Getting rid of NTL!

Reyman

Just looking for some advice. Excuse if I'm asking silly questions!

I'm thinking of replacing NTL with a Free to air satellite dish mainly to stop landing out cash to NTL but also to maybe get more choice of channels.

Has anyone worked out the economics of this ? How much to get set up in total ? versus paying NTL E200 or so a year for a pretty basic service? I understand I'll only lose Ch4?


I'm in south dublin in a bungalow without very good clearance. What elevation does the dish need to be at? and approximately what bearing direction?

watty

It points upward around 22 degrees.
It points South west.

Not far off where the sun is around 11.30 am this time of year.

There is even a way to get Ch4 and Five.

See
http://bytelive.com/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=Free+To+Air+on+Sky for a list of channels

A complete system can be a one off under 200 Euro
With an 80cm Dish and a motor (100 Euro more) you can get about 20 different satellites, more English Language TV & Radio also POP, Sport and about 80 languages for the student

Many International stations have interesting part time english programs or english subtitles.

Reyman

11.30am for direction sounds like it might be south east?

watty

yes

bk

I assume you have NTL analogue:

If you go FTV then you will lose E4, Sky One, Paramount Comedy, Discovery, MTV and Setanta.

If you go FTA then you will also lose C4 as well as the above listed.

You also won't get the new Irish channel C6 which launches later this month.

Of course you will gain some new channels, BBC 3, 4, News, and the two BBC kids channels, ITV 2, 3, 4, Men and Motors and I assume the new ITV kids channels. You will need to use an aerial to get the Irish channels.

BTW FYI just an extra €5 a month will get you 60 NTL digital channels and an extra €10 will get you 120 channels.

Pal

NTL basic
€19.99 Monthly
RTE 1 RTE 2 TV3 TG4
BBC1 BBC2 UTV CH4
Sky One Sky News
MTV Nickelodeon CNBC
Discovery Channel E4
Setanta Sports
Paramount Comedy

SKY Freesat (with a UK card)
€0 Monthly
BBC1 BBC2 BBC3 BBC4 all regions
ITV1 ITV2 ITV3 ITV4 all regions
CH4 FIVE
SKY3
Men & Motors Playboy One
Reality TV Real Estate TV Travel Performance
True Movies Horror Movies4Men Actionmax
ClassicFMTV Vault B4 Chart ShowTV
Sky News BBC News Euronews Fox News CNN
CBBC CBeebies Pop Tiny Pop
Golf Wrestling Sport Nation Extreme Sports
plus quite a few more but these are the main oneshere's the full list http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/satellite/freesatepg/


Economically Sky is much better value.
one off cost is covered within a year.
cards and equipment is easily available on ebay and elsewhere.

bk

Pal wrote:

Economically Sky is much better value.
one off cost is covered within a year.
cards and equipment is easily available on ebay and elsewhere.

Well first you mean FTA/FTV, not Sky, which you have to pay for.

Second, what is better value depends on your tastes. Personally I only ever watch Top Gear on BBC and F1 on ITV, I never watch any other BBC/ITV for anything else. Most of the TV I watch is on C4, E4, Sky One, Paramount and Discovery. I find BBC and ITV to be aimed at a much older, more conservative market, I suppose I fit into the male 15 - 35 demographic that is unfortunately only really served by pay tv at the moment.

So "better value" depends on your tastes. Just FYI.

watty

Personally I think Variety mix pack and Knowledge Mix pack + free channels at 21.50 Euro better value than Chorus Digital MMDS, which is only alternative here.

As BK says it depends a bit on taste. IMO if you want BB and Pay TV the best deal is to have NTL digital for Phone, BB and Basic Digital TV Package AND all the FTA Digital Satellite as well, possibly with a PC based or standalone direct satellite tuner PVR too.

I watch Discovery but hardly ever C4, E4, Paramount, Sky or RTE. But then maybe I'm older than BK

The kids ONLY watch Due South, DVDs and Discovery etc (Age 14 to 25).

Blaster99

Let's not bring in NTL analogue into this discussion. That's an abomination of a service and can't compare with any digital service. The picture quality is just rubbish and it can't do widescreen properly. I have NTL analogue in the bedroom and it's annoying me so much that I just ordered NTL digital for a TV I never really watch.

I think Sky offers more flexible packages, better picture quality (in my opinion at least), better equipment, access to free stations that NTL implicitly charge for, and promise of stuff like HD that NTL will probably talk about for five years before doing anything about it. The stuff I watch would be covered by two Sky mixes and I wouldn't mind a Sky+ box. When my NTL sub is up, I'll look at all the options. I stupidly didn't consider Sky Digital when I signed up with NTL Digital.

I incidently have FTV in my holiday home and it's a great little service for something that's free. It covers about 90% of my TV viewing I'd say.

bk

For multi room viewing NTL Digital works out cheaper, €5 per month for a mirror sub compared to €15 from Sky. Of course depending on your tastes, a FTA/FTV box might be enough for a second room.

BTW For those interested in BB, NTL are now offering 6m/512k for €40, nice.

positron

watty wrote:

A complete system can be a one off under 200 Euro
With an 80cm Dish and a motor (100 Euro more) you can get about 20 different satellites, more English Language TV & Radio also POP, Sport and about 80 languages for the student

Giving it a second thought now, is this a good deal?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/C-TECK-2-x-CAM-SLOT-MOTOR-DISH-LNB-SYSTEM-PATCHED_W0QQitemZ5879528852QQcategoryZ96970QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

C-TECK 2 x CAM SLOT MOTOR,DISH,LNB,SYSTEM (PATCHED) for approx £150.

Reyman

Thanks all for your help! Very interesting .

Seems to be no case in favour of NTL. How come they're still in business?

Blaster99

NTL charges another €2.something for the multi-room option, for the useless crappy analogue service. You might be right about NTL being cheaper but we'll see where they're both at with PVR's, HD, and multi-room when I'm shopping around next time around.

What's the story with a second NTL digibox? Is that actually locked to my other box or can I use it somewhere else? This is just a hypothetical question, by the way.

Blaster99

Reyman wrote:

Thanks all for your help! Very interesting .

Seems to be no case in favour of NTL. How come they're still in business?

It really boggles my mind that so many people are happy to pay €20 for the analogue service when that buys you a heap of nice digital stations with Sky.

Zaphod

positron wrote:

Giving it a second thought now, is this a good deal?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/C-TECK-2-x-CAM-SLOT-MOTOR-DISH-LNB-SYSTEM-PATCHED_W0QQitemZ5879528852QQcategoryZ96970QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

C-TECK 2 x CAM SLOT MOTOR,DISH,LNB,SYSTEM (PATCHED) for approx £150.

It seems good value, depending on the delivery charges.

watty

bk wrote:

For multi room viewing NTL Digital works out cheaper, €5 per month for a mirror sub compared to €15 from Sky. Of course depending on your tastes, a FTA/FTV box might be enough for a second room.

BTW For those interested in BB, NTL are now offering 6m/512k for €40, nice.

For a bundles BB, Digital TV & phone if you can get is an want it no arguement NTL better.

I'm out side cable area so use Digiweb Metro for phone and 3M/512k BB.

One Sky Digital sub (22 Euro) frequently cancelled
one or two other non-Sub Sky boxes.
FTA motorised Digital (20 Satellites)
4 Way Diseqc (19E, 13E, Sky/28E, 23.5E all FTA) on PC with direct reception to disk recording Like Sky+ but with 17 Euro PER YEAR EPG from Digiguide / Gypsy media.

In reality really most people only need one (or none) subscription, and FTA other rooms. My setup allows any satellite receiver to be viewed by RF in any room.

If I did have NTL cable PAY TV, i'd simply have another permenant FTA Digibox.

Reyman

Im not so well up on this. How can I get digital TV when I have an analogue TV?

Do I have to get D-A set top conversion box as well as the other Satellite bits and pieces?

To serve a second room can I just use a splitter in the living room? Or do I need equipment up at the dish with two separate coax outputs one to each room?

watty

All digital Satellite receivers, digital terrestrial recivers and Digital cable receivers only give analog output. You only need a "digital" TV for HDTV or a PC (VGA, DVI or HDMI connectors). Ordinary Digital (not High Definition) is only analog output to a TV or Monitor.

You can split the RF out (like RF out of a VHS), though not all boxes have an RF out. The RF is your TV aerial signal plus which ever channel you are watching (Just like RF on a VHS is either the recording or playback).

A multiple output LNB on the dish is required to feed more than one receiver if you want to watch two DIFFERENT channels at the same time.

I have BOTH systems, the RF out and IN of my VHS and my Digital receivers (set top boxes or Digital decoders if you like) are "daisy chained" and set to different channels (Aeria to RF in, RFOut to RF in of next box etc) and feed a 4 way distribution ordinary TV amp. A couple of outlets are split elsewhere with Y -splitters giving 6 TVs fed.

The LNB for Sky reception feeds a PC (satellite TV card fitted) and 3 Sky Digiboxes (A Quad LNB). Three other single LNBs also feed the PC. The PC has an external automatic 4-way Diseqc switch to select one of 4 satellites (depending on LNB).

A separate FTA non-Sky Digital receiver has a motor and can get about 20 satellites on its 80cm dish. One of those is the 28E with all the Free "Sky" BBC/ITV channels.

So in summary:
* You can have one receiver and feed any number ordinary TVs. They all get the same whatever channel is selected on the satellite tuner/receiver.
* The Best TV should be fed direct with an RGB SCART cable if possible for Stereo and clearer picture (the rectangular 21 pin socket on back of most TVs).
* You can add multiple receivers each on any channel, but each needs its own LNB and dish, or a Multiple output LNB (i.e. QUAD = 4 for 1, 2, 3 or4 receivers). Then each TV can watch a different channel
* Multiple separate LNBs on the SAME dish by laws of reflection will point to different places thus each will pickup a different satellite.

* You can combine TV aerial, VHS, MMDS, Cable TV etc too by "daisy chain" the RF in and RF out on each box and setting each box's RF modulator to a different channel. In my house 1, 2, 3 and 4 on all the TVs are the TV aerial channels, 5 is PC playback or satellite receiver, 6 is Kitchen Digibox, 7 is an Analog Satellite receiver (5W French TV) 8 is Living room Digibox, 9 is S-VHS playback or the FTA motorised Receiver.

The main TV has only one SCART that works for RGB so I have a 4 way SCART switch box for DVD, VHS, Sky Digibox and FTA Digital.

The Kitchen TV has a 2nd DVD player often used for Audio CDs or MP3 CDs on the TV SCART.

There are plenty of options.

If your TV has no SCART (only small or old TVS) then You only use Sky Digibox RF or make sure you buy a Strong or other slightly more expensive Satellite receiver with RF out. The cheapest Digital Receivers have no RF out.


Approximately every 2 degrees across the sky has a different satellite, though not all can be recived here.

Reyman

Thanks Watty - that's some post.

You really know what you're about. Need to take it all in now.

bk

Blaster99 wrote:

NTL charges another €2.something for the multi-room option, for the useless crappy analogue service. You might be right about NTL being cheaper but we'll see where they're both at with PVR's, HD, and multi-room when I'm shopping around next time around.

That is only if you get NTL to install the point, it is very easy to do it yourself. Also it is pretty easy to get them to stop this charge, just call them and complain about it (or threaten to cancel) and they will stop that charge.

LGI definitely will be rolling out PVR's and HD over the next 12 months in other countries, don't know about Ireland.

They are actually looking to use a sweet three tuner (record three channels while watching recorded show) PVR with HD and DOCSIS 2 in the Netherlands this Summer with other countries to follow.

Blaster99 wrote:

What's the story with a second NTL digibox? Is that actually locked to my other box or can I use it somewhere else? This is just a hypothetical question, by the way.

It doesn't seem to be locked to anywhere, you can take it anywhere that digital works, but that is probably against the contract t&c's and there is no guarantee that it will work for ever like that.

Blaster99 wrote:

It really boggles my mind that so many people are happy to pay €20 for the analogue service when that buys you a heap of nice digital stations with Sky.

Well the analogue channels are a more balanced line up. Depending on your tastes, many people couldn't live without some of the channels on NTL.

You can pipe the NTL into as many rooms as you like, this is very popular in rental houses and amongst students.

Most people just don't know that FTA exists.

Many people don't like/can't afford the upfront cost of a FTA setup.

Many mothers don't like "an ugly dish on my house".

And most likely, some people just can't get sat because they live in apartment, rented house or it is in the contract that you can't put up aerials/sat. This is a particularly big problem in Dublin.