In regards to this "chi" stuff..

dlofnep

Quillo was quick to point out earlier that because I don't use chi, I'm limiting myself. Can someone explain to me exactly what chi is. Is it scientifically proven. What are the benefits? What can I do with this?

MaxBax

chi to me means fighting spirit, self discipline, trying your best all the time. never giving up. going for it 100% and if you don't get it, trying again.

dlofnep

How do I obtain this chi? I see people often talking about channeling it in martial arts and what not?

MaxBax

sometimes, you either got it or you ain't got it. you can get it through experience and rubbing shoulders with people that secrete it through their charisma. I think I caught chi off a girl in spain, i'll wear a condom next time.

Quillo

Chi, as in Chi Kung, Tai Chi etc, is a nature energy flowing through all living things. It understanding and manipulation is central to Chinese traditional medicine. Systems like Dim Mak also look to manipulate it, but do so to stun, disable or kill.

Ki, as in Aikido, Aiki Jujutsu etc is a similar energy-based concept. You only have to read the accounts of the life of O-Sensei Ueshiba to see that understanding such energy has relevance to the martial arts.

Channeling ki or chi appears to require years of physical and mental training.

FiannaGym.com

Chi is the life force or energy that flows through the body. It is what accupuncture / pressure maipulates for better health. A notion of Chi is found in virtually all cultures around the world.

Chi is the Cantonese term and is usually associted with "hard" chi kung. Which is the stuff you see shaolin monks doing when they smash rocks of theselves and stuff. Some people refer to it as the bioelectrical universe.

I have odne some soft Chi Kung in the past with some strange results.

I would be healthily sceptical about things like this, however I did have the pleaseure of travelling to China with 2 dudes who went to train Chi Kung. Had I known what I know now I would have to. I got to whack one of them full force in the chest with a meat cleever!
They both could smash rocks over their heads and one could bend a spear with his throught.

When we see shaolin monks doing it they put on a show of breathing which is part of the training they do. In reality as these guys showed me its always there. I was talking ot one of them about this at dinner and he goes "I mean look at this" and proceeded to point his chop sticks into his larynx then hit the far end forcing them into his larynx, but instead they just broke. There was no trickery involved. It was animal. He now runs next generation MMA gym in Liverpool.

So I think thats animal. The body protective stuff is called Iron bell or golden bell and its deadly. Apparently De Yang and other monks can do the equivalent of Iron Face. I dont know anything else about that.

All in all its incredibly interesting.

Peace

dlofnep

Chi is the life force or energy that flows through the body.

Is there any proof to this? I've seen those monks, they can perform amazing feats - I don't know if chi is the reason however that they do.

Quillo

dlofnep wrote:

Is there any proof to this?

Depends what you mean by proof !

Have at look a http://skepdic.com/chikung.html

loz

FiannaGym.com wrote:

I got to whack one of them full force in the chest with a meat cleever!

So Chi Kung is the ultimate knife defence art ?

dlofnep

Quillo wrote:

Depends what you mean by proof !

Have at look a http://skepdic.com/chikung.html

Scientific proof. Something that hads been validated by science to be true.

Quillo

dlofnep wrote:

Scientific proof. Something that hads been validated by science to be true.

As far as I know, western empirical scientific investigation has yet to prove the existence of chi/ki.

However, I don't believe it has offered an alternative explanation for the observed phenomena either.

Earthhorse

To the best of my knowledge there is no scientific evidence to support the concept of Chi.

However, if you are truly interested in learning more about it, I might suggest that you put aside the need for scientific validation whilst attempting to do so. I know this will sound like I'm trying to wriggle out of the question but it might be possible for you to experience Chi without ever having its existence proven to you.

Take, for a second, the concept of courage. I'm sure you've experienced (perhaps many!) moments of courage in your life. There is no scientific test, or measurement, of courage and yet you accept that it exists. You've felt it yourself, heard descriptions of it and its a concept that you're familiar with because your culture has a word for it.

Chi is, admittedly, a little different, in that anything claiming to be energy should be subject to measurement but I still think you're going to have to without this before going further.

The only way I know of cultivating Chi is through breathing exercises. The best way to learn these exercises is to attend a reputable Kung Fu (internal Kung Fu) or Tai Chi class.

I hope you don't think I'm trying to duck your question - the analagy with courage is a little clumsy and not meant to map perfectly. But if you are waiting for science to prove the existence of Chi before deciding to learn more about it I've a feeling you'll be left waiting.

Boru.

A quick two cents, as an acupunture student I can tell you that Qi or Ki has been scientifically proven - to an extent. Several studies were done buy the University of Maryland and that of California, they had various controls, double blinds etc. They tested the use of acupuncture needles to stimulate Qi / Ki in specific areas for a specific effect. The studies proved successful.

The BBC recently did a stunning documentary on the subject investigating with a group of scientists the effectiveness of acupuncture and the existence of QI /KI. Featured was one particularly amazing procedure where open heart surgery was performed with no anaethetic just acupunture. The paitent was chatting through the whole procedure and was discharged after 5 days!

At the end of the documenatry and this will be the part that really impresses, they conducted a first of its kind test involving an mri scan to determine if Dou Qi (the sensation of QI/KI being activated by a needle had any notiocable results on the umnman brain) The MRI showed in every case that the area of the brain relating to pain (they were needeling one point specific to pain Li-4) in the deepest part of the human body was turned off!

The test conclusively proved that upon when QI / KI is felt and manipulated it has a direct effect on the human brain - so to an extent we can prove the existence of Qi /Ki.

Regarding martial arts - well that a whole other thing...mind over mater, magnetic transferance, projection of intention etc. For many martial artist who do beleive in it its like asking prove thought exists. Yes we have electrical discharge of the brain - but that's not a thought. We all think allegedly but you can't physically prove the existence of a mental process. Same thing here.

(incidentally thought is a mnaifestation of Qi according tot TCM)

Hope this helps.

FiannaGym.com

I dont go in for all that "scientific proof" mumbo jumbo. Hitting a dude in the chest with a cleaver was enough for me.

Okay so here's another littel story for you. People who know me know I do MMA I dont train any of this stuff. ANyway,

We're over in China and the 2 guys go and train Chi Kung for about 3 hours a day. After 2 weeks the "instrucor" literally gives them an electric shock through his finger. After this they were able to smash rocks over there head. Well actually the put the rock ontop of their head and another dude smashed it with a sledge hammer.

John, you should just investigate this stuff yourself. Its really interesting.

And importantly, this dude is now an MMA instructor. So for all the MMA haters out there, thing about your internal ability, can you do this? or should you being training MMA? hahah

Peace

dlofnep

Interesting story. I'll have a little read later so..

Valmont

Some of you guys have been reading way too much Martial Arts Philosophy.
The true meaning and application of Self defence has been lost on people trying to promote newer,more exciting, more mysterious, more 'deadly' and foreign arts when the answer lies down in the boxing club.

For me, Chi is just being in the zone. Just the day when your are at your peak mentally.

I think that mental strength can be increased and harnessed to be more powerful than us 'Westerners' traditionally believe.

But you won't unlock the secrets doing Chigungpooka****su down the local leisure centre.

Mikel

It sounds like some people try to put anything as yet unexplained in the category labelled "chi" The notion of "the zone" is common in many competitive sports, in fact its the basis of sports psychology.
Anyone who has competed at any level will be firmiliar with those very occasional times when everything clicks into place, and you can't put a foot wrong. There are also days when the opposite happens. There are measurable physiological reasons for that, it does not validate every crank who claims to be able to do outrageous things by manipulating some 'life force'.
In extreme situations the body can do extreme things, isn't that what adrenalin is for? The power of suggestion is also pretty effective with some people.
Fianna, how do you know anything if you don't have some proof of it?

FiannaGym.com

Okay, people who think "Chi" is "fighting spirit" or "being in the zone" are simply confusing their lack understanding of Chi with their understanding of something else.

You guys should do some Chi Kung at some stage and see what that feels like. I dont train it any more but in my Kung Fu days I did. And it rocked. Very different to fighting spirit which I like to think I have now when I train and being in the zone which I like to think I have before I compete.

Peace

t_rom/reaper

to my knoledge chi/ki is just energy of the mind if you have it you can concentrate[i need dis as allot of ye know from my thread lol] in a fight ultimately allowing an unnatural conection between body and mind.....many people meditate to gain chi some just relax and focus on natural movements...others spend hours do tai-chi satnces to help buil this connection

i know this is a bit muddeld up but im to lazt ta edit it

Millionaire

Wow those are amazing stories.

One of my Anthropology Profs in Uni. He had lived in China for 10 years doing his Phd. and he also studied Chinese Medicine and Kung Fu.

I was badgering his for ages about Chi.

One day I was walking by his office and he called me in. and shut the door.
he stood there for about 5 mins, and sort of meditated, then he showed me his forearm, and all the viens were full of blood standing out on his arm. he then did a sort of kung fu chop and his arm was normal. he told me that was an example of Chi.

I would certainly , love to go and do that course in China, Fianna is on about.
just for the knowledge and the experience.

Quillo

Chi/Qi/ki is a lot more than simply an emotional state or a sense of determination. It is an all present energy which, it is said, can be cultivated or channelled to specific purposes.

The Wikipedia definition is quite good in that it shows how difficult it is to define !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi

JohnMc1

good info

Cabelo

A wise old capoeira Mestre once said that there are three levels of playing the game.

Playing in the dark is what happens when someone is new, fumbling their way through movements, not seeing opportunities and not using their dodges properly.

Playing in the water is the level at which players begin to notice more and more about their opponents. Their perception doesn't necessarily mean they play much better though... it's called water because we're often too slow to react.

Playing in the light is what happens when experienced players have a lash at one another. Both predict one anothers movements and are able to dodge and counter attack in time.

I always reckoned these could be applied to anything... it's just that they're quite telling in capoeira.

I've always likened being able to harness and detect Qi/Ki/Chi to misinterpretations of those lads who "play in the light"... non?

Earthhorse

No.

Chi is about energy, not awareness. The state of flow which you, and others, have described is indeed a marverlous and wonderful feeling to experience. But it is nothing akin to the feeling you get from doing Chi Gung breathing exercises.

You'll just have to trust those of us who have experienced both!

Dragan

It's all a frame of mind kids. Some people need breathing excercises, or meditation, or physical this that or the other to be able to acheive whatever it is they think they are looking for.

Others can just do it.

And anyway, is it something your feeling or something you think your feeling.