Bans and Unbans

mewso

Today I banned 2 posters for breaking a rule I posted as a sticky (the rules stickys by the way appear to go ignored with incredible regularity) . This was something the mods had decided as a radical solution to the everyday problems with this forum. I consider it almost unmoddable (if thats a word) at the moment. The next time I visit the forum and 2 more posters have posted threads about events in the main forum saying we could move/delete the thread if we wished. Gee thanks. This completely negates the banning of the others. I knew I would have to either apply this ban rule to everyone or give up on it. Well I've given up on it. The others have been unbanned. A warning system may be a better solution as has been suggested to me but until we decide on something knock yourselves out.

wayfarer

It may be an idea to consider employing the same system as the soccer forum where you have to make a request before you can start posting. Its a bit drastic but it would clean it up a lot.

Marq

I may have misunderstood your post.

did you ban two posters for posting events threads in the main body, and then subsequently unban them because other posters did the same?

Would it not be better to just ban them all?

DeVore

I'm going to month ban the COMPANY on sight. Ie: company X posts on main forum. They don't get to post anywhere for the rest of the month and that post gets deleted.

That'll fix them.

DeV.

Daithio

I hate all this sub forum crap. I don't think the volume of posts was that big or annoying before the sub forums were created, and as it is now I am always missing tourney announcements etc because they're not posted up in the main forum. Banning people is a bid ridiculous too, as KP said it's all getting a bit '1970's Romania' lol. Seriously though, I think the forum was much better the way it was before hand. Is it that much more difficult for the mods having to check all of the posts in one forum rather then having them compartmentalised off like they are at the minute?

RoundTower

Marq wrote:

ban them all

I agree, they'll learn soon enough. There's no one we can't live without for a whole week.

Putting your post in the main forum so it gets maximum exposure and then putting "you can move this if you like" shouldn't be a way round the rules.

Daithio

RoundTower wrote:

I agree, they'll learn soon enough. There's no one we can't live without for a whole week.

Putting your post in the main forum so it gets maximum exposure and then putting "you can move this if you like" shouldn't be a way round the rules.

Don't we want tourney announcements to get maximum exposure???

staringelf

Daithio wrote:

I hate all this sub forum crap. I don't think the volume of posts was that big or annoying before the sub forums were created, and as it is now I am always missing tourney announcements etc because they're not posted up in the main forum. Banning people is a bid ridiculous too, as KP said it's all getting a bit '1970's Romania' lol. Seriously though, I think the forum was much better the way it was before hand. Is it that much more difficult for the mods having to check all of the posts in one forum rather then having them compartmentalised off like they are at the minute?

i agree totally with this. one forum for poker. if the thread is popular it gets replys and stays at the top of the forum. unpopular and it moves down the forum other pages where it belongs. easy. all you need to moderate then is abusive language and whatnot. if its a tournament advertisement and you don't want to read it don't click on it. a big fuss being made over nothing imo.

ocallagh

You'll never stop the crap from coming into the main forum. there will always be a new poster, or a lazy poster who makes a mistake.

It's a grey area as to what exactly IS allowed in the main forum. I'm not sure what is allowed and I'm a regular poster. Do you really expect a new poster with one quick question (especially a poker player) to read the rules of a forum prior to posting...??

I disagree with keeping everything in one forum. A tournament announcement could just as easily get lost in the 3rd page of posts on a busy day..

SO... Why not make the main poker forum a general chat area, and create sub-forums for the decent stuff... ?

kpnuts

staringelf wrote:

i agree totally with this. one forum for poker. if the thread is popular it gets replys and stays at the top of the forum. unpopular and it moves down the forum other pages where it belongs. easy. all you need to moderate then is abusive language and whatnot. if its a tournament advertisement and you don't want to read it don't click on it. a big fuss being made over nothing imo.

As you can gather from my Romania quote LOL, I too am in favour of a more free and easy approach regarding moderation etc. Perhaps looking at the separate events thread daily is a habit I will ultimately get into, but recently it is only the baddies' (i.e. rule-breakers') tourney announcements I've seen on time. For example, I missed the first Fitz 500 tourney (only found out about it when someone put up a HH from it on the main forum the day after) and a couple of others, because Fitz spokespersons know the rules LOL.

I know I'm not the most regular poster here, but I have read the forum pretty much every day since discovering it early last year and the shared info regarding upcoming events has always been one of my favourite features here. I know there have to be rules on any forum, but I would certainly favour a more softly-softly attitude in what I would still view as a period of transition. If threads get responses in main forum, maybe let them stay there as well as being moved to events specific forum?

I am certainly opposed to the banning of tournament organisers/cardroom representatives unless they are being sanctioned for doing something genuinely underhand/misleading etc. The more input from them on this and related fora the better, IMO

Ste05

Daithio wrote:

Don't we want tourney announcements to get maximum exposure???

If people want to hear about tourney announcements, then they have a whole sub-forum for them. If people are not interested than they don't have to wade through all the adverts.

I agree with banning the company from posting for a month. They'll soon learn...

Ste05

kpnuts wrote:

I know there have to be rules on any forum, but I would certainly favour a more softly-softly attitude in what I would still view as a period of transition. If threads get responses in main forum, maybe let them stay there as well as being moved to events specific forum?

This transition period has already occurred. I think it's time to either get rid of the sub-forum or enforce the rules.

mewso

What you don't seem to understand is that it's not just companys doing this. It's ordinary posters asking how you going in the 10k on ABC poker site etc. Often they make an honest mistake. roryc posted something about Irish Open qualifiers on the main forum then deleted it. Should he be banned?
Also the forum is full imo of very regular posters needling other posters because of some unkown issue they have and an awful lot of threads are full of this crap because we just can't resist that snidey, sarcastic response that shows how clever we are.
This forum is so beginner unfriendly now to be practically useless for them. If any of the poker luminaries here take umbrage at some first time posters innocent question they can get murdered by sarcastic and downright unhelpful posts and the mods are the ones that get the feedback on this. It's only going to get worse.

ocallagh

musician wrote:

What you don't seem to understand is that it's not just companys doing this. It's ordinary posters asking how you going in the 10k on ABC poker site etc. Often they make an honest mistake. roryc posted something about Irish Open qualifiers on the main forum then deleted it. Should he be banned?
Also the forum is full imo of very regular posters needling other posters because of some unkown issue they have and an awful lot of threads are full of this crap because we just can't resist that snidey, sarcastic response that shows how clever we are.
This forum is so beginner unfriendly now to be practically useless for them. If any of the poker luminaries here take umbrage at some first time posters innocent question they can get murdered by sarcastic and downright unhelpful posts and the mods are the ones that get the feedback on this. It's only going to get worse.

mods, could someone move this to the moaning/bad beat section please?:)

Daithio

musician wrote:

What you don't seem to understand is that it's not just companys doing this. It's ordinary posters asking how you going in the 10k on ABC poker site etc. Often they make an honest mistake. roryc posted something about Irish Open qualifiers on the main forum then deleted it. Should he be banned?
Also the forum is full imo of very regular posters needling other posters because of some unkown issue they have and an awful lot of threads are full of this crap because we just can't resist that snidey, sarcastic response that shows how clever we are.
This forum is so beginner unfriendly now to be practically useless for them. If any of the poker luminaries here take umbrage at some first time posters innocent question they can get murdered by sarcastic and downright unhelpful posts and the mods are the ones that get the feedback on this. It's only going to get worse.

Some of the best threads are the ones regarding how people are doing in a particular online tourney. Are these against the rules too? So what do I do if I'm playing in a tourney and want to talk about it to other people, go to one of the sub forums and post it there? This is all fine and dandy apart from the fact that there won't be anyone viewing the sub forum for me to talk about it with!!

BigDragon

musician wrote:

If any of the poker luminaries here take umbrage at some first time posters innocent question they can get murdered by sarcastic and downright unhelpful posts and the mods are the ones that get the feedback on this. It's only going to get worse.

Guilty as charged. Once. Still regret it.

As for the answer to posts and placing...I dont have the answer. Boards.ie is just so big now that 1 forum is not enough but it's where I spend my time.

mewso

Daithio wrote:

Some of the best threads are the ones regarding how people are doing in a particular online tourney. Are these against the rules too? So what do I do if I'm playing in a tourney and want to talk about it to other people, go to one of the sub forums and post it there? This is all fine and dandy apart from the fact that there won't be anyone viewing the sub forum for me to talk about it with!!

This has come up so often. I think anyone who has an interest will see your post and will reply to it. I keep an eye on both forums as I'm sure alot of others do. Maybe I'm wrong but with the latest post in the sub-forum highlighted at the top of the main forum's page you shouldn't miss much.

mewso

BigDragon wrote:

Guilty as charged. Once. Still regret it.

It's a fine line and no matter what we do some discretion is required. I think the sarcastic clever replys are great in threads involving regulars who know what to expect, adds to the fun (see Nialls post above). I only worry about newcomers and how they might react to it.

Daithio

I'm just going by personal experience, but the posts in the other forums don't seem to be nearly as active as the ones in the main forum. I accept that it's hard work for you guys, and I suppose there needs to be sub forums for certain things, but I think that so many types of posts are officially supposed to be in the sub forums that there's not much left for the main forum!

ditpoker

Daithio wrote:

I hate all this sub forum crap. I don't think the volume of posts was that big or annoying before the sub forums were created, and as it is now I am always missing tourney announcements etc because they're not posted up in the main forum. Banning people is a bid ridiculous too, as KP said it's all getting a bit '1970's Romania' lol. Seriously though, I think the forum was much better the way it was before hand. Is it that much more difficult for the mods having to check all of the posts in one forum rather then having them compartmentalised off like they are at the minute?

i totally agree. bring back the good old days (of about 2-3 weeks ago!) I'm a big believer of the 'if you dont want to read it, dont click it' theory! and it is a very fine line.... for example.

1. if someone wants to know how to best structure a tournament- general discussion or tournament sub forum?
2. if oscar wants to know a few ideas for his sunday game- general discussion or sub forum?
3. VegasNights want to know how best to attract a younger market to their tournaments- general discussion or sub forum?
4. Culchie needs ideas as to how to market a VBP tournament- general discussion or sub forum?

one forum for all..

EDIT: just gone to the sub forum and i see ChipLdr was banned for asking a reasonable question about the prize structure of the 100k on ladbrokes. he put it in the main forum, it was not an advert, it was not discussion more about the absurdity of the prize structure. he was offering a healthy subject for debate (which is surely one function of this forum) and he gets banned!!! RIDICULOUS!!! surely the banning option should be reserved for when someone does a TexasNights on it and tries to bullsh*t thier way to free advertising... how can you justify banning someone for using this forum for the purpose it was set up for. WORST CASE SCENARIO should have been a "hey ChipLdr, i'm gonna move this to the tournament forum as i believe it;d be more appropriate there"... the rule of the iron fist here, eh? maybe its just me but someone owes chipldr and apology! /end rant

RoundTower

I got it all in with AA preflop and he hit a straight, what should I have done different? Main forum or subforum?

Ste05

RoundTower wrote:

I got it all in with AA preflop and he hit a straight, what should I have done different? Main forum or subforum?

Obviously main forum. But just don't post in the thread if it bothers you. Some of the regulars might take time out to answer the newbie's question.

Just my opinion.

cardshark202

The worst thing you can do is ban someone then unban them straight away. They'll never learn. Even if its an honest mistake just ban them for being stupid. You park a car on a double yellow by 'accident'. Tell this to the traffic warden.

a-k-47

power to the people

peeko

Is it possible to have a Latest Forum Posts area? Like the one on the main boards.ie page? That would only have topics from the Poker Forums and Sub Forums? It would give the sub-forums a little bit more exposure...

ollyk1

The difficulties with this board arise from some of the unique characteristics of the Board.

1. A lot of people on boards know each other in real life, but newbies don't generally, hence some of the "wit" on boards can seem especially harsh.

2. Poker is a game where people prey on newbies and losers, and asking those same people to be nice to these newbies on a somewhat anonymous internet forum where 100% of their poker playing time is spent dedicating themselves to learning ways to take money from these people is like trying to get people to unlearn how to walk. It's always behind people thoughts and whether they post it or just think its always there, lets be honest. I mean I'm generally nice to newbies (especially if I'm at their table), old people and sick animals but if I see a chance I'll rob your blind no matter what.

2. There is a very wide range of skill levels and different topics people find interesting. High/low level internet play. Home game/casino. Cash/tournies. Genuine hand discussion/thinly veiled give me a hug thread.

3. Poker is full of whiney f**kers who love a good moan and especially love it when people listen or they can have a good whinge to a large number of people. They hate not having people listen to their story and the net is perfect for them.

4. Good honest above board businesses and rob you blind and come back for your walking stick businesses all need to advertise their games and on first contact with a business pimping on boards it can be hard to tell where they lie on the spectrum. So sometimes people challenge them (myself included) in not so friendly ways. Why? Because we've seen a lot of bad ones and their wasn't alwasy such strong moderation of this board so people are used to having to do it themselves on this board. Is this bad? On one level it's not because more info comes out or people can learn more about a setup and judge for themselves. On the otherhand it might be intimidating for some people who aren't expecting a cross examination. My answer to that is its the internet not the UN and life is not fair.

So whats the answer in general??

In my very humble opinion the setup of boards will never really work anymore and if you could get everybody to move to a dedicated poker forum (like antesup) where all the different sub forums exist and can be added as demand dictates then you'd have a very good solution. THey even provide blogs for those who like reports and want to read and write them (which I love btw). Trying to put your finger in the dike Muso is only going to give you brain damage and stress and isn't going to work.

I posted 3 months ago saying antesup should do tournie updates by forum instead of reports becasue its more enjoyable for the audience to interact etc. and in fairness Tom put up a robust defence of the reportage antesup were trying as something different and uniquely Irish.

But he moved with the times and tried a uniquely Irish forum updates and its been a big improvement and lead to a lot of good things coming on Antesup. Boards will just have to realise while what we have is good we need to evolve this forum and move and change too. Thats what growing pains are all about.

The question is purely one of habit and laziness on behalf of us all but i think over the next few months people will begin to seriously migrate across to a bigger and more diverse forum and when that happens this issue will begin to resolve itself.

Ste05

ollyk1 wrote:

The question is purely one of habit and laziness on behalf of us all but i think over the next few months people will begin to seriously migrate across to a bigger and more diverse forum and when that happens this issue will begin to resolve itself.

Nice post, I wholeheartedly agree with this...

MrPillowTalk

Daithio wrote:

Some of the best threads are the ones regarding how people are doing in a particular online tourney. Are these against the rules too? So what do I do if I'm playing in a tourney and want to talk about it to other people, go to one of the sub forums and post it there? This is all fine and dandy apart from the fact that there won't be anyone viewing the sub forum for me to talk about it with!!

Agree completely with this.

As far as being beginner unfreindly, I dont think so at all I think most of the regular posters are helpful to newbies.

Also if someone is being rude/sarcastic to new posters surely this is an offence worth banning people more so than someone looking to inform about a tourney etc. Id rather see the arrogant posters gone than anyone else

RoundTower

Excellent post Ollie especially about the "characteristics of the Board".

I try to be nice to new posters, but I have a low tolerance for idiots, and the great thing about poker is it attracts a lot of idiots.

ditpoker

MrPillowTalk wrote:

Also if someone is being rude/sarcastic to new posters surely this is an offence worth banning people more so than someone looking to inform about a tourney etc. Id rather see the arrogant posters gone than anyone else

VERY TRUE!!!

5starpool

I look regularly in the sub forum too so it doesnt particularly bother me if that stays or not, but I would be in favour of having it all in one place generally. Random threads didn't upset me personally.

Having things in loads of places though such as Antesup, would bother me. Too many sub fora there for my liking, even though I occasionally have a look through them to see if there is anything of interest.

Marq

First off, I think that if someone writes "feel free to move/delete" then they have already acknowledged that they are in the wrong and have done that thing that they know to be wrong anyway. They should be banned because by their own admittance they should have known better.

Equally I feel no sympathy for tournament organisers who advertise their tournaments in the main body - they are getting free advertising for their tournaments from Boards.ie, reaching a couple of hundred people in their direct target audience - the least that they should be expected to do is post in the correct place. IMO instant bannings are necessary if they break the rules.

I think that the situation becomes murky when you have genuine questions about tournies from people who aren't advertising. I feel that the mods should use their discretion to decide whether or not these posts should stay in the main body, and feel that's it's certainly not a bannable offence.

Daithio and others - You know that there exists a sub-forum where organisers advertise their tournaments. It's only a click away. there are quite a few posters who feel that tournament advertisement is a bit like spam that we have to sift through (there's enough shít to sift through on this forum) and having a seperate sub-forum for them is great.

It would be fantastic if everyone moved to the antesup fora, but I doubt it will happen. Disband this forum, and instead put in a link to antesupboards. that'll shift them.


I also think that unbanning people because others have made the same mistake is a bit like reducing the crime-rate by legalising murder.

roryc

Marq wrote:

First off, I think that if someone writes "feel free to move/delete" then they have already acknowledged that they are in the wrong and have done that thing that they know to be wrong anyway. They should be banned because by their own admittance they should have known better.

If it means keeping to the rules then I'll see ya all next week. My own fault for trying to post and play poker at the same time. I should have paid more attention to what forum I was in. Thought I was in the sub-forum. Is there no way you can delete a full thread if no-one else has posted in it? Save the hassle for the mods.

Lafortezza

My own personal preference would be to have a zero tolerance approach. Keep to the rules, don't insult anyone and there'll be no problems. Use your common sense before you click that "Post Thread" button. It may sound heavy handed but it'd work imho. Apart from spammers I've only ever banned about 3 people from the Poker forum. There's a few I'd like to ban for being a bit dim but I was never allowed to
At least with a zero tolerance approach there would be no room for discussion or warnings or Fight the Power. You break the rules, you sit out your week, or you can take it to the feedback forum.

I agree with the points Marq made, especially regarding tournament advertisers. All of these promoters/advertisers/users get a hell of alot more out of this forum than they give back, PPP, Pokerevents, etc etc. The amount of new accounts and bodies in tournament seats they get as a direct result of this forum is huge. All we ask is that they post up their information in a certain way that suits the punter who wants complete information. If GJP and Electric Mouse can do it then why shouldn't everybody.

The difficulty with this sub-forum is that Boards.ie in general hates people coming on and trying to advertise their goods/services/sites/whatever. Anywhere else on this website if you try to advertise something in an appropriate forum you get banned. The poker forum is a little different since poker players want and need to know where upcoming tournaments are being held and how they're organised. The whole thing needs a bit of effort from both parties to run smoothly.

I think the tournament sub-forum is working really well since it was created. It can be a bit tricky to know where to post certain topics (main forum vs. tourney forum) but the fact that the advertising is in a seperate area to the main body of posts only encourages decent discussion in the main forum.


Think about those people whose posts you enjoy reading on this forum, the people who aren't assholes, the ones who never post up drivel, the ones who post up interesting strategies. Copy them a bit.
I'll post more later when I've got some caffeine in my system.

fixer

subdivision of content is good. Imagine if every topic on boards.ie were in one forum? we all know that would be unusable, and are used to the idea of dividing content into manageable topics. Poker as a topic has gotten too big to be manageable, we need this subdividing.

Out yourself in the shoes of a new user who is working on their Omaha game. They come to the poker forum and most likely see nothing about Omaha. They may try using the search function, but the results are far from stellar.

The more subforums, the longer life some of these less active topics will have. Just like sorting and storing your email into folders.

loosecannon

I can't actually get over some of the things that have been posted on this thread

I've been actively reading this forum for about 4 months and not only do I enjoy browsing it regularly, i think it is making a gradual and constant improvement in my poker skills. I can't think of a single thread that has annoyed me in any way, even someone who is blatantly advertising their tourney doesn't bother me at all, i just click on it once, and then move on, not the end of the world. The Moderator's do a good job from keeping the spam on the main forum but it seems to me like some of them may be getting a bit of a power trip from this whole banning business, to ban anyone asides from Blatant Spammer's is completely absurd, they may not come back (and no-one wants to see a decrease in the traffic coming through the forum)

I have no problem with the Bad Beat Sticky and Tourney Announcement Sticky as seem to work well, that is all i have to say on that, they were a good idea and are functioning well, but to ban someone for posting something in the wrong place is insane.

With regards to the long term future of the boards poker forum and for those who think it's life span is limited due to it's format i think they are incorrect. The thing that is so appealing to me about this forum is that you don't have all these stupidly specific sub-sections (ie PL omaha-hi lo, Limit SH Cash Holdem) like on the 2+2 forum. On the few occasions i have tried to browse that forum i found it completely useless. I much prefer to log on to here a couple of times a day, browse through the half dozen latest post's and reply to anything that i feel strongly about

I also enjoy the thread's about a certain tourney, ie PStars $1million or PPP $50k as i like to see how people are getting on in them and maybe log on and watch their final table

I hope that the Mod's realise that the majority of people like to get a rounded feel of what is going on in Irish Poker in addition to some good poker theory discussion's etc. I also hope that the forum is kept as easy to approach as is possible and people don't feel scared when making a post, be it on any topic.

fixer

loosecannon wrote:

I hope that the Mod's realise that the majority of people like ...

I always laugh when people come into discussion forums and claim to know what a majority of people like/think/want/...

azzeretti

Have a plebiscite then. And stick to the result. End of.

Marq

Nah. People are stupid. Just do what I want.

Samba

EDIT: surely the banning option should be reserved for when someone does a TexasNights on it and tries to bullsh*t thier way to free advertising... how can you justify banning someone for using this forum for the purpose it was set up for.

Ahem. I am no longer working directly with TN, what I will say is this and I would advise you read it carefully before ignorantly making such remarks.

1. I asked permission for this thread to be posted. IN BOTH FORUMS (in fact Muso moved the thread from the main section, where Dev suggested it be posted...conflicting mods that's besides the point.

2. It's intent was not for advertising purposes but for genuine feedback to give directly to the owner. It's quite clear that advetising anything related to them is futile as their reputation has been so severly tarnished here.

3. Persumption and assumption are the MOTHER of all **** ups.

4. The treads purpose was a success, it was duley shown to the owner who was a bit taken back, it was food for though and he now realises that there are many issues which ne needs to address.

5. Have a little think next time before you come on posting snide and ignorant remarks in future.


.


Back on topic - Is there really enough traffic in the Tournaments sub section to justify it?

There is a facility to view today's threads, I would prefer one main forum. I believe there was one day where it really did get messy, with so many new threads created.

Other than that, the forum was fine for me...

5starpool

Samba, I may be mistaken, but I believe the TN post above was probably in relation to the one from months ago when a 'poster' tried to defend them posing as a 'customer' while actually being a TN person.

I would be surprised if it was a reference to your recent (and apparantly shortlived) involvement with TN.

mewso

loosecannon wrote:

The Moderator's do a good job from keeping the spam on the main forum but it seems to me like some of them may be getting a bit of a power trip from this whole banning business

My power trip is out of control. I unbanned people and posted here for your feedback. I'd better sort myself out and release the hounds.

shaydy

Personally i think this is all a bit OTT. I agree with Daithio and KP on this one.

I enjoy reading all posts and personally have no problem with the odd 'boast' hitting the main forum or any thread where people are playing late and seeing whos out there or who's in the same touney etc.

Again, if the thread is of no interest it will simply filter down and off the page.

Just my two cents.
Shay

Marq

loosecannon for mod!

Samba

5starpool wrote:

Samba, I may be mistaken, but I believe the TN post above was probably in relation to the one from months ago when a 'poster' tried to defend them posing as a 'customer' while actually being a TN person.

I would be surprised if it was a reference to your recent (and apparantly shortlived) involvement with TN.

I hope it was not, all persons from those previous posts were banned.

Anyway DIT if it was, read my post, if it was not, ignore my post and I do apologise.

The fact that you mentioned these people "should be banned" implying they were not, led me to believe it that this was in relation to me.. again i'm presuming, we all know what my take on persumptions are