Cheap firearms....

mayhem#

According to the Indo Glocks seems to be on sale:
" Yesterday it emerged that handguns such as the 9mm Glock cost as little as €220 on the black market. A sub-machine gun such as a Ingram Mac-10, which is capable of firing 1,200 rounds per minute, can be bought for just over €700.

According to one report an AK-47 assault rifle - favoured in the past by the IRA - can be imported for under €1,300 while the Skorpion CZ91S machine pistol costs around €875. "

E.

civdef

Either sloppy writing, or illegal arms dealers have embraced loss leader marketing.

mayhem#

Sorry, can't reply right now, am on my way to bag some cheap-ass Glocks....

E.

Vegeta

have they said how much ammo is for the AK, always wanted one for my drive bys :rolleyes:

The media will make a story of anything, have they listed how much those would be if legally bought or do u have a link to the article

Rovi

Here's the full article from unison.ie-

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Arial]Lethal handguns can be bought on street for €220[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]
Paul Melia

POWERFUL handguns are available on the streets of Dublin for as little as €220 - and criminals are renting them out for specific "jobs" for even less.
After a week of unprecedented violence which saw four shootings in the capital - two alone on Saturday - it has emerged that criminal gangs are renting guns out for a couple of hundred euro at a time and that younger drug dealers are most likely to resort to using extreme violence to settle scores.
Two Lithuanian men were in hospital yesterday after being shot in a house on Ashington Heath in Cabra at 10pm on Saturday. One of the victims was shot in the hand, and the other received a gunshot wound to the leg.
Gardai searched the area for the gunmen and discovered a quantity of drugs. Three men, believed to be Polish, were arrested on drugs charges but two were later released.
One of them is expected to appear in court at a later date.
The incident is the fourth shooting this week, two of which had fatal consequences.
On Saturday, 23-year-old Karl Byrne was shot three times on waste ground near Berryfield Drive in Finglas. He managed to flee to the safety of a nearby house and is now in a stable condition in hospital.
Last Friday, Shay Bradley (27) was found dead in a car near Blackhorse Avenue in Cabra. He died of gunshot wounds.
And last Sunday, 22-year-old mother Donna Cleary, from Castlekevin Road in Kilmore, died after shots were fired into a house where she was attending a 40th birthday party.
Yesterday it emerged that handguns such as the 9mm Glock cost as little as €220 on the black market. A sub-machine gun such as a Ingram Mac-10, which is capable of firing 1,200 rounds per minute, can be bought for just over €700.
According to one report an AK-47 assault rifle - favoured in the past by the IRA - can be imported for under €1,300 while the Skorpion CZ91S machine pistol costs around €875.
Amendments to the Criminal Justice Bill, due before the Dail in the next three weeks, contain proposals for a gun amnesty. However, such a measure may prove ineffective as hardened criminals are unlikely to hand their weapons over.
Gardai recovered 359 illegally-held firearms under Operation Anvil, launched last May, but sources say it is anyone's guess as to the number of illegal weapons in Ireland.
Even if guns were handed in under the amnesty, replacement items could bought for less than the cost of a personal computer.
Senior Gardai told the Irish Independent yesterday that handguns are often rented out for particular jobs, and that some weapons are linked to a number of crimes.
He added: "Some of these incidents involving shootings aren't about drugs. It could be a falling out where a few years ago a fella might get a couple of digs or reprimanded in some other way, but now he'll get a bullet, it's the way life is now."
Gardai believe that younger criminals are more likely to use deadly force to settle scores than "older hands".
Younger dealers, they added, would often seek retribution for their loss of drugs business due to the perceived loss of face among their associates.
[/FONT]

Clare gunner

CRAP!!Maybe in some "boyz in da hood"movie that the Indo reporter has mistaken for reality.Glocks for 200 quid????I'm off to "Homeboy Retail".
Try four grand for the AK homie!!Plus 200 per clip mutha."[Appx street value in Limerick last time I was offerd]

Sparks

Hmmm. This trend's getting a bit worrying (the inaccurate reporting I mean, not the price check). Wrote to the editor, maybe it'll be published?

Dear Sir,
Reading monday's article by Paul Melia on firearms on the black market worried me greatly. I speak as one of an estimated 180,000 licenced firearms holders in this state who have legitimate reasons for holding firearms (mine are held for the purposes of Olympic target shooting); who have never broken any law, and whom are judged by the state to be safe to hold these firearms. I and those like me who shoot regularly, are deeply concerned over the rise in the criminal abuse of firearms by criminal elements. We too have children and wives and families and loved ones who could be reported on by your paper or another as being the next innocent bystanders to be shot, and every last one of us sleeps easier in our beds when criminals who engage in gun crime are arrested by the Gardai and jailed. We applaud the successful prosecution of these criminals who put us all at risk. We are responsible people who use firearms safely in the course of our daily lives for reasons from Olympic target shooting (where, do not forget, our olympic clay pigeon shooting team is one of the best in the world, with gold medals from events around the world including the world championships and an 8th-place finish in the Athens Olympics) to hunting (where hunters in this country spend more of their own time and money than any state body on the on-the-ground practicalities of conservation in the wild) to general agricultural use (where the use of a shotgun on predators around meat animals is a necessary fact of life to allow us the luxury of buying our meat over a counter instead of having to hunt for it ourselves).

But, perhaps because of the familiarity we have with firearms which we gain in the same way that a driver will gain familiarity with cars or a pilot with aircraft, we feel worry at the manner in which the details of gun crime are reported. Paul Melia's article reported on the prices of firearms on the black market, but the figures he reported were in conflict with reality, in some cases far too low to be believed, in others far too high. This is not meant to be a comment on "rip-off Ireland", but to point out that on basic facts your reporting was inaccurate. This is not the first time we have seen this, not is it by any means the most worrying instance, and for those of us who are legitimate firearms owners, this trend is very worrying. It worries us because not only do we have a long history of being the subject of hastily drafted legislation, drawn up by people who lacked technical knowlege of what they were drafting laws to control; but also because we know from this same history that such legislation does nothing for public safety (which means our safety as well), because we, the legitimate firearms owners, are the only citizens who wind up obeying such legislation. Criminals ignore it, as they ignore the more serious penalties that go with murder and manslaughter in this country. If they will risk life in prison for murder, why would three years in jail for possession of an illegal firearm deter these criminals?

So I ask of you sir, in the coming days, when your paper reports on firearms crime and the government's plans to protect us from it, PLEASE ensure your facts are correct and your reporters are familiar with how the legislation will affect all of us. Otherwise, we will believe we are safe when we are not; that we have sensible, well-considered leglislation when we do not; and that we are protected by a well-resourced and highly trained police force, when we do not.

Yours Sincerely,

Double Barrel

Well done Sparks, a very well put together response.
I am writing my letter now.

Clare gunner

Sparks,
An exellent letter.But one pointer;it is too long.An editor will get thousands of letters a week,and to wade thru these he will cut out the "long winded" epistles ruthlessy.If ,a long letter is published it will be because some sort of national event or personality is responding to a critique or comment on an incident,occasion etc.And even then they are liable to edition.If the ed thinks your letter is publishable,he will edit out ,what he thinks are unimportant or trival points.Which might be the most germane points of your arguement.Thuss the reader might get a letter that is totally misleading or distorted or missing some facts,and be none the wiser as to what you were on about in the first place.
To get a letter published,keep it to max four paragraphs with a point per paragraph,either refuting,correcting an inaccuracy,stating your point,and conclusion.Best to read your effort,and think how will you get this message over quicker??Cut out the excess padding,and then re read the letter.You have to get your points over to the man in the street quickly and in a way it sticks in his mind. Still and all,it is good to see that you are making the effort,mention also what association you are repersenting or a member of.It seems to add more weight to getting your letter published.
Regds
CG

Sparks

Good points CG, but I've had longer letters published before; and I wanted to strictly avoid the soundbite approach for this. Soundbites work well in some areas; but not when you're trying to convince people of your rationality and care for safety - then, they come off as crass and unintelligent and arrogantly uninterested in the viewpoints of others. Not an image we ever want to convey.

Also, I was representing myself, not any association. If a few more of us did that kind of thing a bit more often (but with care rather than writing angry letters - the thought of angry people with guns would be about the worst image we could put forward!), then perhaps we'd have a better media image.

thelurcher

Have to say that you would in fact get a handgun for €200 - thing is though that it would most likely have been already used in a serious crime.

Clare gunner

thelurcher wrote:

Have to say that you would in fact get a handgun for €200 - thing is though that it would most likely have been already used in a serious crime.

Yeah,and you will go down for everything that gun was involved in as well.
Why bother,when you can get for proper money a totally clean gun?But I suppose the "cheaper is better"mentality even exists in the criminal world.

thelurcher

Yeah,and you will go down for everything that gun was involved in as well.

That's obviously why they're so cheap :rolleyes:

Why bother,when you can get for proper money a totally clean gun?

The scumbags are actually looking for up to €3000 - easy then to see why the guards are insisting on monitored alarms etc. for handguns.

Melia's article is NOT misleading or sloppy reporting.

I also can't see cheap guns on the black market as being a major threat to our legitimate firearms - the fact that they are actually a lot more expensive in reality is more of a problem - i.e. better chance of scum breaking into our houses.
AFAIK you still can't license SMG's and assault rifles here - even if you could you'd only have 100rnds on your licence so it would be a short firefight :rolleyes:

Sparks

AFAIK you still can't license SMG's and assault rifles here

Been done already.

- even if you could you'd only have 100rnds on your licence so it would be a short firefight

A short firefight is one round. 100 would be a rather long one, by police standards anyway.

Clare gunner

The scumbags are actually looking for up to €3000 - easy then to see why the guards are insisting on monitored alarms etc. for handguns.

Question of supply and demand.You need somthing that is in short supply or illegal,the prices go up.

Melia's article is NOT misleading or sloppy reporting.

Open to debate,have seen Ingrams described as Angrams, AK16's .22 sawn off shotguns.BTW the price he mentions for the Ingram came from a lifted article on a price that was mentioned for an Ingram used in Limerick in a trial of the feudin fammilies.

I also can't see cheap guns on the black market as being a major threat to our legitimate firearms - the fact that they are actually a lot more expensive in reality is more of a problem - i.e. better chance of scum breaking into our houses.

The more that will show up on the streets the cheaper they wil become,and with the East EU opening up,and open border policies,and enough ruthless chacters from there who think our "hard men"are big girls,who are finding Ireland a doddle to set up their drug supplying,prostitution and arms supplying,and woe betide anyone who gets in their way.Where AKs and as much ammo that you can carry cost really about 100euros,an RPG costs 300 euros.As the song goes;You[we] aint seen nothin yet!

SteveS

Sparks wrote:

If a few more of us did that kind of thing a bit more often (but with care rather than writing angry letters - the thought of angry people with guns would be about the worst image we could put forward!), then perhaps we'd have a better media image.

Excellent letter and I wish you the best of luck. I honestly wonder if they help, though I agree that angry letters perpetuate the image of the "crackpot gun owner."

Newspapers here consistently print articles that range from mildly biased to outright lies. Most just emphasize the criminal misuse, but others go off into the land of make-believe. There was a series of reports last year that tried to link gun shows with terrorism, suggesting that they purchased their guns from small-town gun shows.

There is currently some legislation making it's way through the House that will make some minor changes to the law in regards to using lethal force for self-defense. The changes are very minor, but the some in the press have called it the "make my day" law and suggested that it will lead to shoot-outs in the streets and children shooting children on the playground. In their defense, I think that much of this is coming from anti-gun "experts," but that is still sloppy reporting, in my opinion.

The scumbags are actually looking for up to €3000 - easy then to see why the guards are insisting on monitored alarms etc. for handguns.

Will this make a difference? I am not suggesting that you just leave them sitting out in the open, but there were several studies done here that seemed to suggest that laws requiring firearms to be locked had no effect on crime rates.

Clare gunner

Is in the Indo today letters coloum.Good stuff Sparks.:D Although they did chop some of it.
Angry gun owner letters.
Well,so long as they are not of the "guns good,take them bad,me kill anyone who try"type of format.But of a thought out rational,factual arguement,that shows why you are annoyed and angry to be made a scapegoat should be well recived.

Sparks

Huzzah! Always a bit gratifying, that. Mind you, it was a bit mangled by the editing!
Letters page

Fears of the licensed firearms holder
Reading Monday's article by Paul Melia on firearms on the black market worried me greatly.

I speak as one of an estimated 180,000 licensed firearms holders in this state who have legitimate reasons for holding firearms (mine are held for the purposes of Olympic target shooting); who have never broken any law, and whom are judged by the state to be safe to hold these firearms.

I and those like me who shoot regularly, are deeply concerned over the rise in the criminal abuse of firearms.

We too have children and wives and families and loved ones who could be the next innocent bystanders to be shot.

We applaud the successful prosecution of these criminals who put us all at risk. We are responsible people who use firearms safely in the course of our daily lives for reasons from Olympic target shooting (our Olympic clay pigeon shooting team is one of the best in the world, with gold medals from events around the world including the world championships and an eighth place finish in the Athens Olympics) to hunting and general agricultural use.

Hunters in this country spend more of their own time and money than any state body on the on-the-ground practicalities of conservation in the wild.

Perhaps because of the familiarity we have with firearms we worry at the manner in which the details of gun crime are reported.

Paul Melia's article reported on the prices of firearms on the black market, but the figures he reported were in conflict with reality, in some cases far too low to be believed, in others far too high.

Your reporting was inaccurate. And for those of us who are legitimate firearms owners, this trend is very worrying.

It worries us because not only do we have a long history of being the subject of hastily drafted legislation, drawn up by people who lacked technical knowledge of what they were drafting laws to control, but also because we know that such legislation does nothing for public safety. We, the legitimate firearms owners, are the only citizens who wind up obeying such legislation.

Criminals ignore it, as they ignore the more serious penalties that go with murder and manslaughter in this country.

If they will risk life in prison for murder, why would three years in jail for possession of an illegal firearm deter these criminals?
MARK DENNEHY,
GREYSTONES,
CO. WICKLOW

johngalway

Well done Sparks! Saw the title this morning and I was like "I wonder is that the one i read online.." and it is

Bit mangled alright but it's on the right track at least

Riggser

Nice one Sparks. Glad you left out the one on the 4.5mm ice bullets

Clare gunner

Hmm,especially the bit about asking Journalists to be more accurate on the reporting of firearms related matters.:rolleyes:

Sparks

Well, it's not likely to have much of an impact CG, but at least they know we're not just using the paper to line the cat's box