Newbie - advice needed

hallelujajordan

ok . .i am looking for a new digital camera . . For the past few years I've had a small point and click digital (sony DSC-p51) but recently I've been using it more and more and I'm ready to get a bit more serious. . my budget is around 700-800 and my question is, should i be looking at a fixed lens model like a FujiS9500 or an SLR like the Nikon D50 ? ?

Will the SLR be more future proof ?

Advice appreciated ??

Dimy

I think you'll have more fun with the SLR in the longer run. You can buy new lenses as your interest is growing and you're pictures will just get better. With a fixed lens you've got nowhere to go one you've reached the limitations of the camera and want something more.

leinsterman

hallelujajordan wrote:

ok . .i am looking for a new digital camera . . For the past few years I've had a small point and click digital (sony DSC-p51) but recently I've been using it more and more and I'm ready to get a bit more serious. . my budget is around 700-800 and my question is, should i be looking at a fixed lens model like a FujiS9500 or an SLR like the Nikon D50 ? ?

Will the SLR be more future proof ?

Advice appreciated ??

Firstly ... If you are considering a digital SLR then forget about being future proof ... DSLR bodies will advance and prices will drop considerably over the next few years .... so chances are the body will be out of date soon enough ... but this should not stop you from buying.

Lenses, on the other hand, do not advance at the same rate (so long as they are not APS-C 1.6 FOVCF EF-S DSLR type, i.e. designed for DSLR's with a smaller sensor which multiplies the lens by 1,6) ... so there is less to worry about here ... though not altogether ...

The question you want to ask is for what do you want to use the camera ?

If you like to be creative or you view photography as a hobby then an entry level DSLR is the way to go ... it will give you more creative options and you can expand your system with new lenses and other accessories as you go ... if you are smart enough with your money, then you can offset the problem of obsolescense ... somewhat!! ...

In may case I went for the Canon EOS 20d with a sigma 18-125mm lens ... as my first DSLR ... having used film SLR's for years ... at the time I was thinking it would do it all, and would last a while ... I don't regert this decision because the 20d is a cracking camera but ... while the body is still pretty up to date, the lens is not up to scratch for my use pattern and never really was (Sigma make great lenses ... but not this one) ... meaning I have just had to fork out for more lenses, mostly to expand my creative options...

so my advice ...

If buying a DSLR don't spend too much on the body. Get a good lens... it will last longer than the body. I remember getting this advice in this very forum over 1.5 years ago and ignoring it ... I should have listened to it ... although I still maintain that the 20d is a good option for me more because I use the camera in harsh environments ... I have no regrets ... but a better decision at the time was probably the 300d and a better lens ...

Canon is a bit ahead of Nikon in digital (despite whatever the Nikonian and Canon religious fanatics might say) so I recommend you to look at the 350d which is available online with basic lens for around €750 (try B&H photo or Ac-foto.com) ...

Oh ... and under no circumstances should you buy a camera in Ireland ... over priced ... thanks to the suppliers rather than the shops !!!:mad:

hallelujajordan

leinsterman wrote:

Canon is a bit ahead of Nikon in digital (despite whatever the Nikonian and Canon religious fanatics might say) so I recommend you to look at the 350d which is available online with basic lens for around €750 (try B&H photo or Ac-foto.com) ...

Thanks for the advice !

How great is the difference between the Canon 350D and the Nikon D50 . . Was just checking out B&H (thanks for the link) and I could get the Canon plus an 18-55 lens for $779 or the Nikon with two lenses (18-55 and 55-200) for about the same money ? Will I notice the difference between 6.1 MP and 8 MP ?

I'm in New York next month so I could head into B&H and save myself some money !

melekalikimaka

hallelujajordan wrote:

Thanks for the advice !

How great is the difference between the Canon 350D and the Nikon D50 . . Was just checking out B&H (thanks for the link) and I could get the Canon plus an 18-55 lens for $779 or the Nikon with two lenses (18-55 and 55-200) for about the same money ? Will I notice the difference between 6.1 MP and 8 MP ?

I'm in New York next month so I could head into B&H and save myself some money !

the difference isnt noticeable unless your blowing up your pictures hugely, 6.1 is more than enough for a4 printss, even a bit more

i have a d50 and couldnt be happier with it, your gonna be told either the canon or the nikon, in the end, they're both brilliant, tho if you do opt for the canon i think the battery grip makes it alot more comfortable from what people say. the lens with the nikon are top notch and the savings you get by buying them in kit form are quite large

Fenster

I'd say the Canon 350d will probably get more votes here on the grounds that nearly every other person on this board seems to own one!

unklerosco

Then again u could always go the fixed lens route.. I got myself a Sony R1 n i love it, had a 300D last year and i much much prefare the sony..
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscr1/

leinsterman

hallelujajordan wrote:

Thanks for the advice !

How great is the difference between the Canon 350D and the Nikon D50 . . Was just checking out B&H (thanks for the link) and I could get the Canon plus an 18-55 lens for $779 or the Nikon with two lenses (18-55 and 55-200) for about the same money ? Will I notice the difference between 6.1 MP and 8 MP ?

I'm in New York next month so I could head into B&H and save myself some money !

To be honest ... I'd say you probably won't notice all that much difference between these two cameras ... they are both excellent from what I hear...

With regard to megapixels, some experts say that you need to be printing bigger pictures to notice higher resoultion ... personally I don't agree with this ... if shooting RAW (and you will, more than likely) ... then a higher resolution CCD records more information assuming the electronics and more importanly optics around it are fundamentally sound. With Digtal you tend to crop pictures more ... so this is where higher resolution offers a big advantage.

It is an oversimplification to relate mega pixels to picture size ... At A4 print size, an 8.2MP will produce a better image than 6MPixel every time, if all other considerations are the same (i.e. optics, electronics, printer etc)... The problem is the EOS 350d and D50 are not the same, so it is too subjective to try to compare on MP alone. It will boil down to personal preference in the end taking into account - pictures produced (each camera will have different charachter), lens used, features, functionality, price, package deal, handling, ease of use etc ...

One fundamental rule you need to consider - If the information is not there in the first place you can't create it in photoshop. Much of the art of digital photography happens in the post processing phase ... so the more information you can record in the image file the better ... this is why for me more MP and RAW are better.

If you go for Nikon or Canon now you will probably stay with this manufacturer for later upgrades of the body (e.g. so you can re-use lenses) ... what ever you do you won't regret it. Apparently Canon currently lead the digital battle by a good margin (whereas Nikon is undisputed leader in film) ... but who is to say how long this will last.

You will probably find that the stock lenses sold with the kits for both Nikon and Canon will soon become unsatisfactory and need upgrading ... they tend to be slow and often inferior optics ... offering less options than even some of their non SLR peers ...

If you opt for Canon then get the 50mm F1.8 @ $75 (effectively an 80mm on a 1.6FOVCF) ... this will never need upgrade, it is amazing glass for the price. I can't say much about any Nikon ... having never used it. Try em both an decide for yourself ...

One final point - B&H are great, I recommend from presonal experience... but they close on Jewish holidays including every Saturday ... an alternative is abes of maine out in Brooklyn ... this is where I got my 20d. They are pretty good too ... ask for Charles...

hallelujajordan

leinsterman wrote:

If you opt for Canon then get the 50mm F1.8 @ $75 (effectively an 80mm on a 1.6FOVCF) ... this will never need upgrade, it is amazing glass for the price. I can't say much about any Nikon ... having never used it. Try em both an decide for yourself ...

Thanks again . . am going to try both out and see which 'feels' better . . Quick question re: the lens above, where can I buy this . . I was looking at the lenses on B&H and the cheapest was around the $150 mark . . Is this the stock 18-55 lens that comes with the Canon ? ?

Cheers !

leinsterman

hallelujajordan wrote:

Thanks again . . am going to try both out and see which 'feels' better . . Quick question re: the lens above, where can I buy this . . I was looking at the lenses on B&H and the cheapest was around the $150 mark . . Is this the stock 18-55 lens that comes with the Canon ? ?

Cheers !

No ... this is a fixed focal length lens (on the 350d it is equivalent to an 80mm)... but it gives amazing results. At F1.8 is it quite fast so while it will not do as a walk around lens it is great for indoor work and portraits.... and at €75 plus 8.7% state tax you may as well go for it ... this is the link -

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=12142&is=USA&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

I don't really know much about the stock 18-55 lens on the 350d (also the 20d) ... I went for a sigma lens instead ... B&H and Abes will do package deals with other lenses ... so ask the guys in the shop ... if you get the right assistent they will steer you in the correct direction ... you may want to consider the Sigma 18-125mm ... it is a good starter walk around ... although in my case I find it a bit soft (at the wide end) and not fast enough for some of the things I need to do ... so I have recently upgraded to 2 lenses (from Sigma's higher grade EX range - 12-24mm wide and 24-70mm F2.4). The Sigma it is good value nonetheless... it all depends on how you plan to use the camera.

There is a Sigma lens kit for DSLR which includes - 18-55mm and 55-200 .. cost is €249 but you should be able to get a bundle deal with the 350d... especially from Abe's ... the guys at B&H are more "take it or leave it" ...

The panacea of lenses for Canon is the Canon L range ... but these are mad money. Sigma and Tamron make acceptable (and sometimes better) alternatives ... for far less money.

Bear in mind the stock 18-55 is effectively a 29-88 because of the size on the Sensor (CCD) ... being smaller than a piece of 35mm film ... this is called field of view crop factor or FOVCF ... this effectively multiples the focal length of all lenses attached to the camera by 1.6. The same is true of the Nikon. From a creative standpont 18-55 is quite limited ... it is just about wide angle, goes across the eye focal length at 50mm and it not at all telephoto ... you may want to consider something like the Canon 17-85 IS for a little more money ...and with an image stabiliser meaning you can shoot a lower speeds without having to worry about shake...

One final thing to note on Canon lenses ... EF-S ... the S means it will only fit digital FOVCF 1.6 bodies ... probably not an issue for you but if you ever upgrade to a full frame camera later on you will need new lenses ... if you are buying entry level lenses then don't worry about this ...

hallelujajordan

Any thoughts on the Olympus E500 . . Similar price to the Nikon D50 with a two lens package but with 8MP . . . ? ?

Steffano2002

Fenster wrote:

I'd say the Canon 350d will probably get more votes here on the grounds that nearly every other person on this board seems to own one!

Well I've got a D50 so I'm going to say:"Get a D50! They're great and cheaper than Canon!"

I really love mine! And I got my Manfrotto 055 Pro B tripo the other day too! I look so pro! Now I just have to learn the art of photography...

Dimy

hallelujajordan wrote:

Any thoughts on the Olympus E500 . . Similar price to the Nikon D50 with a two lens package but with 8MP . . . ? ?

I'm not gonna say that's a bad camera, because I don't think it is. But Canon and Nikon are simply the better cameras out there on the dSLR market. If you get a dSLR I wouldn't go for anything else but Nikon or Canon.

leinsterman

Dimy wrote:

I'm not gonna say that's a bad camera, because I don't think it is. But Canon and Nikon are simply the better cameras out there on the dSLR market. If you get a dSLR I wouldn't go for anything else but Nikon or Canon.

I would agree with this too ... but the April edition of practical photography has a head to head review of the 350d v Sony DSC-R1 (not an SLR) ... the 350d comes up trumps with a best buy award ... one negative is handling due to "some fiddly" controls on the 350d ... but on the plus size you get speed, image quality, write times, cost ... closing comment to the article is -

".... for the time being, at least, it seems that the DSLR, in this case the Canon EOS 350d, remains at the top of the digital camera family tree"

I'd say if you look around you will probably find a mag head to head with the 350d and D50 ... I remember seeing one somewhere ... the 350d came out top by a hair thanks to the lower price of the D50 ...

Practical photography has a review of the D50 in Aug 05 edition ... gets 4 stars ... due to noise at higher ISO and poor S/W bundle ... better handling though ... The 350d is in the May 05 ... gets 5 starts & best buy award ... let down by handling but better on features / performance / quality ...

In the end you will not make a bad choice between the 350d or D50 ... but remember ... you are chosing a religion ... not just a camera ... you are likely to stay loyal to the brand you buy ...

hallelujajordan

So . . after reading the fantastic advice on here plus some general internet research, I had pretty much made up my mind that the 350D was the one for me . . I figured the last thing I needed to do was take a look at it in the flesh before I parted with my hard-earned . .

I went down to Dixons in Liffey Valley and had a good play with it but for some reason it just didn't feel right . . It felt like either my hands were too big or the camera was too small and my index finger just didn't sit right on the shutter release . . The Nikon D50 on the other hand felt greater . . chunkier, more comfortable and the menu system seemed much more intuitive . .

So now I have to decide ! Do I go for the Canon that seems to be universally recognised as the best entry level DSLR or the second best which just seems to feel much much nicer . .

My head is wrecked !

joolsveer

As someone who is biased (I have a 350D) I would go with the Nikon if it feels better. I wouldn't think of it as settling for second best either!

melekalikimaka

second best is a matter of opinion, take a few pics with each, some shops lend you the camera first, dont take others words for it, its personal tase in the end

leinsterman

hallelujajordan wrote:

I went down to Dixons in Liffey Valley and had a good play with it but for some reason it just didn't feel right . . It felt like either my hands were too big or the camera was too small and my index finger just didn't sit right on the shutter release . . The Nikon D50 on the other hand felt greater . . chunkier, more comfortable and the menu system seemed much more intuitive . .

So now I have to decide ! Do I go for the Canon that seems to be universally recognised as the best entry level DSLR or the second best which just seems to feel much much nicer . .

My head is wrecked !

This is like the reviews say ... the 350d has one problem - handling.

... based on your own comments above ... my advice - go with the Nikon D50 ... as a member of the Canon religion this may mean excommunication for me, but you can't beat your instincts for telling you what is the right thing to do ... like I said before whatever you do you can't make a wrong move here both the D50 and 350D are wonderful for the money...

I have the 20D and this is just amazing in every aspect - features, handling, quality, durability etc. ... I probably should have gone for the 350d or 300d at my level (I'd call it advanced beginner ... if there is such a thing :rolleyes: ) but I wanted Canon since my film SLR is Canon EOS ... and handling and durability were big issues for me ... so spending more money to get a better all around package in the 20d was a no brianer ... the 20d has proven itself to be highly durable in the field since ... so I have no regrets ...

I hate to cause you more confusion but I understand the 20d is being replaced by the 30d ... so you may get a good deal on one if you look around in New York or online in Germany ... I would say the 20d knocks the hell out of both the 350d and D50 ... but it is over $1000 for body and lens ... can't help myself here ... want to make a Canon convert

hallelujajordan

OK . . Decision made, I'm definitely going to go with the Nikon !

Any advice on lenses . . should i go with the kit lens can I get a better quality lens for the same money ?

Also, I notice there is a Nikon 50mm F1.8 similar in price to the Canon . . Is it of similar quality / recommendation . . ???

eas

I notice there is a Nikon 50mm F1.8 similar in price to the Canon . . Is it of similar quality / recommendation

Come on hallelujajordan, if your going to buy a Nikon you'd better get the attitude, right? It's Nikon..of course it's better!!

only joking - The Nikon 50MM 1.8 is a classic and you'll sleep with it under your pillow...costs a bit more than the Canon tho...:(

good luck with the D50.

hallelujajordan

Any thoughts / comments on this lens ? ?

http://www.beachcamera.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=TM28200XRNA

melekalikimaka

i'd recommend the two lens kit, its a good saving and they're both top lens, maybe then the 50mm 1.8 and a basic tripod, i don't think tamron are the greatest when it comes to quality. with those 3 lens your covered for pretty much most things(unless your going down the macro road)

steve04

I'm also interested in making the first step into the DSLR route. I've been researching prices and have noticed recently that the prices on amazon are very keen, as good as found on ac-foto, e.g. €780 for 350D 18 - 55mm Lens Kit (incl. delivery)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007R6CHQ/o/qid=1142960206/sr=2-1/ref=sr_bt_1/202-8286637-6672646

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0009U5VQO/qid=1142960186/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-8286637-6672646


Anyone got any thoughts or bad experiences on this?

dubwhite

I got my 350D with the Canon 18-55mm & 55-200mm kit, along with a 2GB SanDisk (Extreme III) card for €1,027 including VAT + delivery.

Should have it in my hands tomorrow, all going well. Any issues, I'll let ye know.

As other folks have mentioned before, their credit card identity checks are a bit draconian, so it can take a while to get your stuff. I've had to phone them a few times, but I found them helpful and willing to speak English no problem. If you order from them and experience and problems, just drop an email to gerold at digiwowo dot net and he'll sort it out.