddhism with Atheist/Agnostic, it should stay in Buddhism IMHO. Buddhists straddle many systems, we see good things in all things, and bad too.

Asiaprod

pH wrote:

I would have thought that the belief in reincarnation would have to be called supernatural - is this not so? It is my experience that very few who declare themselves atheists would subscribe to the belief that they will return in another body/species later on.

Does Buddhism have any official position on 'public moral' issues -
Homosexuality, prostitution, drug use, sex before marriage etc etc?

Again I worry, I feel we Buddists are guests here and I don't want to hog the ether.

Very briefly, Supernatural, no because in my way, the part of us that moves on is us evolving as everything has since the dawn of creation. To people like me, I move on. I know me, I know I am not supernatural. Remember, I said many flavors of Buddism are out there. Re Atheist, I stated very clearly that these where my oppinions. As far as I am concerned, I am an Atheist, I do not believe in a God.
One of the problems that arise when we try to catagorize anything is we can never come up with a criteria that accounts for, and satisfies, all the differences out there.:)

Take it from me, I am an atheist. If I am wrong, I won't be the first to have got it wrong, and I won't be the last;)

pH

pH wrote:

I would have thought that the belief in reincarnation would have to be called supernatural - is this not so? It is my experience that very few who declare themselves atheists would subscribe to the belief that they will return in another body/species later on.

Does Buddhism have any official position on 'public moral' issues -
Homosexuality, prostitution, drug use, sex before marriage etc etc?

Except for one or two traditions, it's really rebirth as opposed to reincarnation...
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/reincarnation.htm
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/dharmadata/fdd47.htm

I guess in some ways you could regard it as supernatural but many don't.
In any case, you can take many of the teachings and apply them without having to believe in reincarnation/rebirth.
The only relevant "official position" I can think of are the 5 (or 8 for monastics) precepts...

No sexual misconduct is one of the precepts, but I suppose that can be left up to interpretation.
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda04.htm

Question:
The Third Precept says we should avoid sexual misconduct. What is sexual misconduct?

Answer:
If we use trickery, emotional blackmail or force to compel someone to have sex with us, then this is sexual misconduct. Adultery is also a form of sexual misconduct because when we marry we promise our spouse we will be loyal to them. When we commit adultery we break that promise and betray their trust. Sex should be an expression of love and intimacy between two people and when it is it contributes to our mental and emotional well-being.

Question:
Is sex before marriage a type of sexual misconduct?

Answer:
Not if there is love and mutual agreement between the two people. However it should never be forgotten that the biological function of sex is to reproduce and if an unmarried woman becomes pregnant it can cause a great deal of problems. Many mature and thoughtful people think it is far better to leave sex until after marriage.

I certainly amn't up there with the "no sex before marriage" thing, personally.

Drug use - no intoxicating substances should be taken, including alcohol. I suppose there are buddhists that drink (including me - I hope I'm not the only one anyway), but I suppose would do it in great moderation, don't overdo it.
Homosexuality would have to fall under your interpretation of the sexual misconduct bit. I think the dalai lama said it was fine by him, though.

I should really stop drinking

Oh and as for buddhist = atheist, I'd have to disagree on that one if Asia was applying it in a general sense. Theistic buddhism aside, I'd regard it more as agnosticism or not caring. I personally am happy enough to accept the existance of the gods, I suppose, I just don't worship them. If they do exist, they're stuck in the same cycle we are if on a longer scale. So it's all irrelevant, really.

Oh and I prefer having seperate forums

Asiaprod

bluewolf wrote:

Homosexuality would have to fall under your interpretation of the sexual misconduct bit. I think the dalai lama said it was fine by him, though....Oh and as for buddhist = atheist, I'd have to disagree on that one if Asia was applying it in a general sense.

No, the Dalai Lama is very clear on this an other issues.
No oral sex
No anal sex
Homsexuality (and the female equivilent) are not allowed.


Then there is a whole seperate lot of no nos for the monks and priests.

It is also interesting to read the original book of Seven Years in Tibet as this helps to put the country and culture under which the Dalai Lama grew up into perspective. He is the living God of Tibet, he grew up accepting that the people see him as the living God. He say some great things, but others are circumspect for me. The Buddha declared himself to be mortal, he made no references to any Gods. The Buddha never said that we would become Gods. Buddhism is all about equality and self-awarness. In developing the potentials that exist withing.. We are all equal and we all have the potential to achieve enlightenment. If there were Gods there would not be equality. What are refered to as Gods are really the influences or potentials that exist around us, probably best understood by likening them to the I Ching. It is humankind that has attached labels such as Gods and deities to help them understand. The same holds true of the individual mentioned in the various parables, they are just that, stories that try to emphasis a particular point.

Again, please remember that there are many schools of Buddhism, and this is the belief of my school and is not a general statement covering all Buddhists.

If any one would like to take this further please bring it over to the Buddhism forum where I would feel more comfortable debating it. In the case of this forum, as I stated before, I will do so again, As far as I am concerned I am an Atheist, I believe in no Gods. I believe that a God is a human construct.

bluewolf wrote:

I should really stop drinking

Then you would only have to find something to replace it with

Asiaprod

Asiaprod wrote:

No, the Dalai Lama is very clear on this an other issues.
No oral sex
No anal sex
Homsexuality (and the female equivilent) are not allowed.

I was sure I read a report a while ago saying it was fine. Guess I'd better look that up.

Then you would only have to find something to replace it with

I don't do it that much anyway.

And on that note, I too will stop hijacking this forum for our discussion

Asiaprod

bluewolf wrote:

I was sure I read a report a while ago saying it was fine. Guess I'd better look that up.

Here ya go. 21st paragraph, crystal clear.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/04/01/wdalai01.xml