Higher levels of consciousness

space_monkey

A couple of years ago something strange happened to me.

Through a bizarre combination of martial arts, yoga & mind numbing factory work I got a higher level of consciousness. I was just walking down the street and thinking when it happened to me.

The pupils of my eyes became huge and I got a rush of euphoria. I was very happy for the day.

Next day I could hear voices in my head. The voices started off friendly but got nasty later on. I got the impression that I had a radio receiver in my head.

I was taken to a mental hospital and put on pills.

I still miss the higher consciousness. I now regard it as what the buddhists call being enlightened. I was experiencing pure bliss.

Higher consciousness works like a virtual machine. When you go asleep the higher consciousness is the first to be lost and then when you wake up it's the last to be gained.

MrJoeSoap

Fair play to you, but this has what to do with Atheism/Agnosticism ???

space_monkey

Well I was an atheist when it happened to me (I'm now a buddhist).

All those religous leaders like Jesus, Buddha & Mohammed had higher consciousness.

Dades

space_monkey wrote:

Well I was an atheist when it happened to me (I'm now a buddhist).

You were probably a motorist when it happened to you, why didn't you post it in the Motoring forum?

Sorry, but I'm dubious as the sincerity of that Readers' Digest version of your life.
It's just too... flippant.

robindch

> I still miss the higher consciousness. I now regard it as what the
> buddhists call being enlightened. I was experiencing pure bliss.

You may be interested in a public lecture in the big room downstairs in the Davenport Hotel on April 5th at 8.30pm, given by Professor Ian Robertson of the School of Psychology, Trinity College Dublin. The blurb for the talk is as follows:

Human Beings' awareness of themselves across the four dimensions of space and time is unique in the known universe. Self-awareness, like consciousness, depends on the complex interplay of a number of different areas of the brain. A window into the nature of these processes is opened following certain types of damage to particular areas of the brain: I will describe some of these disorders of self-awareness, ranging from Capgras Syndrome (believing that people close to you have been replaced by identical looking strangers) to Cotard's Syndrome (believing you are dead). I will also show you examples of how some aspects of self-awareness, such as recognising error, can be studied using modern brain imaging methods and will briefly show how easily the self can be deceived into believing events have happened that have not, and how hypnotic phenomena can alter brain mechanisms relevant to awareness.

Note the bit in bold.

Asiaprod

space_monkey wrote:

The pupils of my eyes became huge

Hum, .......you saw that you had big pupils!!!

Playboy

I dont' mean to be disrespectful of your experience but the euphoria and bliss you described are a common trait of schizophrenia. The voices that followed afterwards are also a common trait of that condition. Many people who have the condition talk also of how they miss the experience of euphoria when they were in the altered state of mind. How you interpret the experience is entirely up to you but it would be a good idea to listen to your doctors as the unpleasant side of the condition is as much a part of it as the euphoria.

space_monkey

I just thought that anything to do with consciousness was appropriate for this forum because Richard Dawkins devotes a chapter in The Selfish Gene to the brain and consciousness. Maybe the Spirituality or Philosophy forums might have been more appropriate.

I'm sorry if I rubbed some of ye up the wrong way with some of my comments.

I am taking antipsychotic medication and haven't heard voices in years.

Zombrex

One mans schizophrenia is another mans higher level of consciousness

TBH I'm not even sure what "higher level of conscousness" actually that means. It is a very new age wishy washy idea, like the myth that we only use 10% of our brain (which is nonsense).

"Higher" in what way? Higher as in the difference between a human brain and a dog brain? Higher in the sense that you could do maths quicker, could remember more, could visualise complex problems with ease, could learn at a faster rate that the average human brain? Or did you just feel happier?

Zillah

1 - You're lying, you couldn't possibly know your pupils got large.
2 - If you're not lying then its probably schizophrenia.
3 - You're also probably a shill (a bad one at that) highered to promote mister Richard Dawkins' lastest piece of crap book.

You should so tell your boss that you need training in basic lies and manipulation.

samb

I find it amazing how little most people appreciate how subjective human consciousness really is. Anytime you look at anything your eyes are only actually focusing and taking in a small amount of data. Your brain then makes a representation to your mind which is only really an impression of reality. Also what we see as solid or liquid is (as I assume most here know) mainly nothing.
experiences such as feeling there is someone in the room with you, hearing and seeing things that are not there, and strange experiences and feelings when woken or sleep deprived are not anything unusual at all. Anyone who has experimented with mind-altering drugs like LSD will easily appreciate how maliable human experience really is.

Space Monkey, why do you think this state of consciousness was HIGHER? I think this is a slightly egotistical conclusion to come to. I can't see why you would come to the conclusion that what you experineced was anything fundamentally different from what other people experience. Could exaust fumes not be a more likely explanation.

Anyway I welcome the thread, I think it is very relevant to this forum because many 'believers' of many faiths often tend to draw strange conclusions from these types of experiences.

pH

I find it amazing how little most people appreciate how subjective human consciousness really is.

Conciousness is for sure weird, and while it's probably not totally on-topic for A/A something has always intrigued me about evolution and conciousness:

Given that you accept conciousness evolved, is conciousness a binary thing (ie a being is either concious or not)? or are there levels of conciousness?

If it is binary (which it *feels* like to me) and I accept that humans are concious and that apes are not (which again may be controversial based on a definition of conciousness) then a concious being was born (a fluke mutation) to unconcious parents in one huge leap.

If on the other had it is not binary, then conciousness is a gradual process, you can get 'more' concious. If you accept this, then you must accept (new age spiritual nonsense aside) that our conciousness is a point on a sliding scale and that there are (probably unimaginable) higher states of conciousness than ours.

I suppose that what I am saying is neither feels right, yet unless I'm missing something one of them is - any thoughts (Mod - feel free to can this if you feel it's way of topic for this board)

samb

pH wrote:

Conciousness is for sure weird, and while it's probably not totally on-topic for A/A something has always intrigued me about evolution and conciousness:

Given that you accept conciousness evolved, is conciousness a binary thing (ie a being is either concious or not)? or are there levels of conciousness?

If it is binary (which it *feels* like to me) and I accept that humans are concious and that apes are not (which again may be controversial based on a definition of conciousness) then a concious being was born (a fluke mutation) to unconcious parents in one huge leap.

If on the other had it is not binary, then conciousness is a gradual process, you can get 'more' concious. If you accept this, then you must accept (new age spiritual nonsense aside) that our conciousness is a point on a sliding scale and that there are (probably unimaginable) higher states of conciousness than ours.

I suppose that what I am saying is neither feels right, yet unless I'm missing something one of them is - any thoughts (Mod - feel free to can this if you feel it's way of topic for this board)

I don't think it is binary. I certainly think that animals espeically other apes have a degree of conciousness. I suppose therefore, that you are right, and that higher states of conciousness occur. But by who?Aliens? One could argue that taking drugs like E or Cocaine make one have a higher state of conciousness for a time, based on increased alertness. Our own individual conciouisness also fluctuates on a daily baises depending on our alertness.

Another reason to suggest that it is certainly not binary is the fact that we grow from a embryo. The question arises 'when do we become concoious?' we don't just become concious one moment when we are 5 months old? I have a daughter and I can see her becoming more and more concious. She is now 16 months old, but I am not sure that she is more concious than all animals.

Perhaps the original poster was living is life in a lower level of conciousness (maybe from pot) and then experienced a level of conciousness like most us. I just think it is arogant of him to think that this experience was higher than anything everyone else experiences.
I think it is more complicated than simply higher and lower levels of awarness (conciousness), I think mental illnesses attest to this fact. such as Autism where a person may have a fuller experience of the physical reality we live in (absorb detailed data about what they see) but cannot understand and empathise we other people. It is not higher or lower, just different.

*I'm no expert on this topic, so take everything I say with a pinch of salt.

Son Goku

I think most studies suggest that our consciousness is layered or discrete.

For illustrative purposes lets say the levels are:

1. Not Conscious.
2. Dream thought.
3. Just awake/about to fall asleep.
4. Basic Emotion.
5. Higher Emotion.
6. Abstract Reasoning.
7. Higher Abstract Reasoning.

As you get more tired or hungry you basically drop to a lower level.
(This is why you often make non-sequiturs when you're nearly asleep)

The effect of most drugs neither raises or lowers this, but rather changes input-output relationships in the brain.

Asiaprod

Son Goku wrote:

I think most studies suggest that our consciousness is layered or discrete.

For illustrative purposes lets say the levels are:

1. Not Conscious.
2. Dream thought.
3. Just awake/about to fall asleep.
4. Basic Emotion.
5. Higher Emotion.
6. Abstract Reasoning.
7. Higher Abstract Reasoning..

Nice answer, I still feel though that there oare other levels that can be reached in different way. Take
1. Chanting
2. Meditation
3. Yoga
4...etc.

These ones are not so easy to define, yet I do believe they can also changes input-output relationships in the brain to open pathways to other layered or discrete consciousnesses.

Zillah

pH wrote:

Conciousness is for sure weird, and while it's probably not totally on-topic for A/A something has always intrigued me about evolution and conciousness:

Given that you accept conciousness evolved, is conciousness a binary thing (ie a being is either concious or not)? or are there levels of conciousness?

If it is binary (which it *feels* like to me) and I accept that humans are concious and that apes are not (which again may be controversial based on a definition of conciousness) then a concious being was born (a fluke mutation) to unconcious parents in one huge leap.

If on the other had it is not binary, then conciousness is a gradual process, you can get 'more' concious. If you accept this, then you must accept (new age spiritual nonsense aside) that our conciousness is a point on a sliding scale and that there are (probably unimaginable) higher states of conciousness than ours.

I suppose that what I am saying is neither feels right, yet unless I'm missing something one of them is - any thoughts (Mod - feel free to can this if you feel it's way of topic for this board)

I believe "self awareness" is the concept you're wrestling with, and its most certainly a sliding scale. An ant is self-aware to a minimal degree. It knows nothing of its existence beyond chemical signals and its immediate role in the hive. A pet dog however, is incredibly self-aware. It knows when it is hungry, it gets bored or excited, happy and sad, and knows its place in the social family construct. Then there is humans, who know about our role at home, and society, and many of whom understand their place in the world, and the universe we know. There is little doubt that aliens, or more evolved humans, could have a level of conciousness beyond that that encompases sciences and natures beyond our current comprehension.

So some guy getting high on fumes isn't exactly, "higher conciousness"...

jtsuited

I think this is a highly relevant topic to this forum even if the original post does seem a bit odd.
I have been an atheist most of my life but understand that a higher plane of conciosness and experience can be achieved in life.
I myself find it in music. It's what i do for a living so am lucky in that regard.

Concepts such as self-awareness and self-conciousness have been hijacked by religions and called 'spirituality' or whatever.
The reality is that these issues are really heavy but have to be faced by everyone. And that's where religion gets used as a crutch as people as most people can't handle such big questions.

Siddharta Guatama, Muhammed etc. were men who spent much time alone contemplating huge issues about the complexities of the human condition, and these type of 'spiritual' revelations seem to be an intense altered state of conciousness, and could nowadays be (somewhat) explained using science.

On a personal note, i find discussions like these give you a wonderful sense of fulfillment as the mind is focused on abstract concepts and seems to reward us with nice profound feelings.
Maybe the more we push our brain with these reasoning process the more we feel we exist and the enjoyment of such intellectual endeavours would explain the prominence of religions throughout history.

So i think what i'm trying to say is that these psychogical phenomena explain why religions are so widespread and have such strength as they take these deep existential issues and hijack them to legitimate and promote their own dogmatic ideologies.

I think the OP has accidentally started a very interesting thread about what atheists make of the human being and of human conciousness.

Ok thinking about that original post, it really does sound like a schizophrenic episode.

Zillah

Good points jtsuited, although I still believe that 99% of the reason for religion's success is the role of social glue.