A mini 'sustainable economics' project - anyone interested?

DSLC

I've put together a site which - at the moment - is largely a basis for discussion. The address is http://hl.afraid.org/ . If the project goes ahead, it would be similar to the FreeCycle idea, except broader - in the sense that it would facilitate lending as well as giving things away, and would attempt to extend the idea to services as well as items.

As it says on the site, it would be "an attempt to facilitate economic activity which does not rely on money or direct exchange - or which is at least far less money-centric. It is not for selling items or services. It's not for barter either. To put it crudely, it would be about offering items and services for free."

Why did I post this in the Green Issues forum? Our level of consumption has a huge effect on the environment, so I thought this was the most appropriate place to discuss it. I hope that's ok!

The address (might only be temporary) for the website - again - is: http://hl.afraid.org/ It's not properly open at the moment, but you can make test posts.

Please let me know what you think ( as long as you're polite! ). Even if only a few people express interest, I think it might still be worth doing.

silverharp

Have you thought about developing a community "currency" to go along side this. People could earn a unit of currency for carring out some non economic service and could the trade for something else, I'm sure you are aware of the concept but must admit if would take some orgainising, From memory Richard Douthwaith (author) has setup some small scheme in the west of Ireland

DSLC

Hi silverharp,
I have come across the idea of alternative/community currencies/monies before - albeit not Richard Douthwaite's thoughts on the idea specifically. Any sort of money, though, (whether it's alternative or not) is just a medium of exchange, and one of the notions I would like this project to implicitly challenge, or question, is that exchange itself is always necessary for economic activity.

The sort of project I would be interested in would be closer to the concept of a Gift Economy. I hesitate to use the term, largely because - without qualification - it seems to suggest an economic system which relies entirely on altruism (people giving their time and energy without demanding anything in return). Nevertheless, it's the closest concept I'm aware of.

The model that makes sense to me is one where the amount that a person/group receives in return is only one of a number of factors taken into account when considering whether or not they should give their item or service. Other factors might include: how much a person actually needs the item or service, or to what extent it will be useful to them; what the recipient will actually use the item for (do their objectives conflict with your own?); the environmental impact of increasing production or service; the level of desire or need in the person to be actually doing something. To focus solely on how much one is receiving in return, while ignoring possible other factors, seems crudely reductive. I'm not at all implying that traditional economic activity neglects these factors entirely; I'm hypothesizing that it's too 'exchange-centric' to provide a sustainable economy.

I suspect this longer a response than you wanted, but I just wanted to thrash these ideas out anyway.

silverharp

The idea of a gift economy is new to me, my first thought is that outside of a tight social group it would be taken advantage off, the welfare state is the ultimate "gift economy" and look how well that works. My other thought is that people generally don't like accepting help/charity

I don't know if your ideas tie in with a website like "i will if you will", I havn't been on it but I gather it's a way of getting something done in your community that you would be too embarrassed to do yourself.
An example comes to mind, I live in Sandymount and the beach is generally a mess, now I'm not about to head out one Sunday morning collecting rubbish off the beach for obvious reasons, but if one had a mechanism for getting involved, it would certainly made it easier , the community currency would be another mechanism for achieving this goal.

I havn't been on your website yet but If I have time will drop on

DSLC

I have reservations about community currencies for reasons that aren't appropriate to go into here (..it would probably be considered outside the forum charter, and I think I'm pushing my luck as it is), but - in brief - I wouldn't be particularly interested in a project which relied, or perhaps even depended to any significant extent, on them.

I don't know if your ideas tie in with a website like "i will if you will", I havn't been on it but I gather it's a way of getting something done in your community that you would be too embarrassed to do yourself.

Sounds like PledgeBank? It seems like a clever, and worthwhile, initiative.

I havn't been on your website yet but If I have time will drop on

It's pretty plain to look at, even though the Content Management System that's running it ( Drupal ) is fairly sophisticated.

Thanks for your thoughts.

meditraitor

I like your idea,
Check these guy's out, they might be interested in throwing a few dollars at you to get set up

A NEW organisation called Social Entrepreneurs Ireland (SEI) plans to spend €1m this year backing people who are not interested in generating profits, but want to solve social problems.

Led by managing director Sean Coughlan, SEI has already supported 26 social entrepreneurs nationwide.

"Over the next twelve months SEI is looking to double its pipeline of potential social entrepreneurs, increase its network of awardees by over 15, and to engage with business and academic communities to promote social entrepreneurship," Mr Coughlan said.

SEI is currently supporting projects ranging from working with disadvantaged children to supporting minority community organisations, to protecting the environment and promoting active citizenship.

Mr Coughlan argues that despite the great improvements in Irish society over the last fifteen years, there are still major social issues confronting us.

" For instance," he said, "alcohol abuse and binge drinking is increasing; racist behaviour in Ireland is more widespread and visible; according to Unicef 15.7pc of Irish children live in poverty, and in the last year there were 400 suicides, over 10,000 known attempted suicides and potentially as many as 60,000 attempted suicides."

SEI believes that social entrepreneurs could develop ground-breaking solutions "to tackle old problems in new ways".

"SEI is looking for high-potential, entrepreneurial individuals with innovative, sustainable ideas with high- growth potential that will help tackle social problems in Ireland," Mr Coughlan said.

"SEI believes that innovation and social change in Ireland will only be driven by exceptional individuals with exceptional ideas. That is why SEI supports people, not organisations," he said.

SEI supports social entrepreneurs by providing financial assistance, as well as teaching them how to build sustainable effective organisations. It is funded by a number of philanthropic foundations and Dublin City University, and is beginning to link up with the Irish business community, as well as other third level institutions.

An important focus of SEI is to link social entrepreneurs with each other, said Mr Coughlan.

"Having a network provides social entrepreneurs with practical advice and support and, perhaps, more importantly, moral support from their peers, people who have chosen the same path and are facing the same challenges as themselves," he said.

"There is a growing momentum behind the concept of social entrepreneurship internationally," he said. "Social entrepreneurs have powerful ideas to improve lives and have implemented them across cities, countries and in some cases, the world," Mr Coughlan said.

"The Social Entrepreneurs Ireland model is informed by successful international models, but at the same time is uniquely designed to take into account the particular challenges and opportunities that Ireland presents."

Capt'n Midnight

re "community currencies"

IIRC if you use tokens/points instead of straight barter then the revenue would be entitle to tax the tokens, as they would claim they are just a form of tax-evasion.

So free is a lot less hassle,

lending might have problems, how do you force people to return stuff, what happens if they damage it, what happens if someone hurts/kills them self with borrowed stuff, do you leave a deposit, could the lender do a runner etc.

DSLC

meditraitor:
I came across an article about the idea of 'Social Entrepreneurship' in one of the Sunday papers a while back - although I didn't have time to read it. It seems like a good initiative. There would be a rather pungent irony in receiving monetary sponsorship for a project that aimed to facilitate economic activity without money, but thanks for bringing it to my attention. It might be naive of me to think the SEI would be enamored by this sort of idea, but I'll keep them in mind.

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

lending might have problems, how do you force people to return stuff, what happens if they damage it, what happens if someone hurts/kills them self with borrowed stuff, do you leave a deposit, could the lender do a runner etc.

I know this doesn't answer your question (..or at least not entirely), but the example of libraries seems relevant. I don't know the exact punitive measures libraries resort to to deter people from keeping items, but I suspect that only a small fraction of books are not returned. A lot of them demand information that could be used to 'track people down' - such as physical address - but what they actually do in the case of non-returns I'm not sure. What these libraries at least have is information which enables to do something. What a project like this could perhaps do is give people the option to provide information such as address etc.. Then lenders could decide whether or not they are willing to take the risk of lending an item to someone who hasn't verified their address.
In relation to damage/breakage, a lender could ask a third party to verify that an item is in proper working order just before handing the item over - with the borrower present - and if necessary they could make a record of the borrower's acknowledgment that the item is working.
An ebay-like reputation system might deter people from doing runners I guess.
Obviously these issues would need to be discussed more thoroughly.

P.S. Sorry about the delay in responding. My access to the Internet is limited at the moment, and will be for the next 9-10 days.

DSLC

Hi, I've switched the site to a different address => http://ie.uk.to/ . It's tentatively open.

I've scrapped, or at least postponed, the facility to offer services, so the project is limited to just the sharing / lending of items at the moment.

I've tried to take on board some of Capt'n Midnight's thoughts. People can specify the amount of the monetary deposit they want before lending an item, although the default is 0 euro - but they are expected to return this if / when an item is returned in proper condition. They can also specify whether or not they want potential borrowers to provide a proof of address before lending them an item - although expecting someone to bring along a document with proof of address every time they go to borrow an item from a different person might prove a little impractical ( there's little harm in having it as an option though, I think).

People can also specify exactly what they want done in case of item damage or breakage, although - again - I'm not sure how practical, or useful, a feature this will prove to be in reality.

Suggestions for improvement are welcome.

FillSpectre

While I think this is a good idea make sure you cover yourself. If somebody injures themself using a borrowed item there can be trouble. In a business health and safety requires you to demonstrate any equipment that has a potential danger.

Somebody loses an eye due to borrowing a faulty piece of equipment. Both the agent and the owner may be legally responsible. The agent is you and most importatnly if you did nothing to insure safety you would be seen as irresponsible.

DSLC

I guess it might be regarded as somewhat unbecoming to try and resuscitate people's interest in this project after this length of time, but I thought I'd risk the embarassment nonetheless - in case anyone's interested.

At the moment, it seems to be one of the most unused sites on the internet , which I think is a pity of course [ :sigh: ]. For those who are interested, I've made a few changes to the site.

Suggestions for improvement, and polite criticisms, are welcome. If you think it's a good idea, feel free to let other people know about it.

FillSpectre: Thanks for the suggestion / warning. I'm looking into it.

Address: http://ie.uk.to/