Common misconceptions about BJJ.

dlofnep

I've seen alot of posts regarding BJJ that sometimes downright irritate me. they are based out of complete and utter ignorance and hopefully this post will resolve them.

Firstly, alot of people think grapplers in a street scenario will work a typical bjj guard position from the bottom. (The guard: http://www.ices.utexas.edu/~markb/brazil/guard.jpg www.go) For some reason, alot of people are under the influence that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is an art that has you work off of your back the entire time. This is further than the truth. It does however give you a near unlimited amount of attacks, sweeps and defensive postures that allow you to defend yourself and get the upper hand should you be on your back.

In BJJ, there are generally two types of players. Guys that like to work from their back and guys that like to work from the top. It's personal preference at the end of the day but both guys will be fluent in both top and bottom. In a self defense situation, I'd personally like to work from the top and I'm sure other BJJ guys would too.

A typical non-bjj believers vision of a BJJ guy in a fight would have him on his back, with broken glass bottles sticking in his back and 4 or 5 guys kicking him in the face while he is being bit by the other guy hes trying to armbar.

A real scenario would most likely have the BJJ guy secure a takedown, be it a leg sweep, a double leg or whatever means possible. From there they'd most likely try to obtain the most comfortable top position for them - The mount ( http://bjj.org/techniques/aranha/mountescape/mount_escape1.jpg ) or knee-ride ( http://www.clubs.psu.edu/up/quantumjujitsu/kneeride.JPG ) would probably be the most commonly picked methods because of the control you have over the other person and the endless different attacks you can perform from each position.

Obtaining each of these positions would be relatively straight forward. Why? Because unless you live in Rio, chances are the other guy will not have a ground game and won't have the takedown defense to be able to stop your takedown. This is reality. Unless you've been to a BJJ class and sparred, you might ignore this reality

What does this mean for the BJJ guy? He's no longer viewed as a guy who works off of his back on concrete with broken glass everywhere - People now understand that there are a wealth of attacks and positions in BJJ and that is why the art is so near-complete. you should also understand how now BJJ would apply in a self defense situation.

Quillo

In previous posts I have suggested that the primary focus of BJJ (it seems to me) is to take the fight to the ground.

Whether on your back or mounted on top of someone you are still "fighting on the ground" in the sense that you are off your feet, your arms and legs are occupied and you are very much at the mercy of those still standing.

I have seen a lot of BJJ classes (as I share a hall with BJJ players) and it seems to me that it's all ground work or take down to ground work.

Is this view of the art incorrect ?

dlofnep

Quillo wrote:

In previous posts I have suggested that the primary focus of BJJ (it seems to me) is to take the fight to the ground.

Whether on your back or mounted on top of someone you are still "fighting on the ground" in the sense that you are off your feet, your arms and legs are occupied and you are very much at the mercy of those still standing.

I have seen a lot of BJJ classes (as I share a hall with BJJ players) and it seems to me that it's all ground work or take down to ground work.

Is this view of the art incorrect ?

Yes, it is primarly based on the ground. You are at the mercy of those standing whether you are on the ground or standing. Like I said before, if you get in those situations, run away.

john kavanagh

correct. but don't confuse BJJ with MMA - 2 different things...that share the same training method.

as an example - Tim Murphy from here was in a MMA fight (against a very tough opponent!) on sunday night. now tim is well versed in BJJ.....but also MMA. so did he run out and 'throw guard' or try and pull the fight to the ground?? no, he ko'ed the guy in a couple of seconds! BUT he was ready for the ground JUST to be sure to be sure...

MMA does not = 'dragging opponent to ground'

dlofnep

Exactly.

Millionaire

so another question...

You know if you in clinch, and you see takedowns..(forgive my ignorance, this is the only way I can describe this...) ... takedowns that look like what that big All Black did on Brian O Drsicoll(picking the guy up and slamming him on his head). Are they BJJ or from what?

What is the difference bwtn Sub Wrestling and BJJ.?

Is BJJ complicated to learn, and pick up the basics?

I did some ground fighting in Israel, (probably techniques stolen from Bjj, and put into KM), and I found some of the leg locks hard to learn.

dlofnep

Generally takedowns will be covered in BJJ class. Some takedowns may be from amatuer wrestling, but alot are taught in BJJ class - at least the ones I've been in. Submission Wrestling is just BJJ without a gi.

BJJ is a very complex art, but has very simple concepts. You should pick up the basics within 6 months - Enough so that you can roll around and kinda get a feel for everything and start to become creative. JK would probably be best answering this however.

john kavanagh

what's in a name? we prefer to use the terms Stand-up, Clinch and Ground. these ranges are ever evolving because of the training method of Aliveness. whats a 'bjj' arm bar as compared to a KM arm bar or judo arm bar or sub wrestling arm bar??? NONE! these is slight differences......but they wouldn't make sence to anyone with less than a purple belt in BJJ and year experience in other ground fighting systems.

however the fact remains its the training method that counts - afterall a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick....and an arm bar is just an armbar

with that been said i'll attempt to answer your questions

"takedowns that look like what that big All Black did on Brian O Drsicoll(picking the guy up and slamming him on his head). Are they BJJ or from what?"

you'll see that technique performed by wrestlers, judo guys, sombo guys....and even rugby guys! why? because its an effective way of throwing somebody to the ground. i dont think any one delivery system (bjj, judo, wrestling etc etc) could claim to own it (throwing a man to the ground has been around for a long long time) and even if one could, who cares? the only thing of interest is that given the right circumstances this is an effective way of taking somebody down...how do we know? well you can see it done in countless matches

"What is the difference bwtn Sub Wrestling and BJJ.?"

bjj = gi
sub wrestling = no gi

depending on the competition there might be other slight differences in the rules but 99% one and the same thing.

"Is BJJ complicated to learn, and pick up the basics?"

how longs a piece of string?? haha. seriously though i think its easier to learn than striking. i think grappling is more natural than striking.....look at kids playing around headlocks, trips, rolling around the ground. but to be effective at mma competition you need to be good at striking and grappling.

Millionaire

good thanks for the answers gentlemen.

As you all can probably guess, being humilated by little Thai guys on a daily basis, has opened by my interest massively in grappling, clinching, and ground work.

The Alive video is very good too.

I have actually realised that is a great fun all this clinch work, and i am getting up to an hour daily. These guys up here in Nong Ki, are really good at the clinch, and its practiced 50% of training time.

Might suss out a few seminars in bangkok (its 6 hours in the bus away) and start to attend, and learn! There is some good MMA schools in Bangkok.

Michael O Leary

Hi John,

I also read that in submission competitions the aim is just that, to make someone submit whereas BJJ competitions is based on who has the most points through the use of positional strategy. eg: Passing someones guard and gaining points. The reasoning being that getting into an advantageous position takes more skill than simply choking someone when you are in the position.

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

dlofnep

No Michael - BJJ's aim is to win via a submission. Because of a time limit, if nobody secures a submission, they will win on points which can be obtained via guard passes/ holding certain positions, takedowns, ect..

All submission grappling and bjj competitions I know of implement these rules.

Roper

Comes naturally indeed.
Before I was exposed to MMA/BJJ training, we used to sort of "make it up" ourselves. It was bad training for the most part (think TKD in the clinch and ground range, shudder) but I could always do this one throw, I was just arsing about to be honest but I could make it work. Lo and behold, I'm at Andy Ryan's gym one night and this guy does the very throw to me. So I ask him and he says it's (insert japanese name here!). Now of course this guy was a judo black belt and did it infinitely better than me, but I thought it illustrated the effectiveness of delivery systems like Judo. They work because they come naturally, not because someone stood compliantly infront of someone else, but because two guys were wrestling one day. I had inadvertantly, through messing around, stumbled accross an effective technique.

Dragan

Roper wrote:

I had inadvertantly, through messing around, stumbled accross an effective technique.

Which if everyone stops to think about it, is surely how ALL martial arts came about. Two people going at it, for fun or for otherwise, coming up with idea's.

Roper

Dragan wrote:

Which if everyone stops to think about it, is surely how ALL martial arts came about. Two people going at it, for fun or for otherwise, coming up with idea's.

Yes, but then somebody decided they knew best, and organised it in such a way that nobody would 'go at it' at all anymore. There are far better ways (I think I'm doing them now) of training than just arsing about like me and a few mates used to, but I still reckon that messing around was a better method than training in a contrived art. (too deadly to use in sparring etc.)