Merc S280 or S320 ('00 Models) ..am I mad

whippet

I am toying with the idea of buying a '00ish S-Class, I just don't know if I am mad or not.

There are obviously loads of Pro's to buying one:

Great Spec, Luxobarge, value for money? etc ...

Apart from high tax and fuel efficency (I won't be doing much mileage) what are the hidden cons in owning one?
Is 20 odd grand too much to spend on a 6-7 year old car?

Anan1

The main con is Mercedes build quality. It started going downhill in 94-95, and by 2000 it was really on the floor. This will show everywhere, from cheap & floppy cabin trim to poor overall reliability. That said, they are a good drive.

unkel

Great car. Do your sums first, are you setting aside enough budget to maintain it and for tyres? When you do low mileage, petrol consumption is not much of an issue. Also if you are mature and have a decent NCB, insurance is not an issue either. Tax is €1343 for any car over 3000cc though

I'd go for an S430 / S500 myself. The V6s are underpowered and don't cost any less than their higher specced V8 brothers

Anan1 wrote:

The main con is Mercedes build quality. It started going downhill in 94-95, and by 2000 it was really on the floor

Nonsense, the S-class is very well built. When it was launched, the motoring press was unanimous in declaring it the best saloon car in the world. Just make sure you buy one in top condition and check if all electrics are working. €20k seems to be ballpark for an early one. Don't pay anywhere near what they are advertised for. It is a buyers market as these yokes are very difficult to sell

Anan1

"Nonsense, the S-class is very well built. When it was launched, the motoring press was unanimous in declaring it the best saloon car in the world"

As I said earlier, the W220 is generally accepted as being a fantastic car to drive. Build quality, however, was universally criticized from the outset. Do a Google, and you'll see. Easier still, just sit in one and look carefully at your surroundings. Don't be afraid to grab bits, see how well screwed-on they feel. Or not.

whippet

would the running costs be much different between a 320CDI and a 430?

with regards to servicing and tyres etc .. ball park what would you be looking at a year for 10K miles?

I have seen reports about poor build quality, how do they rate against a similar era A8 ?

unkel

Anan1 wrote:

Build quality, however, was universally criticized from the outset. Do a Google, and you'll see

All initial problems will have been fixed under warranty. The S-class came out fairly well in the first few years in customer satisfaction surveys too. I think a lot of the recent dent in MBs reputation is caused by unsatisfactory treatment of owners by the main $tealers

Anan1 wrote:

Easier still, just sit in one and look carefully at your surroundings. Don't be afraid to grab bits, see how well screwed-on they feel. Or not.

Have to admit, I've been in two recently and was surprised by the many (small) build quality issues. E.g. loose upholstery, broken vanity mirrors, etc. I didn't start pulling at panels though

I have looked at owner reviews and the results are a bit of a mixed bag. I'm very interested as the W220 S430/S500 is still firmly on my shortlist for my next car

whippet wrote:

would the running costs be much different between a 320CDI and a 430?

The 320CDI is waaaayyyy overpriced second hand. Unless you do a huge mileage (which you don't), you'll never get your money back in fuel or other savings

whippet wrote:

with regards to servicing and tyres etc .. ball park what would you be looking at a year for 10K miles?

Totally depends. Do you do your own maintenance or do you have a good and reasonable mechanic or will you have the car serviced by Mercede$-Ben$?

Tyres depend a lot on your driving style and what kind of roads you tend to drive on. Also on what tyres you will use, i.e. cheap stuff or the original high-end tyres

The general risk in driving high-end saloons is that if something goes seriously arseways, e.g. if the engine goes. A replacement Toyota Corolla engine might set you back €50, but if my BMW V8 goes, the car is an economic write-off :eek:

whippet

cheers for that unkel.

Looking at pricing around and the CDI is very expensive in comparison. although buying the UK and importing legit in to VRT land look like good value also.

It will be my pops that will be doing routine servicing (very handy that) but I am sure he would probably be afraid of trying anything to complicated in a car of that type.

The more I look at what car I want to buy, I keep coming back to the old luxobarges. In a bigger moment of madness i was even looking at 97-98 XJ8's !!

unkel

whippet wrote:

The more I look at what car I want to buy, I keep coming back to the old luxobarges

Careful though, once you own one it's hard to get back to ordinary cars

whippet wrote:

In a bigger moment of madness i was even looking at 97-98 XJ8's !!

No madness there either. That age XJ8s are reliable and well built. Ford has made a remarkable quality turnaround with Jaguar over the last decade or so

About the other logical competitors in a nutshell. Reliability wise, the Lexus LS400/430 is probably on top but it lacks style / driveability. Not sure if the A8 is quite up there with the rest although I like the looks / styling. The 4.2 V8 / S8 are very rare here

Leaves the E38 7-series. Just came across the What Car / JD power 2001 survey and it came 4th overall - never knew that! Excellent car, but I own one so I can't be totally objective

Anan1

Actually, if you want to be able to project running costs with any degree of accuracy then a Lexus is your best option.

unkel

Anan1 wrote:

Actually, if you want to be able to project running costs with any degree of accuracy then a Lexus is your best option.

Funny way of saying it's the least risky option, but I agree with you

Mind, it's not that simplistic. If you buy a Lexus LS400 in perfect condition with 100k miles on it and the next day the cats go, you're gonna have to spend more in one day than I spent in total maintenance over 5 years owning BMW V8 cars

MrPudding

unkel wrote:

Funny way of saying it's the least risky option, but I agree with you

Mind, it's not that simplistic. If you buy a Lexus LS400 in perfect condition with 100k miles on it and the next day the cats go, you're gonna have to spend more in one day than I spent in total maintenance over 5 years owning BMW V8 cars

Typically what age of cars do you go for?

How do you know you are getting a good one? This is something I would be interested in doing but I am just worried I buy a dog.

What kind of money are you talking about to buy and maintain?

MrP

fletch

unkel wrote:

Mind, it's not that simplistic. If you buy a Lexus LS400 in perfect condition with 100k miles on it and the next day the cats go, you're gonna have to spend more in one day than I spent in total maintenance over 5 years owning BMW V8 cars

Surely the exact same could be said for buying a Beemer or any other big executive car?

Anan1

"If you buy a Lexus LS400 in perfect condition with 100k miles on it and the next day the cats go, you're gonna have to spend more in one day than I spent in total maintenance over 5 years owning BMW V8 cars"

As Unkel has said before, that's a risk of buying used luxobarges. The risk can be diminished by buying something like a Lexus, but not eliminated.

elexes

i got to drive a merc over the week for 2 days . cant rember the model numer looked to me like a bmw 3 series compotition i found it very annoying . the ammount i bitched about the bloody hand break wanabe type thing they have jesus it annoyed me to no end

it put me off them

unkel

fletch wrote:

Surely the exact same could be said for buying a Beemer or any other big executive car?

Yep that's my very point. If the cats go, it's gonna cost. I specifically picked cats as an example as they'll go on any of the above at about the same mileage. My reasoning is that I'd expect it will be cheaper overall to maintain the least reliable of the above (bought @100k miles) for 3 years when you know the cats have just been replaced, than to buy the most reliable of the above at same mileage when the cats haven't yet been replaced

MrPudding wrote:

Typically what age of cars do you go for?

Buy at about 7 years, sell at about 10 years

MrPudding wrote:

How do you know you are getting a good one? This is something I would be interested in doing but I am just worried I buy a dog

That's the tricky bit. You are taking a big risk for above reasons. The risk can be much reduced though - in the case of my current car the following gave me confidence:

1. UK car with 75k miles out of 112k miles done in the UK by the first two owners

2. Third owner (company director) imported it. It was owned by the company and serviced by BMW

3. Full BMW service history

4. 18 months NCT left

5. Full checkover by my trusted specialist including, most importantly, reading out the ECU

6. Looked perfect inside and out, ran perfect, drove perfect

7. All electrics worked

8. Research into particular model and engine showed positive results

MrPudding wrote:

What kind of money are you talking about to buy and maintain?

As mentioned before, it totally depends

Maintain: I pay my specialist about €300 for full service including a few consumable parts. BMW would charge the guts of a grand for same

Buy: I payed €11k for the 7 year old BMW 7-series. A same age similar spec Mercedes S-class could easily cost you double that :eek:

Edit: did I mention tax is a killer? Paid online last night. That's a total of €4k since this time two years ago

colm_mcm

I wouldn't rule out a LS400/LS430 just because the Brisish motoring press don't particularly like Japanese cars. At least drive one. Looks are subjective, but it would have to be agreed that build quality is top notch

unkel

colm_mcm wrote:

I wouldn't rule out a LS400/LS430 just because the Brisish motoring press don't particularly like Japanese cars. At least drive one. Looks are subjective, but it would have to be agreed that build quality is top notch

I think we all agree that build quality and reliability of the Lexus beats them all. So does the standard stereo. I once read a second hand review of one with 185k miles on it and the conclusion was it still drove like a new car. Impressive stuff!

If you want a big luxobarge and those things are the most important to you and you don't care much about driving dynamics, don't give a sh!t about styling or driving an up-branded Toyota, than the Lexus is yer only man