Murder suspect dies in Garda custody

Repli

Gardaí have named the murder suspect who died in custody this morning as 24-year-old Dwane Foster, from Woodbank Avenue in the Finglas area of Dublin.

Mr Foster was one of five people arrested in Kildare on Sunday night in connection with the murder of 22-year-old Donna Cleary in the Coolock area of Dublin.

He complained about headaches while in custody yesterday and was seen by a doctor three times.

He was subsequently taken to Beaumont Hospital, but was later brought back to Coolock Garda Station for further questioning.

He then fell ill again this morning and was pronounced dead shortly after being taken back to Beaumont by ambulance at 3am.

The Gardai released a statement then telling people not to jump to conclusions - but in my opinion it's not normal for 24 year olds to just 'die' like that especially after being dismissed by a doctor just hours before. Maybe the Gardai were being a bit heavy handed? Thoughts?

flogen

very unusual; it's hard not to jump to conclusions but of course you have to keep an open mind too...
This is certainly something that will (or at least should) come under a lot of scrutiny.

Hobbes

The guy was in ill health before he was even picked up.

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=3721335&p=37zy35x

Eoin

Hobbes wrote:

The guy was in ill health before he was even picked up.

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=3721335&p=37zy35x

Looks to be the case alright, here's a quote from the RTE news site:

Earlier, it emerged that the 24-year-old had severe health problems. He had been diagnosed with throat cancer and had sustained injuries after falling off a motorbike last year.

I presume that he can't be found guilty posthumously and effectively died an innocent man? (edit: provided he was actually guilty of course)

gent9662

I'd say the rest of the people picked up will probably blame this person for the shooting, thus killing two birds with the one stone to excuse the pun

MrPudding

Maybe maybe not. Is there not an element of guilt by association type thing here? If you are with someone that commits a murder then, unless you tried to stop it, you are guilty too.

MrP

Eoin

dclane wrote:

I'd say the rest of the people picked up will probably blame this person for the shooting, thus killing two birds with the one stone to excuse the pun

Yeah, they have been given an easy option there if no witnesses come forward.

gent9662

I'm sure Beaumont hospital will carry out a full autopsy as to the cause of death, was it a heart attack?

Eoin

MrPudding wrote:

Maybe maybe not. Is there not an element of guilt by association type thing here? If you are with someone that commits a murder then, unless you tried to stop it, you are guilty too.

MrP

There could well be - possibly one for the new legal forum? All total speculation, but they may be now free to say that they had no idea the guy had a gun etc etc.

flogen

dclane wrote:

I'd say the rest of the people picked up will probably blame this person for the shooting, thus killing two birds with the one stone to excuse the pun

I doubt they'd get off the hook that easily, there aren't many people who claim innocence (when they're not) and get away with it.

I'm sure the Legal forum will give better guidance on it, but surely if you know of a murder and didn't do anything to stop it or didn't inform the proper authorities as soon as you could then you wouldn't be treated with too much kindness by Irish law.

The Hummer

The guy died of a brain hemmorage..<mod edit>.
Going by reports in the papers this lad had a string of conviction & at least one warrent out for his arrest. He should not have been on the streets (The Guards Fault)...
The one good thing is that there is one less scumbag on our streets..Its a pity more of these skangers wouldn't take more coke.

flogen

Have you any official statements about evidence of cocaine in his system?

Eoin

The Hummer wrote:

Going by reports in the papers this lad had a string of conviction & at least one warrent out for his arrest. He should not have been on the streets (The Guards Fault)...

Let's be clear - he had a warrant out for driving offences; driving without insurance and damaging two wing mirrors. Hardly the grounds for a Police manhunt. It is not the Guards fault that lady died, it is the guy who pulled the trigger.

The Hummer

I had to produce a licence a a year or so ago...The Guards knocked on my door after the 10 days..If there is a warrent for your arrest you should be arrested....End of story....They are hasseling the wrong people thats the problem.

flogen

Hummer; either produce proof of your cocaine claim, edit your post or I'll do it myself.

This forum is not for rumour or assumptions, while no comment made against the man can be libelous at this point they will not be tolerated.

Eoin

The Hummer wrote:

I had to produce a licence a a year or so ago...The Guards knocked on my door after the 10 days..If there is a warrent for your arrest you should be arrested....End of story....They are hasseling the wrong people thats the problem.

He wasn't at home when they called (reported in the papers), and no-one was saying where he was. If you only knew that he had a warrant for traffic offences, would a big search for him not seem inappropriate?

On the drugs thing, the RTE news said that the Gardai "believed" that he had drugs in his system when he died, and was a known drug user.

The Hummer

The guy died of a brain hemmorage..<mod edit>. Going by reports in the papers this lad had a string of conviction & at least one warrent out for his arrest. He should not have been on the streets (The Guards Fault)...
The one good thing is that there is one less scumbag on our streets..Its a pity more of these skangers wouldn't take more coke.

Read again...Flogen!

flogen

The use of the word Allededly doesn't prove the rumour, it's not a get out clause it just solidifies the fact that you can't prove it or can't show it's anything more than whispers.

Your posts have been edited; do not repeat it unless you can back it up.

Eru

eoin_s wrote:

He wasn't at home when they called (reported in the papers), and no-one was saying where he was. If you only knew that he had a warrant for traffic offences, would a big search for him not seem inappropriate?

On the drugs thing, the RTE news said that the Gardai "believed" that he had drugs in his system when he died, and was a known drug user.

Good post Eoin, also important to remember that it was the courts and not the Gardai that allowed him out on bail. I have lost count of the amount of warrants issued in my cases because the judge believed the guys story over my opinion. Many remain unexecuted because the people leave the country/move and all sorts of reasons.

This guy was effectively in hiding and no one was giving him up so the local gardai just dont have the resources or time to hunt him. Lets not start on the usual track of blaming the Gardai for everything.

Also see this post started with the usual attack on Gardai, how typical. 3 doctors and a solicitor saw him. He was terminally ill and a drug user but no, it was the Gardai!!!!

Blub2k4

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

Good post Eoin, also important to remember that it was the courts and not the Gardai that allowed him out on bail. I have lost count of the amount of warrants issued in my cases because the judge believed the guys story over my opinion. Many remain unexecuted because the people leave the country/move and all sorts of reasons.

This guy was effectively in hiding and no one was giving him up so the local gardai just dont have the resources or time to hunt him. Lets not start on the usual track of blaming the Gardai for everything.

Also see this post started with the usual attack on Gardai, how typical. 3 doctors and a solicitor saw him. He was terminally ill and a drug user but no, it was the Gardai!!!!

It's a topic for a whole other thread but if you are so worried about how your profession is perceived by the public, then do something about it, it's not the publics fault that the police force tolerates so many thick, ignorant abusers of position, the next time you turn a blind eye to a colleagues abuse of his rank or position just remember that is why the guards get slagged, and because you stay quiet about it....

Eoin

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

Good post Eoin, also important to remember that it was the courts and not the Gardai that allowed him out on bail. I have lost count of the amount of warrants issued in my cases because the judge believed the guys story over my opinion. Many remain unexecuted because the people leave the country/move and all sorts of reasons.

This guy was effectively in hiding and no one was giving him up so the local gardai just dont have the resources or time to hunt him. Lets not start on the usual track of blaming the Gardai for everything.

That being said, he was not on bail for a violent crime - they were just traffic offences. I would think it would be seen as quite harsh not to release someone on bail for those changes.

The fact remains that either this guy, or possibly one of his accomplices, pulled the trigger. They are the people who killed Donna Cleary, and no-one else. It is easy to have 20-20 hindsight and say that had he been in jail, he would not have been involved with the killing - but suppose he had been convicted of the traffic offences, the odds are that he would have served time anyway.

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

Also see this post started with the usual attack on Gardai, how typical. 3 doctors and a solicitor saw him. He was terminally ill and a drug user but no, it was the Gardai!!!!

That assumption annoyed me too, and had Flogen not (partially) qualified that assumption, I would have. I was very glad to hear that it was not the Gardai who were to blame.

Having said that, I don't think that the poor state of Foster's health was known to the public until a day or two after his death so I can sort of see why people would jump to conclusions.

Eru

eoin_s wrote:

That being said, he was not on bail for a violent crime - they were just traffic offences. I would think it would be seen as quite harsh not to release someone on bail for those changes.

The fact remains that either this guy, or possibly one of his accomplices, pulled the trigger. They are the people who killed Donna Cleary, and no-one else. It is easy to have 20-20 hindsight and say that had he been in jail, he would not have been involved with the killing - but suppose he had been convicted of the traffic offences, the odds are that he would have served time anyway.

Very true. The sad part is now no one will be convicted of her murder as they will blame him and all take pleas on lesser charges of assisitng him and what not.

eoin_s wrote:

That assumption annoyed me too, and had Flogen not (partially) qualified that assumption, I would have. I was very glad to hear that it was not the Gardai who were to blame.

Having said that, I don't think that the poor state of Foster's health was known to the public until a day or two after his death so I can sort of see why people would jump to conclusions.

Also true but why make that assumption? I can honestly say that beatings in cells are rare (non existent in many stations), maybe in the past it was common but we have to remember the type of people claiming they were beaten and why in gods name would a Garda beat a murder suspect? I aint losing my job and going to jail. What really annoyed me about this assumption was how fast people screamed inquiry and even my own cousin accused the Gardai of murdering him. If I accused her colleagues of such a crime what would the reaction be? (I called her boyfriend a Ballyfermot scumbag purely to make that point and she went nuts:D ), out of the past 3 deaths in custody I am 100% convinced that the Gardai were not the cause.

Eru

The Hummer wrote:

I had to produce a licence a a year or so ago...The Guards knocked on my door after the 10 days..If there is a warrent for your arrest you should be arrested....End of story....They are hasseling the wrong people thats the problem.

Sorry I didnt see that earlier. How was an arrest warrant issued before you were charged or summoned for the offence? 10 days and the guards came with a warrant????

I smell BS!

Eoin

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

Very true. The sad part is now no one will be convicted of her murder as they will blame him and all take pleas on lesser charges of assisitng him and what not.


Also true but why make that assumption? I can honestly say that beatings in cells are rare (non existent in many stations), maybe in the past it was common but we have to remember the type of people claiming they were beaten and why in gods name would a Garda beat a murder suspect? I aint losing my job and going to jail. What really annoyed me about this assumption was how fast people screamed inquiry and even my own cousin accused the Gardai of murdering him. If I accused her colleagues of such a crime what would the reaction be? (I called her boyfriend a Ballyfermot scumbag purely to make that point and she went nuts:D ), out of the past 3 deaths in custody I am 100% convinced that the Gardai were not the cause.

I don't defend the assumption at all, my only point was that Foster's poor health was not generally known when his death was announced, so people weren't likely to assume ill-health as a reason. We are basically arguing the same point anyway

smeggle

Not to particularly keen on the Gardia at the best of times myself after getting stiched up by one a few years back but irrespective in this case it was obvious they were going to get the usual 'Jump to conclusion' slagging.

Blaming them for this guy being on the streets just because a bench warrant was 'Alledgedly' outstanding and thereby there fault that this young lady was tragically shot is a no go in my book.

And a bencj warrant does not automatically mean he should have been in jail, it just means he should have been bought back before the court where considering his ill health he would invariably have been re-released on bail all be it with maybe stronger conditions imposed.

As I said, I don't hold them in much of a favourable light but fairs fair and in no way can they be held accountable for this event.

Thats just the antics of the 'Gutter Journalists/Press' wanting to sell copy - if anyone should be held to account - it's that shower of low life. There worse in my eyes and cause more misery to the victims with there inciteful innuendo and insinuations..

No wonder the Gards do have such a hard time of it..

by feck - never thought I'd see the day where I'd stick up for them anyway but fairs fair like..