Movie screenplay writers -- how do they get started in the business?

Dave!

Hey folks,

just wondering if anyone can tell me how the majority of screenplay writers generally get started in the business.

Would they mostly have studied film in university, and learned from that? Or English? Or would they usually not have any 'qualifications' as such, but just an idea, which they write in their spare time?

Of course there'll be lots of different ways to do it, but I'm just wondering what's the most common way.

Probably a silly question...

monkeyfudge

Well I got a few contacts through a lecturer back when I was in college.

I got paid for doing a couple of treatments that way... nothing ever got made though.

One of the other guys on the course with me got one of his things made and that project turned out to be The Big Bow Wow... and the rest is history.

Earthhorse

Not a silly question but one which I don't anyone will be able to provide a real answer to. I doubt any major research has been conducted on screenwriters' backgrounds.

So I don't think there is a "most common way".

You could always ask John August over on imdb.com. He might know.

http://www.imdb.com/Indie/Ask/archive.html

ObeyGiant

1. Think of your favourite screenwriter
2. Check their wikipedia page
3. ...
4. Profit!

BrenC

I guess they just send anything they've written into a studio, I do know the lowest a script will go for in Hollywood is 100 grand!

oh and hey Dave

Dave!

Can anyone else give some more info on this?

I would imagine thousands of scripts are given into studios, so I would think you'd have limited success that way. I presume developing contacts in the movie industry would be the best way to go about it.

Pigman II

I think they trick is to just come up with something high-concept that hasn't been done before. After that it doesn't really matter what you write (or if you're even literate).

mike65

I guess you need to think laterally, ie don't try for movies as your first port of call. Every year RTE Radio runs competitions for fiction writers enter that, submit an outline to an independant TV production house.

http://www.script.ie/
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/fiction15/
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/francismacmanus/
http://www.fishpublishing.com/alumni.php

By entering these events you learn writing discipline, learn what works and what does'nt plus you make contacts in the media pond which is very small so everyone knows everyone esle which might suddenly get you a chance to pitch an idea to say John Borrman or Neil Jordan (he don't write everything himself) or you could get a 15 min short made which is included in a showreel
by its producers at some festival and then you get a call...or maybe not but thats the nature of the business and why there are proberly thouands of screenplays and novels tucked away across the country!

Mike.

projectmayhem

mike65 wrote:

I guess you need to think laterally, ie don't try for movies as your first port of call. Every year RTE Radio runs competitions for fiction writers enter that, submit an outline to an independant TV production house.

http://www.script.ie/
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/fiction15/
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/francismacmanus/
http://www.fishpublishing.com/alumni.php

By entering these events you learn writing discipline, learn what works and what does'nt plus you make contacts in the media pond which is very small so everyone knows everyone esle which might suddenly get you a chance to pitch an idea to say John Borrman or Neil Jordan (he don't write everything himself) or you could get a 15 min short made which is included in a showreel
by its producers at some festival and then you get a call...or maybe not but thats the nature of the business and why there are proberly thouands of screenplays and novels tucked away across the country!

Mike.

good advice.

best step into the door? get a credit somewhere. anywhere... even a 15min short you wrote for radio, tv or youtube... if it's been seen/heard by humanoids somewhere, it puts you above guys randomly sending in scripts, no matter of quality.

the wachowski brothers managed to sell a mediocre script to joel silver by pure chance once. it was called "assassins". few years later they're working on the matrix, because that mediocre script gave them a credit and got their foot in the door...

Pigman II

projectmayhem wrote:

the wachowski brothers managed to sell a mediocre script to joel silver by pure chance once. it was called "assassins". few years later they're working on the matrix, because that mediocre script gave them a credit and got their foot in the door...

Yeah but didn't that get made into a hollywood movie with SlyStallone and Banderas? Might have been a turd but it was hardly RTE radio or youtube.

projectmayhem

Pigman II wrote:

Yeah but didn't that get made into a hollywood movie with SlyStallone and Banderas? Might have been a turd but it was hardly RTE radio or youtube. Or is that what you consider starting off small?

yeah but my point was it was a stinker, but their foot was in the door. all you need is 1 credit to get the ball rolling

Earthhorse

DaveMcG wrote:

Can anyone else give some more info on this?

I would imagine thousands of scripts are given into studios, so I would think you'd have limited success that way. I presume developing contacts in the movie industry would be the best way to go about it.

Yes, developing contacts is important. Depending on how "big" you want to make it you will more than likely need an agent at some stage too. Meaning, I don't think you'd need an agent to start fishing your scripts in these shores but if you're planning on going stateside you probably will.

Diogenes

Okay lets clarify, do you want to be a movie script writer or a film script writer? By movie I mean hollywood blocbuster type. By film I mean British and Irish films and tv.

If you want to be a hollywood script writer, move to LA. This book is by William Goldman. It's twenty five years old but still relevant. Goldman wrote all the presidents men, marathon man, butch cassidy and the sundance kid. He's got alot of tips for aspiring writers, the main one is, live in LA.

Secondly. Studios don't read scripts that are sent without invite. Thats to save themselves from getting sued. Suppose you've written a script about a robot dog who plays basketball. They read it, but already have a film about a robot cat who plays baseball in production. Once it's released you go and see it, and think they've ripped off some bits of your script. You sue.

Agents send studios scripts. Thats the way it works. You'll need to get yourself an agent. Send scripts to agents. Keep in mind all those waiters in hollywood aren't just wannabe actors there are loads of wannabe script writers too.

But it's important to be in hollywood for a variety of reasons. Most of which spelt out in that book.

As to working from here. Thats fine too. There are some MA's and BA's in scriptwriting. One thing you should consider is perhaps trying to write for Fairly Shítty. Yeah yeah, but Paul Abbott from Shameless and Russell T Davis of Doctor Who both started on Corrie.

One thing to consider is there are several writing grants and awards
http://www.script.ie/
Is a good place to start.

Lurk

I know nothing about this subject except for two things that I read a little while back (could be wrong, could be right, I dunno):

There's a knack to writing screenplays and agents/producers get irritated if the rules aren't followed, which is where screenwriting courses/books come in

However, a script for what turned out to be blockbuster was passed up by loads of agents and producers a few years ago (will try to remember what it was) and as a result, studios don't tend to bin material that they receive as quickly as they used to. Which suggests that if you have an okay idea and it's written out well enough, the chances are good that at least some of it will be read by a minion at a studio.

Actually, I think it was Sideways that i'm trying to think of.

Diogenes

Lurk wrote:

I know nothing about this subject except for two things that I read a little while back (could be wrong, could be right, I dunno):

There's a knack to writing screenplays and agents/producers get irritated if the rules aren't followed, which is where screenwriting courses/books come in

However, a script for what turned out to be blockbuster was passed up by loads of agents and producers a few years ago (will try to remember what it was) and as a result, studios don't tend to bin material that they receive as quickly as they used to. Which suggests that if you have an okay idea and it's written out well enough, the chances are good that at least some of it will be read by a minion at a studio.

Actually, I think it was Sideways that i'm trying to think of.

Theres not a knack, theres a format. Page layout, etc. Producers don't like to see too much detail re physical description of characters, specific camerawork etc, thats called directing from the page. You leave that to the director.

mike65

A movie script should never exceed more than 1 page per minute of screen time if it does you're being too descriptive.

Mike.

Diogenes

mike65 wrote:

A movie script should never exceed more than 1 page per minute of screen time if it does you're being too descriptive.

Mike.

Thats kinda true. A page is usually considered to be a minute of screen time, as a rule of thumb. If you are trying to describe a franatic action sequence it will probably work out longer.

Dial takes up the bulk of a page, because of the spacing. A script is formated so that a page of dialogue works out as a minute of screen time.

Dave!

Interesting you should mention about "directing from the page", because I'm writing a short script to get me used to the format (it's called "Format Test" ), and I've noticed that I have unusually large amounts of descriptive text in it. I just left it in for the time being, but I did think it was too much.

Question: would more specific details not be better? I mean, if you're going to leave out what you as the writer deem to be important details about the scene, then why leave in something like what the protagonist looks like? Or what type of car they're driving? Or whether it's day or night?
I mean if I think a particular scene would be particularly good, then I'd want to convey that image to the person who's reading it; if I just have a vague description then the script might lose alot of its originality or a scene might lose some intensity. Surely you'd want it to stand out, would you not?

But then I suppose the producer is more interested in the idea of the story rather than the specific details... would that be correct?

BTW, anyone know a decent free program that has the script format pre-set, so I don't need to keep messing with Word? For the Mac, by the way! I've seen mention of I think Final Draft, but it's not by any means free, so that's out. Thanks

Diogenes

DaveMcG wrote:

I

Question: would more specific details not be better? I mean, if you're going to leave out what you as the writer deem to be important details about the scene, then why leave in something like what the protagonist looks like? Or what type of car they're driving? Or whether it's day or night?

Well for starts you must include whether it's day or night. Or whether you're inside or outside.

You open each seen with a sentence.

SC. INT. MILLENIUM FALCON HANGER. DAY.

or

SC EXT. THE EWOK VILLAGE. NIGHT.

That clearly establishs where you are and what time of day it is. If Its the first time at this location feel free to give some description;

"The ewok village is a hive of active high above the forest floor. A massive structure of tree houses and interconnecting walkways."

As for a character description. You should give some details. The William Goldman book gives alot of time to discussing how much or how little description you give. If you have a copy of the Da Vinci code book read the description of the Tom Hanks character. That is literally how not to write a part's description. I'm talking about the book remember. Literally the way he describes him as Harrison Ford.

See if you go into too much detail you narrow down the potential casting opportunities. If you describe a character as;

"A Wizen aged black farm hand, his wiry fram, conceals a face etched with experience, and sad eyes that have seen too much pain, yet he holds himself with a quiet dignity"

You may as well be saying;

"This dude should be played by Morgan Freedman".

As to the car. Well it depends does the car really suit this character? Is it integeral to the plot? If you want the guy to be slick just write classic sports car. Or Busted jalopy. Dont get bogged down on details.

I mean if I think a particular scene would be particularly good, then I'd want to convey that image to the person who's reading it; if I just have a vague description then the script might lose alot of its originality or a scene might lose some intensity. Surely you'd want it to stand out, would you not?

But then I suppose the producer is more interested in the idea of the story rather than the specific details... would that be correct?

Well no, but a couple of things. One a small army of exceptional creative people are, once this thing is going to be greenlighted (fingers crossed) leap onto this. Art directors, cinematographers, makeup and of course the director. All of them are going to have a vision of this film, and if you've gone and give too much information you're doing their job for them.

An example never describe a camera move in the script. If you want the camera to move to reveal something dramatic (ie the serial killer in the corner of the room our hero has just locked himself into) Never say the "camera pans", or the "camera zooms", just say the "camera moves", leave the asthetics of how exactly the camera moves to the bloke with twenty years experience of this. One its going to piss him off when he reads the script, and two, he may have a much better idea than you, but now he has to fight to get his move.

Ditto over complex description of locations. Or set pieces if you write too elaborately some producer will think, **** it we've got "five million and this is a ten million film" and pass, instead of thinking "**** it we can do this on five" they won't do it if you've painstakingly detailed a set pieces out of his budget.

And finally you're making work for yourself. They'll want changes. You'll just have to untangle yourself.

BTW, anyone know a decent free program that has the script format pre-set, so I don't need to keep messing with Word? For the Mac, by the way! I've seen mention of I think Final Draft, but it's not by any means free, so that's out. Thanks

There are free script templates for MS word on the web.

BTW the IFI has copies of scripts in its bookstore. I'd recommend you pick up a few. I recommend, Withnail & I regularly regarded as an excellent example of a well written script.

Earthhorse

Diogenes wrote:

SC. INT. MILLENIUM FALCON HANGER. DAY.

What's the SC. stand for? Scene? Never seen that before.

Diogenes

Earthhorse wrote:

What's the SC. stand for? Scene? Never seen that before.

Yup, and its sometimes used.

elshambo

Read a book would be as good a place to start as any, although I have read 2 and they totally contradict each other on a lot of issues. Syd Field is supposed to be the boss and his book "Screenplay" is a good read. Not sure the begineers course's are supposed to be up to much anyway so why not just spend the E10 and see.
Then if you felt u needed it, at least you would have an idea of what to look for in a course. Beware of the Irish media types, closed shop and they like it like that.(Thats not a sob story btw, just an observation).

Q. What do you want to do? Film? TV? Tea Boy?

Diogenes

elshambo wrote:

Q. What do you want to do? Film? TV? Tea Boy?

To whom are the questions directed at?