Aliveness for striking training..

Millionaire

Some of the guys on there talk about Aliveness training.
I certainly see how that applies to grappling.

How does Aliveness translate to training strikes?

Alot of strike training, you working on heavy bags etc,
is that considered Alive?

Cabelo

Man I was striking yesterday... I felt so alive!


(Sorry, Roper based joke...)

dlofnep

Millionaire wrote:

Some of the guys on there talk about Aliveness training.
I certainly see how that applies to grappling.

How does Aliveness translate to training strikes?

Alot of strike training, you working on heavy bags etc,
is that considered Alive?

No it's not considered alive. Alive would be integrating it into your sparring.

Millionaire

dlofnep wrote:

No it's not considered alive. Alive would be integrating it into your sparring.

How do I do that?

I spar strikes, and do a lot of clinch sparring daily.

I have to do bags, pad man, and shadow too, its all part of the mix.

dlofnep

like, when you spar, you are already integrating it. Hitting a bag on it's own is not alive however.

john kavanagh

aliveness - as in the SBG sense? if yes then probably better someone from SBG answers the question;)

heavy bag work would be considered more a conditioning tool than an 'alive' training method. why? well there's no sense of timing or resistance - Timing, Motion and Resistance/Energy = Aliveness = functional training method.

however a good pad man can certainly give you an Alive workout - as you well know!

what is Aliveness - google video clip

explained again

...and again

Roper

I used to think aliveness was all about "sparring". That's not the case, that's actually stage 3 in a good alive method.

Actually most striking training is Alive. It's when you try to over-complicate that it becomes dead. And bag work is only alive if you fill the bag full of really small people...

Roper

Gents, I wrote a wee article on this very subject with the intention of putting it in our school's newsletter, which I never bothered. But it seems applicable to post it here. This is just some of it, I've edited it to save you some of the more boring details so if there's a lack of continuity... that's why.

Anyway read and let me know what you think.

Since we’ve taken the decision to alter our training methods to reflect a full-contact ethos, we’ve had to rethink virtually everything we do when it comes to how we coach striking. Now most of this is easy enough, we’ve had the benefit of training with some top drawer strikers and striking coaches so we knew where we wanted to arrive at the end of the transition, but how to get there was a difficulty. It’s all very well changing your own training, but when it comes to body of students accustomed to semi-contact, it’s another story. We didn’t just have to change drills, methods and techniques, we also had to deal with the mindset of “scoring” versus “hurting”, and also had to deal with the in-built fear of the term “full contact” that is drilled into people. This is basically how we went about it, and how we think we’ve done so far.

Firstly, we took a decision never to use the term “full contact”. We did this for two reasons. One, the term has developed a meaning quite apart from the reality. When people hear it they think of full-contact competition, which is of course radically different from the training, where nobody gets hurt or knocked out. The vast majority of people who train with us will never compete. Two, if you train in any good Thai or Boxing gym, you will never hear that term. Why? Because it’s inherent, there is no other way. Besides, it’s semi or light contact that are the newcomers, if it wasn’t for these terms, there would be no need for the term “full contact”.

Safety equipment was next on our hit-list. Semi contact gloves are a no- no when it comes to hitting hard. If you allow two people to swing away at each other with these gloves on, one or both will get hurt. Be it cut, bruised or have hand damage. This might seem blatantly obvious to anyone from a boxing or Muay Thai background. For an example, I’ve been at countless boxing contests and have rarely seen a bloody nose. Whenever I go to a semi-contact tournament, I seem to see a fair few. In my opinion this is due to inadequate safety equipment and loose contact rules. (Before I go on, I’d like to point out that there are a lot of very good organisations putting on excellent tournaments with good referees who control the contact. But these seem to be in the minority.) In short, to train how to hit hard properly, Boxing gloves are a must. Otherwise the heavy bag or the focus pads are going to take their toll on your hands and wrists.

Previously, when we wanted to introduce people to sparring, we would do so in a point for point format, or by using various "drills" which involved little or no timing or resistance. The idea being that you were only going to get hit once and the fight stops, therefore eliminating a bit of the fear involved in sparring as a beginner. We were never too keen on the idea but they served a purpose, but of course, as tools for improvement, they were as dead as dead can be. Now at this stage you have to bear in mind that we’re also on a charm offensive, trying to make hitting each other harder (and mostly being hit harder) appealing. This isn’t like walking into a Muay Thai gym and knowing what you’re getting. Some people have been training here three years in the old style, plus there are also concerned parents to think of. It would be bad coaching for us to just say, ‘okay, do that, but just do it harder than before’. So we put our heads together and with a little patience and a lot of laughing at failed attempts, we put together a series of drills and games that introduce beginners to the idea of contact without taking a step-backwards in terms of the principle of aliveness we’ve tried to incorporate. We think we’ve done okay, and most importantly, they’re a lot of fun even for guys who’ve been training a long time.

Millionaire

Good video on Alive.

he says. "its not pretty, but its the only way to learn" and he is RIGHT!

Geoff Thompson said about his guys fighting in all ranges " its looks real scrappy, but if you knew what they are doing...its beauty"

Alot of KM training would be dead patterns. and the making the drill look smooth and fluid, and sharp.

Yes pad man over here is alive definately!

Good article Roper.

MaxBax

john kavanagh wrote:

aliveness - as in the SBG sense? if yes then probably better someone from SBG answers the question;)

heavy bag work would be considered more a conditioning tool than an 'alive' training method. why? well there's no sense of timing or resistance - Timing, Motion and Resistance/Energy = Aliveness = functional training method.

however a good pad man can certainly give you an Alive workout - as you well know!

what is Aliveness - google video clip

explained again

...and again

Is Aliveness a SBGi exclusive term?

john kavanagh

the concept certainly isn't....walk into 99% of gyms with combat athletics (judo/wrestling/thai/bjj etc etc) and you'll see Aliveness as a training method in action. i haven't actually heard the term used anywhere else but thats not the important part.

"Alot of KM training would be dead patterns. and the making the drill look smooth and fluid, and sharp. "

yes looking good against a static, non-resisting opponent is the basis of most non-functional training methods

MaxBax

I need to make my striking more ALiVE I think. I've got into a habit of hitting static pads.

/me adds movement.

Millionaire

yeah,. the drill Matt shows at the start of the Alive vid, would be typical of KM, and also of Jeet Kune Do ( and Vunaks RATT system).

I was going a bit of poking about on his web site, and I see where he came for a JKD background, and worth a good article in reply to an article JKDs Mark Stewart wrote. being a bit of a Bruce Lee head, I was delighted.

its interesting where alive training methods, has surpassed the JKD type drills, as demoed in the vid.

Alive in definately a better way to train. backed up with good conditioning on the bags etc.