"inside the school of dryland swimming"

john kavanagh

can you guess which famous martial artist had this in his garage?

john kavanagh

dlofnep

You?

Millionaire

No..... Its Bruce Lee!

"A Man who was twisted and distorted by the Classical Mess"

Dragan

Didn't he refer to the other arts as "dry-land swimming" in that they were lots of movement getting you nowhere?

john kavanagh

yup - millionaire top marks:D

"Didn't he refer to the other arts as "dry-land swimming" in that they were lots of movement getting you nowhere?"

i think its pretty clear what he's saying.....but maybe everybody has their own interpretation:)

Millionaire

I think he mean't to glove up and spar...be ALIVE....AHEM!!!! LOL!!

Drop the Kata.

If you are interested in how modern MMA or SD evloved I highly recommen reading the Bruce Lee Fighting methods Vol 1 - 4 and the Tao of Jeet Kune Do. and Dan Insonanto wrote a great book (cannot remember name) that documented JKD and Bruces training evloution with loads of cool photos, and so has the fighting methods book great photos of the "real" bruce training.

Cabelo

I really have to say (I'm contractually obliged) that I'm not a Bruce fan. I've read the training books and they're alright but the big old book Milly is talking about was nasty.

I just dislike the man... it's how he saw the world. I don't like his, "If you come to me and ask me if I'm the best and I say yes you'll think I'm proud but if I say no, you'll know I'm lying" attitude. I just don't think he was all he's been made out to be.

I think he was the right lad at the right time and certainly in the right place... but the best? I think not.

FiannaGym.com

Let me get this straight, your saying you dont like Bruce Lee? I am shocked and hurt and offended and hurt!

Bruce Lee was the best, especailly considering what he achievd in a vacum. It's easy for Fedor to be "the best ever" of Musashi to be rated the best because they lived in an enviornemnt conducive to that type of training. Bruce Lee was operating on a whole new level when the rest of the world was playing tag, doing some dancing and dressing up.

I think this is best demonstrated in just how long it took for the rest of the word to follow. I mean when he became famous everybody started copying him, but very few actualy trained the way he did, usually they just changed to school from a Karate one to a Kung Fu one.

The legacy of this crap still lives on. Could Bruce Lee beat Wong Fei Hong, or Benny The Jet or JCVD or Fedor or Genki? Who cares.

Peace

Oh yeah nice post Kav thanks!

Cabelo

Yes Fianna, that's exactly what I'm saying.

I'm not a Musashi fan either... Philosophically that dewd is whack homes.

I'm not sure what bearing the fact that the rest of the world was dancing has on my opinion of Bruce Lee, but to be honest, I'm happier dancing. I don't care who he could beat and who beat him... I'm just not a fan. I prefer the earlier Chan stuff; the heavily technical 5 animal Kung Fu and Drunken Boxing... I find it easier to take Chan seriously despite his comedy work, maybe because of it.

FiannaGym.com

Thats fair enough, I know lots of people who prefer Chan. I dont know anyone who thinks CHan is a better Martial Artist than Bruce Lee. In fact Chan wouldnt be doing what he is doing now if it wasnt for Bruce Lee. So you might not like him but the joy you get from watching Jackie Chan is probably only possible because of Bruce Lee. (I thought it was cool that Jackie Chan was in enter the dragon, getting his neck broken by Bruce Lee and he was the stunt man who got kicked out the "window" in FIst of Fury.)

As a martial artist he is with only the very best of them. Man if people listened to him MMA would have been international since the 70's. Just think, MMA would have dominated the world BEFORE we got to have all these stupid internet arguemnts haha.

Its also great that your happier dancing. Bruce Lee was the Crown Colony Cha Cha champion. But dancing aint martial arts no matter how great it is.

Peace

Cabelo

FiannaGym.com wrote:

But dancing aint martial arts no matter how great it is.

it's just occurred to me... I don't think Fianna knows what I do

Roper

Where can I get one of those posters!!!!

Millionaire

If you read Matt Thorntons web site and his articles he wrote (abstract but interesting).... you will find that SBG is not too many generations removed from Bruce Lee.

JK is SBG a decendent of Bruce Lee?

Matt Thortons articles would in the high court, strongly affirm my hyopthesis!!!

Over to you Council!!!!

john kavanagh

Millionaire wrote:

JK is SBG a decendent of Bruce Lee?

not sure what you're asking? we certainly embrace the 'absorb what is useful, discard the rest' mentality. zero interest in emotional attachment to material....if said material wont work against a resisting opponent.

the only thing constant is change, change is inevitable

a constantly evolving curriculum...:D

Musashi

the only thing constant is change, change is inevitable

Tony Robbins? I heard him say the exact same thing on an infomercial. That is not to say it's not true! He is a freaky huge guy (are you listening Matt Thornton?) but he makes a lot of sense. Millionaire, I just got a couple books on NLP to learn more, looks like good stuff to know, even if it doesn't work as advertised it's good to have in the tool box! How did you go farther with it? PM or mail me please?
I'm on a self improvement kick atm. so I'm doing a lot of reading on various stuff, and a lot of practicing what I know works. Should be good and fun, the NLP and Positive Reinforcement is just part of it, Paleo Diet, Stuart McRobert on Weight Technique and "Beyond Brawn", "7 Habits of Effective People", with the tech manuals on windows and Linux systems, and the stuff I've lined up on raising kids/not ****ing them up. I got a lot on but I am feeling like I can handle it better now, be it Paleo or Tony Robbins or even MMA (=JK). Just thought I'd share in case any one else is doing the same or thinking about it?
If any of the lads are into Weight Training they may like to join this newly formed forum?

http://teamtest.freeforumsite.com/index.php

Just spreading the word, it's only for lifters really, not that it's "Exclusive" or excluding, but that is the purpose of the forum so threads on conditioning or Endurance aren't really that relevant, it's all about the Iron!

MaxBax

john kavanagh wrote:

not sure what you're asking? we certainly embrace the 'absorb what is useful, discard the rest' mentality. zero interest in emotional attachment to material....if said material wont work against a resisting opponent.

the only thing constant is change, change is inevitable

a constantly evolving curriculum...:D

what's changed in the last 18 months john?

Millionaire

john kavanagh wrote:

not sure what you're asking?

Was curious...was Matt Thornton a JKD student, before he found his own path?

He seems to take alot of references JKD.



Re the NLP.

Got a few books on it over here. Did not go on to the next level yet. I will master the basics later this year. and Master means inside out. Thats how Tony Robbins got so good at NLP, he learned it inside out.

Get the Edge and Personal Power II are excellent tony robbins products. well worth listening to.

john kavanagh

Musashi wrote:

Tony Robbins? I heard him say the exact same thing on an infomercial

you will NEVER find me quoting tony robbins, cant stomach his stuff. i was quoting Benjamin Disraeli.

"Was curious...was Matt Thornton a JKD student, before he found his own path?"

yes, with dan inosanto.

FiannaGym.com

Cabelo wrote:

it's just occurred to me... I don't think Fianna knows what I do

Cabelo I think you do capoeira. That doesnt impact what I said one bit.

Peace

Michael O Leary

john kavanagh wrote:

you will NEVER find me quoting tony robbins, cant stomach his stuff. i was quoting Benjamin Disraeli.

"Was curious...was Matt Thornton a JKD student, before he found his own path?"

yes, with dan inosanto.

Hi John,

I had a look at Matt's website which I found genuinely interesting. It mentions that he still teaches weapons but does not call it Escrima anymore due to changes. Can you tell me a little about it? This is not a loaded question with the intention of starting a big debate not that either of us would shy away from one anyway.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

john kavanagh

Michael O Leary wrote:

Hi John,

I had a look at Matt's website which I found genuinely interesting. It mentions that he still teaches weapons but does not call it Escrima anymore due to changes. Can you tell me a little about it? This is not a loaded question with the intention of starting a big debate not that either of us would shy away from one anyway.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

on request yes. he has a stick fighting program called SMACK...or something. it takes about 15-20mins to learn...the rest is then isolation. i did a little of it.....but to be honest i've no interest in it....i can remember most of it though and would be happy to show it to you next time your down:)

Michael O Leary

That would be great, thanks.

I like the title of his progamme. Very catching.

I would be curious to see if his approach to weapons mirrors in any way our own approach to Escrima. I am very limited in experience and knowledge of Escrima (although I am improving all the time, and the more I learn I realise the less I know) however my organisation feels that there are too many abstract drills and fancy movements to Escrima such as fine motor movements (like putting finger locks and fancy disarms onto people).

Rather than hitting our opponents sticks with our own as the primary movement and then putting a lock, disarm or even striking our opponent, we instead as our primary movement concentrate on striking our opponent in the head using Gross motor movements. Some people would feel that there is not very many techniques to our Escrima however we prefer to spend most of our time making the basics work better. This is why Matt's statement, "basics are only fundamentals done badly while advanced is fundamentals done properly" really rang true for me and will remain with me until I die.

We feel there there was a problem in "traditional" Escrima which we have attempted to rectify and it obvious that Matt felt the same. I am just interested to see if there is any crossover in our respective solutions. However I understand that this is not your area of specialisation and I feel that I am not at the stage where I can critically compare. So yeah, lets do a bit for interest.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie