Gossip about poker players

Hectorjelly

I was reading through the threads and came across this one; http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054904274

I dont understand why this was locked. Firstly if this wasnt an Irish player I dont think it would be barred; we had plenty of threads on rumours of US plrs going busto and noone mentioned anything then.

Secondly I dont see what the problem is with this type of gossip. If I see a famous player playing then there is nothing wrong with me sharing what I see with others. Similarly they are free to pass that on to other people. Of course there will be mistakes and errors, but its up to the reader to read with the knowledge that this type of info is inherintly unreliable.

Its quite common for players to have a big win and then slowly lose all the money back playing cash games - in this case it seems like it was completely untrue so a simple post outling that would of sufficed.

This isnt that important to me so if the mods/whoever decides these things decide that gossip on irish players is taboo then thats fine.

Daithio

I think it's useless gossip and it's out of order.

ocallagh

Gossip on public forums is never right. It is not fair on anyone, including US players. Gossip about a local cork man on an irish forum will gather more momentum than gossip about an international profesional player... and this is why it has attracted the attention of the mods. IMO, all gossip should be banned. What you have highlighted in this post is quite interesting. Gossip by nature is a grey area... and for that reason I think it will be tough for the mods to decide what is allowed.

Hectorjelly

Daithio wrote:

I think it's useless gossip and it's out of order.

why? If it were true it would be interesting. I have never heard of him and I was interested by it. Some threads bore me but I dont want them locked.

I cant see why its out of order except that its not true. If this is the reason that it was closed then I understand.

mewso

Funny it's the gossip part I would have a problem with. US players are far enough removed that I would be comfortable discussing gossip about them but closer to home it's a bit unfair spreading gossip to players who will play with this player. If it was an admitted truth by the player in question I would have no problem with it. Lets close threads where someone claims an Irish player won x amount too.

Hectorjelly

What is gossip though? If I see a player I recognise do paticularly well/badly should I not post about it? Or is that ok but if I only hear that info from someone else should I not post it. Its not like we are talking about peoples private affairs.

ocallagh

Hectorjelly wrote:

If I see a player I recognise do paticularly well/badly should I not post about it?

that is also gossip.

it does not matter whether it is true or not.. or where the information came from. gossip is the act of spreading news from person to person, especially rumors or private information. As with all chat rooms on the internet, some information is ok... and some is not.

Hectorjelly

ocallagh wrote:

that is also gossip.

it does not matter whether it is true or not.. or where the information came from. gossip is the act of spreading news from person to person, especially rumors or private information. As with all chat rooms on the internet, some information is ok... and some is not.

This isnt private information though, and I dont think that people have a right to privacy when they are playing a game in a public place, be it online or offline.

G-Knome

Good posting HJ, I was also disappointed that the thread was locked as I never got to finish what I had started.

However, here's a copy of the pm I sent to Dev afterwards:

---

I still think this was a valid post. I can't believe my source got it wrong, I'll need to have serious words with him.
Of course I wouldn't have posted the topic about some random forum member but I was talking about someone who is now high profile and in the public eye whether he likes it or not. I being a member of the general populous have every right to talk about him. It's called free speech.
I understood it to be true and of course if this were the case then it brings about many very important topics of discussion as it would be deemed a sensational story and one not only for the confines of this poker forum but society at large. You can only imagine how much the anti-gambling people would have loved to hear this story.

---

Scotty #

I agree that this is nothing but idle gossip. HOWEVER....if it were a story of how he'd turned his €100,000 winnings into €250,000 I don't think the thread would've been treated the same.

Disclaimer: This is a work of fiction. All information is the creation of the author's imagination. All persons, alive or dead, or events portrayed or depicted in this story are fictional and any resemblance to real people, organizations or incidents is purely coincidental.

NickyOD

It was a useless thread and completely untrue. Locked down fair and square. Rumours are one thing but completely ridiculous over the top lies is a different story. What edxactly was your good source G-Knome?

Waylander

ocallagh wrote:

that is also gossip.

it does not matter whether it is true or not.. or where the information came from. gossip is the act of spreading news from person to person, especially rumors or private information. As with all chat rooms on the internet, some information is ok... and some is not.

Can't say I agree with that. If that is the case discussing Andy Blacks final table performance in the WSOP is gossip and should be banned. This is a poker forum and you have to be able to discuss individual players and there performances. A tournament is a public event and discussing a players performance and winnigs in therefor in the public domain.

Fatboydim

I've only just come across this thread. Funny thing was I heard this rumour before going to Vienna. At least I overheard two guys at the Fitz talking about it. But I didn't know who the player was and it sounded like jealous BS at the time anyway. It is however so far off the mark as to be laughable. Apprently David Icke beliebes the planet is being run by Lizards. That statement I give the exact same weight of belief. No room for this kind of trash on boards. My advice mods would be to delete this thread and the original thread asap.

mewso

For the moment I don't see a need to close/delete this thread as long as the discussion does not return to the specifics of the previous one. For now it's a discussion about what should be in the public eye about a player and what shouldn't which is fine.

ianmc38

We can talk openly about how much someone won or lost in a tourney or online, for example Gigabet. That was of course speculation. So if we can speculate on the fortunes of players across the Atlantic why is it suddenly a problem when discussing Irish players?

connie147

I think the thread was rediculous and disappointed someone could write something like that about a fellow boarster,specially on heresay.
What HJ is saying is different.I agree that if HJ or indeed another boardster sees something at a game as in big win(or loss) he is entitled to discuss it.Then we are discussing facts.HERESAY is a different animal and using it to slate one of our own is totally out of order.

Daithio

I think there's a big difference between discussing somebody's winnings and discussing their losses. First off, if somebody has a big touch in a tournament it's going to be known anyway, and trying to stop people from talking about it is pointless. Secondly the nature of posts about people losing money are normally pretty begrudging, alot of poker players, normally those who aren't very good themselves, love hearing about/ talking about better players who are on a losing run, which is pretty pathetic IMO. If those sort of threads are going to be allowed then they definitely qualify for the bitch/rant/moan section, because that's all that they are.

pokypoky

A persons reputation is very important in our society and this kind of frivilous gossip can be hugely damaging to it, not to mention libellous. There's no problem if the information is grounded in fact or at least comes from sources that can defend their allegations but this instance is different particularly because the subject of the allegations seems to have no knowledge of the accusations being made and therefore can't reply to them if he so wishes.

cardshark202

pokypoky wrote:

A persons reputation is very important in our society and this kind of frivilous gossip can be hugely damaging to it, not to mention libellous. There's no problem if the information is grounded in fact or at least comes from sources that can defend their allegations but this instance is different particularly because the subject of the allegations seems to have no knowledge of the accusations being made and therefore can't reply to them if he so wishes.

Well he has posted on boards before under the handle: 'flipper'.

For the record I have no problem with gossip, there are about 50billion magazines devoted to gossip in the shops. People have a choice to believe things or not. You can't stop two people in a street spreading rumours so why try stop it on a public forum.

mewso

cardshark202 wrote:

You can't stop two people in a street spreading rumours so why try stop it on a public forum.

Because we can and will.

RoundTower

I thought the thread was interesting and shouldn't have been locked.

If the rumours are untrue they tend to die down pretty quickly anyway.

Musician - did Flipper or Fintan (who was very quick to jump to Flipper's "defence" in that thread - have any contact with you asking for the thread to be locked?

mewso

RoundTower wrote:

Musician - did Flipper or Fintan (who was very quick to jump to Flipper's "defence" in that thread - have any contact with you asking for the thread to be locked?

Hardly knew the thread existed until this one pointed it out. I was in the pub all day friday losing money on horses. Ollie would not approve.

The Ace Face

Read post and subsequent discussion, don't know the guy but he done well to win. Green eyed monsters whispering in the shadows really gets my back up, if he lost 100k/200k/500k thats his business no one elses.

The closing of the post was correct, witless gossiping like old women is not why I joined boards.ie. Again no one's business.

If anyone is that interested I advise you to ring/email/find the guy so he can tell you to **** off to your face you curtain twitcher.

Ray :mad:

RoundTower

musician wrote:

Hardly knew the thread existed until this one pointed it out. I was in the pub all day friday losing money on horses. Ollie would not approve.

Oops - I should check my facts better. Dev, were you contacted by anyone who wanted this taken down?

If gossip like this is not allowed can I suggest there should be a line added to the charter, which is fairly clear on what topics are and aren't appropriate for this forum.

cardshark202

If you don't allow gossip, where do you draw the line? How do you decipher the difference between news and gossip? If I posted a thread saying: "A friend of mine told me a certain player won €200k in cash games since last december" would that be ok? After all thats gossip too. there's too fine a line between gossip and news to be able to distinguish IMO.

mewso

I consider this common sense tbh. If you want to discuss Gigabet for example then fine because it's been brought onto the public domain on 2plus2 but to start discussing local players we see when we sit at the tables then I think it's common sense to be sure it is fact. This has been pretty standard on boards for a long time with any kind of speculation. If I post a rumour I heard that company A hires 5 year olds to work on their factory floor then that company may not be too happy if it's a total untruth and boards may suffer the consequences not the poster. In the same way an individual may not be too happy if we start posting rumours willy nilly.
I'm not in total agreement with some of the reasons against it posted here. The idea of begrudgery/jealousy, while probably true in some cases, would not apply to me where for example I like to see players who perpetuate myths about poker being exposed but again only if it's true.

RoundTower

musician wrote:

I consider this common sense tbh. If you want to discuss Gigabet for example then fine because it's been brought onto the public domain on 2plus2 but to start discussing local players we see when we sit at the tables then I think it's common sense to be sure it is fact.

Flipper is a sponsored player who represents pokerevents.ie. Like it or not, signing up for this kind of sponsorship is something that brings you into the public eye. I think it's MORE appropriate to gossip about a "celebrity" player like this than someone who gets a big touch and keeps himself to himself.

edit: I've never met him I think, but I might have played against him online. If he was someone I knew maybe I'd feel differently about it.

DeVore

OFFS.... I can't believe you people.

I closed the thread and I'm going to close this one in 24 hours too.

I closed it because its pure and simple libel. Firstly its hearsay since the original poster heard from a friend of a friend and clearly heard *wrong*.
Secondly I dont want to be the publisher of such gossip (and I define gossip as "relating hearsay which is incorrect"). Thirdly reporting a win incorrectly isnt damaging to the person. Reporting a big losing run (incorrectly) for a professional is damaging to their profession. Thats "Libel" right there.

Finally, and this is just as important, people taking joy in or smirking at others losing (and I certainly got a whiff of that off the OP) really pisses me off.

Wins are very easy to verify given that they come from tournaments by and large. Losses are not. If you could PROVE the loss or it was noteworthy (ie: if someone entered a 100k SNG with their winnings) then I would accept it as a topic of discussion. This, isnt.

This thread has 24 hours to live and I'm surprised at some people here agreeing with some twisted "right" to air other peoples dirty laundry, in public, incorrectly. Thats sheer b*ll*x.

DeV.

cardshark202

DeVore wrote:

Wins are very easy to verify given that they come from tournaments by and large. Losses are not.

I think I'll just highlight this for others to pick through. All I'll say is that I believe this statement to be completely wrong.

DeVore wrote:

Thirdly reporting a win incorrectly isnt damaging to the person.

How damaging is it to have people coming up to you congratulating you on a big 'win' when you've just had a terrible losing streak. That would certainly piss me off a hell of a lot more than someone telling someone else that I'm a losing player when I'm not.

Lafortezza

I heard Hectorjelly went BUSTO after staking his entire bankroll on a jockey at Cheltenham. Not the horse, just the jockey.

I am currently BUSTO until my broadband gets re-connected

Pokerevents

RoundTower wrote:

I thought the thread was interesting and shouldn't have been locked.

If the rumours are untrue they tend to die down pretty quickly anyway.

Musician - did Flipper or Fintan (who was very quick to jump to Flipper's "defence" in that thread - have any contact with you asking for the thread to be locked?

I can't see what you are trying to get at here. The post read Flipper was rumoured to have blown 100k on-line. I know Flipper does'nt play on line.
Should I not have posted this information?

Also I can assure you I've never approached any mods asking for any thread to be locked at any time.

Pokerevents

RoundTower wrote:

Flipper is a sponsored player who represents pokerevents.ie. Like it or not, signing up for this kind of sponsorship is something that brings you into the public eye. I think it's MORE appropriate to gossip about a "celebrity" player like this than someone who gets a big touch and keeps himself to himself.

edit: I've never met him I think, but I might have played against him online. If he was someone I knew maybe I'd feel differently about it.

I think you need to know the shot before you call it.
Flipper is in my opinion a top player and a very decent guy however he does not represent pokerevents.
He is not sponsored by pokerevents nor was there ever a sponsorhip deal discussed with him on be half of pokerevents.

RoundTower

Pokerevents wrote:

I think you need to know the shot before you call it.
Flipper is in my opinion a top player and a very decent guy however he does not represent pokerevents.
He is not sponsored by pokerevents nor was there ever a sponsorhip deal discussed with him on be half of pokerevents.

Fintan,
I was about to apologise and say I must have been misled by this post from Tom, and that I should have realised there was no affiliation between Flipper and Pokerevents.

Then I got curious to see if there was anything else that could have given me the wrong impression, and stumbled upon this thread.

Pokerevents wrote:

Irish Champion "Flipper" has joined the pokerevents team

and also this one.

Pokerevents wrote:

Pokerevents team- Pat O Callaghan, Dave Curtis, John Cullinane, Derek the Dangerous, Flipper and Vinny the Longlad

So now I'm not really sure what to believe. Did you mean some other "Flipper"? Are you even sure he doesn't play online?

cardshark202

RoundTower wrote:

Fintan,
I was about to apologise and say I must have been misled by this post from Tom, and that I should have realised there was no affiliation between Flipper and Pokerevents.

Then I got curious to see if there was anything else that could have given me the wrong impression, and stumbled upon this thread.

and also this one.

So now I'm not really sure what to believe. Did you mean some other "Flipper"? Are you even sure he doesn't play online?

Was about to mention these myself. I have to admit I'm pretty confused. Maybe it was more of a: "lets be friends" agreement rather than a sponsorship deal?

Pokerevents

RoundTower wrote:

Fintan,
I was about to apologise and say I must have been misled by this post from Tom, and that I should have realised there was no affiliation between Flipper and Pokerevents.

Then I got curious to see if there was anything else that could have given me the wrong impression, and stumbled upon this thread.

and also this one.

So now I'm not really sure what to believe. Did you mean some other "Flipper"? Are you even sure he doesn't play online?

The above is reference to the trip to Vienna which was originally booked by five pokerevents players namely Pat o Callaghan, Dave Curtis , Derek the dangerous, Vinny "longlad" and myself(all from galway). Several days after this was booked Flipper (and there is only 1 flipper I know of) rang me and asked if I was going to any European tournaments in the near future. I told him about that we were travelling to the E-wsop as a team and if he was interested I'd book flights etc. He said he would love to go and also offered to wear the pokerevents shirt for no charge. Thus the posts above. As it transpired He never actually wore the branded shirt as I did'nt have a size to fit him.
So again a sponsorship between pokerevents and Flipper never existed and was never discussed.
The evidence I have that Flipper does'nt play on-line is quite simple but I wont post on a public forum. Check your pm and believe what you will.

OilBeefHooked2

Pokerevents wrote:

I can't see what you are trying to get at here. The post read Flipper was rumoured to have blown 100k on-line. I know Flipper does'nt play on line.
Should I not have posted this information?

Also I can assure you I've never approached any mods asking for any thread to be locked at any time.

If flipper doesn't play online then he needs to get in touch with PPP or whoever else is using his name on the tribeca network because I know for a fact I've played against him on several occasions incl a qualifier for the PPP Irish open and in the tribeca 100k tourneys. This players name online is "wkieran" and states in his profile and I quote "won 150k in the boylesports.com irish poker chamionship 2006".

Btw any gossip of any sort good or bad is complete [EMAIL="bo*@ix"]bo*@ix[/EMAIL] and has no place in society! except maybe for those who are to stupid to see it for what it is!:mad:

Devore glad to hear your closing this thread again.

Dub13

A simple rule I go by when posting on any forum is only post something you would say to someones face.I wounder would the OP walk up to Flipper (or any other player) and say..."i hear you lost 100k ",If not then why post on boards.

I think the mods and Tom have made the right decision.Believe it or not Boards does have a level of responsibility and a legal case could be made that boards published Information that slanders and libels individuals.Also Boards has Moderates and it could be argued that they act like Editors and if information gets past them Boards stands by whatever has been said.


So to sum up its just not worth allowing posts like this to stay,if you do were is the line....?Whats to stop someone posting I hear Dub13 left the Fitz with a hot eastern European striper/all round good girl,then Mrs Dub13 reads this and is non to pleased.

Goodluck2me

The difference between posting about someone winning large amounts and losing large amounts is the damage it can do to ones reputation. if a person is alleged to have lsot seriosu amounts of money then this can bring ridicule to him and in some cases their families and therefore should not be encouraged, if it turns out later to be untrue it is highly unlikely that the original gossipers will tell of the amazing thing they heard of " youll never guess who's story about lsoing lots of money was untrue and had in fact broken even"... so the damage so far as a reputation is concerned is imo irrevesable...but on the other hand if they were to post about winnings the implications and repecussions to him and those close to him are much less serious and therefore could be allowed.....

RoundTower

Fintan has been in touch with me and cleared up some misunderstandings I had. I also believe he doesn't play online (although I think it was him who posted here once or twice).

I do think there should be something in the charter about gossip, if this thread is inappropriate. Apart from that I have nothing else to say.

bohsman

Dub13 wrote:

Dub13 left the Fitz with a hot eastern European striper/all round good girl

Congrats.

But belongs in brag sticky.

ArmaniJeanss

DeVore wrote:

Reporting a big losing run (incorrectly) for a professional is damaging to their profession. Thats "Libel" right there.
DeV.

Thats absolute ridiculous nonsense.
'F's success (or not) had very little to do with his reputation. His ability is everything, not his 'standing'. Either he can play the game profitably or not, what people say about him has zero impact on his ability.
To say he's a loser is like saying TigerWoods is a bottler or WayneRooney is a bully - valid non-libelous (sp) comment, whether its right or wrong.

RoundTower

ArmaniJeanss wrote:

Thats absolute ridiculous nonsense.
'F's success (or not) had very little to do with his reputation. His ability is everything, not his 'standing'. Either he can play the game profitably or not, what people say about him has zero impact on his ability.
To say he's a loser is like saying TigerWoods is a bottler or WayneRooney is a bully - valid non-libelous (sp) comment, whether its right or wrong.

In general I think it's more profitable to be thought of as a bad player. However for tournament players this might be different because of sponsorship opportunities.

mewso

RoundTower wrote:

In general I think it's more profitable to be thought of as a bad player. However for tournament players this might be different because of sponsorship opportunities.

That your last last word on it? Anyway charter has been updated.

Degag

DeVore wrote:

This thread has 24 hours to live and I'm surprised at some people here agreeing with some twisted "right" to air other peoples dirty laundry, in public, incorrectly. Thats sheer b*ll*x.

DeV.

Pick up the sun or the star this morning and you'll see the same thing.... turn on mtv you'll see the same thing... Every day there is some story about van nistelrooy going here and ronaldo going there, or about kate moss snorting cocaine. It happens. If a person is in the public eye, there is always going to be attention on him/her. Its not ethical, thats for sure, but in this day and age it just has to be accepted.

Flipper will have to accept the fact that he's in the public eye now. He won't like the fact that he's being talked about in this way (especially if its not true), neither would I, or neither would the next person, but it happens.

If we're not allowed talk about this, why should we be allowed talk about transfer rumours in the Soccer section? This is more tongue in cheek than being serious, but it is something to ponder on.

Dub13

Tackle69 wrote:

Pick up the sun or the star this morning and you'll see the same thing.... turn on mtv you'll see the same thing... Every day there is some story about van nistelrooy going here and ronaldo going there, or about kate moss snorting cocaine. It happens. If a person is in the public eye, there is always going to be attention on him/her. Its not ethical, thats for sure, but in this day and age it just has to be accepted.

You don't see a difference between Boards.ie and News Corporation who have a turnover of US$24 billion a year and assets of US$55 billion.

NickyOD

david-k wrote:

If flipper doesn't play online then he needs to get in touch with PPP or whoever else is using his name on the tribeca network because I know for a fact I've played against him on several occasions incl a qualifier for the PPP Irish open and in the tribeca 100k tourneys. This players name online is "wkieran" and states in his profile and I quote "won 150k in the boylesports.com irish poker chamionship 2006".

Btw any gossip of any sort good or bad is complete [EMAIL="bo*@ix"]bo*@ix[/EMAIL] and has no place in society! except maybe for those who are to stupid to see it for what it is!:mad:

Devore glad to hear your closing this thread again.

Although I don't think it is true that Kieran doesn't play online at all, he did tell me in Vienna that since winning the championship usernames have popped up on Tribecca similar to his name but they are not him.

DeVore

ArmaniJeanss wrote:

Thats absolute ridiculous nonsense.
'F's success (or not) had very little to do with his reputation. His ability is everything, not his 'standing'. Either he can play the game profitably or not, what people say about him has zero impact on his ability.
To say he's a loser is like saying TigerWoods is a bottler or WayneRooney is a bully - valid non-libelous (sp) comment, whether its right or wrong.

You don't understand the world of professional tournament play then. Being perceived as a winning player is crucial to being sponsored. You think a site wants to have Gus Hansen as their poster boy after the rumours of his massive losses. Would they want him just a little bit less then if those rumours weren't there? That little bit less is called "damages" by the court, and the author AND the publisher are liable for them.

Go read up on liable before you come along spouting off like a muppet. Public, wrong, damaging. Thats all it needs to be.

Tackle69 wrote:

Pick up the sun or the star this morning and you'll see the same thing.... turn on mtv you'll see the same thing... Every day there is some story about van nistelrooy going here and ronaldo going there, or about kate moss snorting cocaine. It happens. If a person is in the public eye, there is always going to be attention on him/her. Its not ethical, thats for sure, but in this day and age it just has to be accepted.

I'm always amazed by how many people say something "just has to be accepted". You know what, no it doesn't, at least not where I have a say about it.

So cut it out or I cut you out. Simple.

This thread is getting locked now.

DeV.