AA and deep stacks

Hectorjelly

36nl Villain seems tight passive, but thats based on about 10 hands so could be wrong. A few hands ago I raised AQ and he called from the bb. We checked it down and he had KQ, I won unimproved. A few orbits later I raise with AA, again on his BB. He calls. The flop is 348, two clubs. He checks to me and I bet 48. He makes it 180 more! We both have about 1k left.

G-Knome

Tough hand but my initial gut feeling is that he likes this flop alot more than you. Most likely he hit his set from the preflop call and large raise on the flop which may indicate he doesn't like the club draw. But then again laying down aces here is not easy and i doubt you did

Do you have the Ac?

Hectorjelly

G-Knome wrote:

Do you have the Ac?

no

Daithio

My thoughts on this are that he has QQ. The raise on the flop is too big for a set. Maybe he has JJ. Either way it looks like he has one of these hands and didn't want to get too much committed preflop in case an overcard came.

I don't think you can gather too much information from playing with somebody for just 10 hands, so I'd treat it as if he was an unknown.

I really think you're ahead here, so for me the question is how much do you draw out of the pot. I think maybe flat calling is the best option, as there is a chance he may have a big draw, and if it hits on the turn then you can get away from it with position. Otherwise I think he has an overpair that you are beating. So you want to play it safe/ get him to bet more on the turn with his overpair. Flat call, and then re evaluate on the turn.

Gholimoli

a set is not really likely as Dave said the bet is a bit too big for a set trying to protect against flush draw.
flat calling the bet sounds good as it does allow you to loose less if your behind.

fuzzbox

If you are active from the button, then TT+ normally repops preflop.

This hand looks a lot like a big made hand.
But he could also be making a move on a raggedy board - but he has no previous convictions for speeding (checking down the previous hand).

I think I find the muck

NickyOD

Such a huge raise I just can't see a hand you are behind to here. My guess is a flush draw with 2 overcards and he hopes he can take the pot down on the flop, however if you were to take his passive image to the extreme it is very possible he is a bad player who only plays the nuts aggressively and is "protecting" a set against the possible flush. I'm not folding thouigh.

Iago

NickyOD wrote:

My guess is a flush draw with 2 overcards and he hopes he can take the pot down on the flop,

perfect, hopefully yourself or HJ can answer a question for me in this situation.

If that's the case, and assuming the hand is going to be played to the river, is it right to fold here as you are technically behind?

I know that with big stacks you could re-raise and get him to fold or stop and go on the turn if no club lands but what is the right move?

fuzzbox

NickyOD wrote:

Such a huge raise I just can't see a hand you are behind to here. My guess is a flush draw with 2 overcards and he hopes he can take the pot down on the flop, however if you were to take his passive image to the extreme it is very possible he is a bad player who only plays the nuts aggressively and is "protecting" a set against the possible flush. I'm not folding thouigh.

Assuming that HJ raised to 24 preflop, the pot would be 48 on the flop, HJ then bets 48, making the pot 96.

A full pot raise would be (96 + 48 + (96+48) = 288.

180 is far from huge here.

How often would he check/raise with a draw ... but not all-in?

fuzzbox

Gholimoli wrote:

flat calling the bet sounds good as it does allow you to loose less if your behind.

How do you lose less if you are behind?

fuzzbox

Iago wrote:

perfect, hopefully yourself or HJ can answer a question for me in this situation.

If that's the case, and assuming the hand is going to be played to the river, is it right to fold here as you are technically behind?

I know that with big stacks you could re-raise and get him to fold or stop and go on the turn if no club lands but what is the right move?

You have 2 Aces.

The situation you describe has two overcards to the board ... but you have two aces - so if he hits one of them - you still have the best hand.
If that is, indeed, what he has, then you are a big favourite as he only has a flush draw - and he is 2:1 against making his hand.

fuzzbox

You could call and fold to any further turn aggression.

Gholimoli

fuzzbox wrote:

How do you lose less if you are behind?

instead of reraising .
you dont know if your behind.he could have a set ,he could also have a draw/PP .

fuzzbox

Gholimoli wrote:

instead of reraising .
you dont know if your behind.he could have a set ,he could also have a draw/PP .

So you call - and then what? I think you might be forgetting the two remaining streets. The pot would be about 400 or so, with two streets to play and 800 in the remaining stacks.

How do you lose the least by calling him down? You have to call him down for 1k if you decide to continue in the hand.

Gholimoli

fuzzbox wrote:

Reraising sucks.

it dosent such if he has something like TT,JJ,QQ,KK or a flush draw.but it sucks if he has a set.seen as we dont know flat calling allows us to lose less if we are behind .

fuzzbox

Gholimoli wrote:

it dosent such if he has something like TT,JJ,QQ,KK or a flush draw.but it sucks if he has a set.seen as we dont know flat calling allows us to lose less if we are behind .

Wrong

AmarilloFats

fuzzbox wrote:

You could call and fold to any further turn aggression.

I do this this too much. I think it's a pretty bad plan unless you know villain slows down on turn with a wide range...
2 more streets to play when you call this flp raise...

Gholimoli

fuzzbox wrote:

You could call and fold to any further turn aggression.

first you say that if you call your calling for another 1K.
then you say call and fold to any aggression.
so how is this any different?
your not making any sense at all.
in wht post your saying call and fold to any further betting.
in the other your saying if you call there will certainly be further betting, so then why call at all?

fuzzbox

Gholimoli wrote:

first you say that if you call your calling for another 1K.
then you say call and fold to any aggression.
so how is this any different?
your not making any sense at all.
in wht post your saying call and fold to any further betting.
in the other your saying if you call there will certainly be further betting, so then why call at all?

They are two different points.

One is in response to your belief that you can loose less by just calling him down (which is not true).

The other is just a thought.

Gholimoli

fuzzbox wrote:

They are two different points.

One is in response to your belief that you can loose less by just calling him down (which is not true).

The other is just a thought.

so why are you suggesting a call here?whats your reason?

fuzzbox

Gholimoli wrote:

so why are you suggesting a call here?whats your reason?

Well you dont know if you are ahead or not. If you call then he should hate his hand if he has 99 or TT or JJ and will prolly shut down on the turn.

Course - he might push regardless .

Its prolly a crap plan, but you force him to fire a 2nd bullet. So if he was check/raising with air, then he might think twice.

Iago

fuzzbox wrote:

You have 2 Aces.

The situation you describe has two overcards to the board ... but you have two aces - so if he hits one of them - you still have the best hand.
If that is, indeed, what he has, then you are a big favourite as he only has a flush draw - and he is 2:1 against making his hand.

Sorry you're right. What I meant was a different scenario...for example I have Jd Jc on a flop with two hearts and my opponent is holding Ah Qh.

never mind, don't want to derail the thread.

Marq

Iago - if you know that your opponent has two overcards and a flush draw on the flop then in a situation like this it would be wrong to fold. You have perfect information and you both have large amounts of money behind. By folding you give up the pot despite the fact that over half of the time neither an overcard nor a flush card will hit on the turn - and you can make a bet that is incorrect for him to call.

Obviously the situation is different if your opponent is all-in, but usually the pot odds you will be getting at this point mean that you should call as although he is favourite to win, only marginally so, and you are ahead right now.

RoundTower

I agree with call and fold any turn and probably call the river. If he has QQ/JJ he is likely to check the turn and bet for value on the river, but with a set he will have to have another go at it on the turn, because the stacks are so deep.

Hectorjelly

I thought for a while and folded, I thought he had either KK or a set; and I didnt paticularly feel like paying 1k to find out which.