If the Government was to change today

thejuggler

and one assumes that the most likely alternative to the current scenario is a FG, Labour and Independents "rainbow government" would there be any difference? Would problems like the health service be overcome or would everything continue much the same?

I feel there wouldn't be any great difference. It would be an interesting experiement if the Greens and Labour held the balance of power for a while just to see what they would do.

samb

I agree that there would not be any huge change in approach with a FG/Labour coalition. Still, at present, I am willing to give them a go. I think they will not be driven by an ideology like the present PD led governement;) .
FF/PD's seem so arogant and smug, claiming the credit for the celtic tiger. What I'd be afraid of is that FG/L will get in and then by no fault of thier's the economy will collapse via inevitable construction decline, and we will be stuck with FF for ages again. Don't know if they would sort out health service any better, but if Liz Mcmannus got it, I think she would have a good a chance as any.
Not sure about Enda Kenny as top-dog however, I'm sure he would annoy everybody with his manner in no time. I much prefer Richard Bruton or maybe that enright woman (sorry can't spell it), first female could grab a few votes also.

ISAW

samb wrote:

I agree that there would not be any huge change in approach with a FG/Labour coalition. Still, at present, I am willing to give them a go. I think they will not be driven by an ideology like the present PD led governement;)

What ideology would that be?

FF/PD's seem so arogant and smug, claiming the credit for the celtic tiger.

Massive economic growth began around 1992. This was in no small part due to swinging cuts by Mc Sharry in 1987! No government likes to applaud cuts so you dont hear mucgh from FF about that. FG asnd Lab in particular want to spend more and FF no dowbt will do so with an election in the offing. I really cant see how FG Lab would be any better.

So FF laid the basis for the Celtic Tiger. They were in government for almost all of the time of the Tiger. I know that social partners and FDI have to do with it but it really is stretching it to say that FG LAb and the Workers party contributed more to the Tiger than FF did. Probably the greatest contribution by FG was agreeing to the cuts and look what they did to Alan Dukes for that?

What I'd be afraid of is that FG/L will get in and then by no fault of thier's the economy will collapse via inevitable construction decline, and we will be stuck with FF for ages again. Don't know if they would sort out health service any better, but if Liz Mcmannus got it, I think she would have a good a chance as any.

The problem isnt who is minister. It is systemic! The whole system needs overhall. They have done continual changes and injected 12,000,000,000 EXTRA Euro into the system and still I dont see a huge increase in health workers! there are plenty of admin people and health economists! And Now the minister says she doesnt want to litigate a pharma company over the hepatitis because it will expose the system to costs. But in the US where the case is to be taken they take such cases on "no foal no fee" basis i.e. NO RISK. So advisors in the system are telling Harney there is a risk of taking a case without any risk!!!

Not sure about Enda Kenny as top-dog however, I'm sure he would annoy everybody with his manner in no time. I much prefer Richard Bruton or maybe that enright woman (sorry can't spell it), first female could grab a few votes also.

I really dont care about personality if someone can do the job. Probably Berties worst trait is his dabating skills and mass public addressess. In one to ones or small groups however he is outstanding.

stepbar

Well in fact was it not for the Tallaght strategy u mite have had no celtic tiger so FF taking the credit for the celtic tiger is b***x

mike65

Back on topic a change of government to a FG/Lab led coalition would change only in the tinkering around the edges of the agreed centre-right free market low direct tax/high indirect tax ecomonic ideology.

The is nothing to suggest any particular dept would be better run as Minister don't run deptartments, the senior civil service does that. The best that a politician can do to try to set the mood music and take whatever pludits might be going.

Mike.

murphaph

My biggest beef with FF is so-called social partnership. Now, basically this is a mechanism to protect the standard of living of public servants at the expense of the wealth creators (PAYE, Corporations, Self Employed etc.). It would actually be worse with Labour in government. To Labour, CIE etc. are jobs providers, not service providers. I'm afraid I have to stick with FF, much as it pains me. I genuinely believe the cost overruns we saw with motorways in particular are over. The NRA took a while to learn but seem to have cracked it now. I'd hope the same will apply to the RPA. The health service needs a complete overhaul-more likely under FF/PD than a Labour involved government I reckon.

stepbar

FF - the Ryanair of politics....

Cork

stepbar wrote:

Well in fact was it not for the Tallaght strategy u mite have had no celtic tiger so FF taking the credit for the celtic tiger is b***x

I agree. Alan Dukes did this coutry proud. FG let Alan Dukes down. FG did not delay to shaft him.

Enda Kenny for all his years is the Dail is not exactly known for his list of achievements.

Irish people don't want high taxes - I cannot see FG or Labour implementing major changes.

Determined2005

I predict they would be more liberal by far on asylum. FG's policy is to let asylum-seekers work. Doing so would only encourage more to come though. I would expect a blind eye to be turned to the problem and a drop in deportations, to please in particular Labour members (though not their voters who are among the most anti-immigration judging by polls).

I would expect such a govt to be more West-British too. FG aren't interested in a UI or Northern Nationalists. They see them as foreigners as demonstrated by Banotti's disgraceful tirade about Mary McAleese being "an outsider from Belfast" in the 97 Presidential Election. Certainly the public's declared distrust of the Rainbow on NI according to all polls on the issue is well placed when you consider how the previous Rainbow badly mishandled the peace process with the PIRA ceasefire collapsing due to no talks and Bruton's slavish support for no talks before decommissioning for so long.

The stability of such a govt is also highly questionable considering the collapse of previous FG-Lab coalitions. Also, it is possible many of the Independents will again be former FF members who will refuse to prop them up.

murphaph

I don't think NI comes into people's heads when they vote. It's just 'there', but not of primary concern to the vast majority. I'd actually agree that McAleese is an outsider from Belfast however.

Determined2005

murphaph wrote:

I don't think NI comes into people's heads when they vote. It's just 'there', but not of primary concern to the vast majority. I'd actually agree that McAleese is an outsider from Belfast however.

As in a foreigner? No she is not.

blackbuster

if the government was to change today i'd be shocked. I'm voting green party in the next election.

murphaph

Determined2005 wrote:

As in a foreigner? No she is not.

She is a foreigner IMO. She's an irish citizen like my mate from the Lebanon who's got an irish passport but she's from Northern Ireland, ie, the United Kingdom and has grown up in a different country and indeed a ery different culture. I think that one should have to be born in the 26 counties of the Republic of Ireland to stand for president. She in particualar is far too biased on the whole NI problem IMO. Anyway, this is OT.

samb

murphaph wrote:

She is a foreigner IMO. She's an irish citizen like my mate from the Lebanon who's got an irish passport but she's from Northern Ireland, ie, the United Kingdom and has grown up in a different country and indeed a ery different culture. I think that one should have to be born in the 26 counties of the Republic of Ireland to stand for president. She in particualar is far too biased on the whole NI problem IMO. Anyway, this is OT.

I disagree about the 'where your born, definition of nationality' but agree that she is biased on the NI issue.
Protestants irrational hatred of catholics is similar to the hatred of jews in nazi germany. But same goes for Catholics irrational hatred of Protestants, why would she highlight the irrational hatred she knows less about.

As a catholic, she should have a better understanding of the irrational hatred of protestants by catholics. I suspect she hasn't noticed this hypocricy because she is guilty herself.

murphaph

samb wrote:

I disagree about the 'where your born, definition of nationality'....

I don't think I said that, just that you should be born here to be president, just like the US.

samb wrote:

...but agree that she is biased on the NI issue.
Protestants irrational hatred of catholics is similar to the hatred of jews in nazi germany. But same goes for Catholics irrational hatred of Protestants, why would she highlight the irrational hatred she knows less about.

As a catholic, she should have a better understanding of the irrational hatred of protestants by catholics. I suspect she hasn't noticed this hypocricy because she is guilty herself.

Indeed. At the end of the day she's Mary Lenehan from the Ardoyne and she'll always have her NI baggage which is too tainted and biased to be objective. I'm also generally sick of our politicians including McAleese spending so much of their time on NI when they should be worrying about things in the part of the island which pays their wages.

monument

murphaph wrote:

indeed a ery different culture.

Could you explain what this State’s one and only culture is which McAleese’s apparently massively different culture doesn’t share many traits with?

murphaph

monument wrote:

Could you explain what this State’s one and only culture is which McAleese’s apparently massively different culture doesn’t share many traits with?

30 years of violence has created a very divided society. People from the north are as culturally similar to us as people from Scotland or Wales. Playing Gaelic games doesn't mean we're culturally identical.




Yeah, of course there isn't one culture but IMO, a muslim of middle eastern extraction who was born here and has lived here will have a better understanding of our culture and ways than someone born and bred on the Ardoyne Road. So I'd prefer that muslim irish person than a person born and raised in the UK, whether they hold an irish passport or not.

monument

So, is there any possibility that this apparent massive difference between McAleese’s culture and that of the general population of the State could be present with other sub-cultures of this State?

For example, could two or more similar or even more so divided cultures be living in say Dublin?

thejuggler

thejuggler wrote:

It would be an interesting experiement if the Greens and Labour held the balance of power for a while just to see what they would do.

Why Labour?

I mean, they've been in power for more years in the past 30 than FG, and holding the balance of power a good few times. I remember what they did, and I will not vote for them.

Greens would be interesting alright though.

The_Minister

blackbuster wrote:

if the government was to change today i'd be shocked. I'm voting green party in the next election.

All that does is give SF more voting time. The Greens are unrealistic and have no comprehension as to the limits of renewable energy.

murphaph

Firespinner wrote:

All that does is give SF more voting time. The Greens are unrealistic and have no comprehension as to the limits of renewable energy.

Whereas the other parties have no comprehension as to the limits of fossil fuels! The Greens would be great to have in government but I'd like them in government with FF, not Labour. I was watching a programme about wave generators today. Portugal (yes, one of the poorest places in the EU) are investing in wave generators built in the UK. The UK doesn't even have any! They clamed it was crazy as the waves off the north coast of Scotland are TWICE as powerful as those off Portugal, so I assume our own west coast would be similarly well endowed with big waves. The guy being interviewed (yes he was an engineer for the manufacturers) claimed that 20% of current UK needs could be met quite easily with wave power alone. Even if he's doubling the figure, 10% of UK demand could well be 50% or more of our demand given we have a much smaller population, hardly any electrifed railways and zilch heavy (energy demanding) industries like steel and car production. Couple that to wind energy and more tapping of hydro and we could be self sufficient, buying energy in when we have no wind and waves and exporting it during the days and particularly nights when we have an excess.