2 1/2 hands.

AmarilloFats

Folded to me(250) on button w/ As3s I make it $7 both blinds call.
Flop comes AAQ 2 tone. Checked to me. Now I usually check here, but I bet this time. I bet $15. SB(300) makes it $45. My notes say he is good LAG. How to proceed??I really think I should check here even with the draws.

Just Sat down with $200. Villain is bad and has about $140..
4 Limpers I make it $12 w/JJ from SB. 3 callers.
Flop comes Td 8d 4c. I bet $25.
only Villain calls, turn is 5h POt is ~$90.. How to proceed!!!!!!?

nikorami

LAG(enlighten please)? What Draws? Did you call the 45?

Ayways...I would have checked the flop instead of bet....kicker is still week even with the Q, so no need to bet. You have not gotten any info except 2 callers for the $7. I would say that A10, AJ, AQ, AK an QQ would have reraised preflop. So with 2 cards to come you need a little help if he has the other A. And thats for the Split.

My gut is that he sis not put you on an A and rather a low pair, he prob has the Q. By checking you see what he does. My guess he puts in the $15 bet. Now you get the same result you desired as by opening for $15. See the turn...if it helps your kicker then i think u at least split. Or alternatively you can check raise to $45 and if he comes over the top(depending on stack sizes) then you can lay down.

ALL IMHO

fuzzbox

Fold hand 1.... checking flop is fine.

Hand 2 - after 4 limpers, the pot is 11. You make it 12 to play with a hand that plays BAD OOP Vs a big field. Make it 20, or just limp along.

As played - what sort of bad ? Calling with a flush draw bad? I think you have to push, and expect to lose, but the presence of the flush draw makes you want to push.

fuzzbox

nikorami wrote:

LAG(enlighten please)? What Draws? Did you call the 45?

Ayways...I would have checked the flop instead of bet....kicker is still week even with the Q, so no need to bet. You have not gotten any info except 2 callers for the $7. I would say that A10, AJ, AQ, AK an QQ would have reraised preflop. So with 2 cards to come you need a little help if he has the other A. And thats for the Split.

My gut is that he sis not put you on an A and rather a low pair, he prob has the Q. By checking you see what he does. My guess he puts in the $15 bet. Now you get the same result you desired as by opening for $15. See the turn...if it helps your kicker then i think u at least split. Or alternatively you can check raise to $45 and if he comes over the top(depending on stack sizes) then you can lay down.

ALL IMHO

Sorry buddy - but I dont understand anything you say here. Would you make it clearer?

nikorami

I was trying to say that on the first hand I would check the flop and check raise rather than bet and be raised, then fold or call to the raise.

What do you think? It seems to me that the guy has a Q not an A w/ big kicker or QQ.

Thanks for your input!

fuzzbox

You cant check/raise, because you are the button. I also HATE check/raising with A3 on an AAQ board in any case (if you were in early position for example).

Why do you think the guy has a Q ?

nikorami

I fn misread the op. Sorry. He bet on the $15 on the button and was check raised. Anyways, why is the call bad? He was the original raiser...I still don't think he called the preflop raise with A and big kicker or QQ. I guess I figure he has roughly the same hand. Yes/No???

Thanks

fuzzbox

The call is bad because you are probably beat. Just lay it down.
You dont have roughly the same hand, yours is much worse than his is likely to be.
Just because you are the preflop raiser, doesnt give you the right to the pot.

Why on earth do you think he didnt call the preflop raise with Ax (with X being bigger than 3), or QQ?

AmarilloFats

fuzzbox wrote:

Fold hand 1.... checking flop is fine.

Hand 2 - after 4 limpers, the pot is 11. You make it 12 to play with a hand that plays BAD OOP Vs a big field. Make it 20, or just limp along.

As played - what sort of bad ? Calling with a flush draw bad? I think you have to push, and expect to lose, but the presence of the flush draw makes you want to push.

Usually a $12 raise will take it down, My Standard raise being $8.
I mean after limpers(depending) I will make it $12 with T8s the odd time, so just completing w/ JJ I ain't to keen on.

If he has a flush draw he will chk behind if I check.
He will bet small if he makes flush on river. If He has a set 2 pair, he will bet small, if I check. If He has top pair he will check behind if I check.

Norwich Fan Rob

i dont like raising with pre flop with the likes of A3 as u are likely to be dominated if u are called, and unlikely to get much action on an A high flop unless u are beat.

I dont like leading on an AAx board with a weak A for the same reason as above.

AmarilloFats

It's folded to me on the button I have a suited Ace, 2 poor passive players in the blinds, wild horses could not stop me from betting...
And I am not usually dominated when called. I agree I should have checked behind.

Norwich Fan Rob

Ace rag doesnt play well to a raise, blinds are not worth stealing in cash games, and especially not with a hand like A3s where u might win a big pot if u hit a flush vs a str8 or smaller flush.

A3 plays well when limped into a pot, as if u do hit 2p , a big A will pay u off and if u hit a flush u have the nuts often and will often get paid.

It plays bad into a raise and i dont like raising with it, as if the A hits, people assume u have it and fold unless u are beat.

cardshark202

I can't say I like the idea of open limping with A3s on the button. I would raise here about 100% of the time I think. I might limp on the button if there was/were a few limpers before me otherwise I raise. Plus the blinds are worth stealing in a cash game. Why not? Plus you don't have to hit an ace to win the pot. And if you do you will likely have the best hand.

In this situation (Hand 1), with no reads on the villian, I would fold.

fuzzbox

AmarilloFats wrote:

Usually a $12 raise will take it down, My Standard raise being $8.
I mean after limpers(depending) I will make it $12 with T8s the odd time, so just completing w/ JJ I ain't to keen on.

Make it 20 with T8s the odd time too. You want the pot now more than you want to play a flop.

Is this full ring? Or 6-max?
Either way, I am out of position, the pot is nice enough to grab, and I dont mind ending the action right now. In the case where I have JJ, well I also have a fine hand to go along with my bet, but I sure dont want 3 callers ...

Std raise is fine n all, but there are 4 limpers, Std Raise = 8, add 1 BB per limper = another 8 - making 16. Add something for being OOP (2xBB seems good) and make it 20 to go .

AmarilloFats

Fuzz, Gulp, I find your posts most helpful and insightful these days, thanks.
So flop bet, I think I could have bet more..... and What now on the Turn??.....
NF Rob, The blinds are worth $3. And all the advantages of raising often etc.

Hectorjelly

Norwich Fan Rob wrote:

Ace rag doesnt play well to a raise,

It does when you are the one raising, you have position and you are a good player.

Norwich Fan Rob wrote:

blinds are not worth stealing in cash games,

Yes they are, attacking the blinds is really really important for a number of reasons. Its possible to be a winner in games without doing it, but not a big one. We had this discussion a few weeks ago.

Norwich Fan Rob wrote:

and especially not with a hand like A3s where u might win a big pot if u hit a flush vs a str8 or smaller flush.

Its much easier to stack someone in a raised pot than an unraised one, and people tend to still play big aces

Norwich Fan Rob wrote:

It plays bad into a raise and i dont like raising with it, as if the A hits, people assume u have it and fold unless u are beat.

This is correct, but a good player can still make this situation profitable. Since you are in position you can control the size of the pot, (which means usualyy checking behind 1/2 streets), and its hard to get stacked by a better hand.

Hectorjelly

Hand 1 what would you do if you had

a) JQo
b) 67s (for no pair no draw)
c) AQ/AK