M50: Single Point Tolling - Unfair?

BrianD

With the removal of the existing toll booths on the cards and an electronic system to replace it why have the government decided to stick with single point tolling i.e. those who cross the river or use the M50 between two specific junctions must pay. Is this not unfair?

Surely the fair and best option for the management of this piece of infrastructure should have been electronic tolling the entire length of the route meaning that all users pay. The toll could be structured that it discounts if you travel longer distances.

I don't believe that this approach would effect either existing volumes or the strategic objectives of the route. It was built as a national route to bypass Dublin and not as a commuter rat run so the old arguement of forcing traffic into residential areas doesn't apply. It's only property developers who put forward this arguement as they have wrongly used the M50 to justify and sell developments.

The Irish motorist isn't price sensitive and despite the rising tolls over the past years and the lack of free flow on the route has not stopped using it. The prospect of paying a little more for a faster journey, I'm sure would be relished.

Any thoughts?

MrPudding

I thought the new proposal was to have tolls along the entire length? Or at least at four points

MrP

murphaph

So did I MrP. It's the ideal opportunity to introduce multi-point tolling which as BrianD says could be made fairer the more of the road you use with junction hoppers being penalised for clogging up the motorway.

BrianD

It was the original plan to have 4-points but the powers that be seem to have backtracked and are now saying that there will only be one.

murphaph

Have you got a link or something for this Brian? It seems crazy-the toll bridge should actually be free/cheapest by rights as the alternative routes are limited (Lucan and Chapelizod are miles apart and the only other bridges in west Dublin). Then toll all the other junctions at a higher rate but as said, with a discount for more distance travelled.

BrianD

Second last paragraph:

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/7317785?view=Eircomnet

This was in the news recently as the NRA had to change their tendering process to account for the changes in tolling approach.

dr zoidberg

He said the new toll method would be initially a single-point, barrier-free toll which might after 2008 be expanded to a multi-point system.

I don't like the sound of that might. The government look like there doing a U-turn on this and hoping no-one notices. An article in the IT today as well said the Bray Luas was set for completion in 2016 under Transport 21 - bit strange when it's a ten year plan that started last year :rolleyes:. You can't trust a word they say.

ishmael whale

Looks pretty clear here, its a backtrack.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0307/m50.html
Single point toll on M50, says Cullen

07 March 2006 20:01
The Minister for Transport, Martin Cullen, has told the Dáil there is to be a single point barrier-free tolling system on the M50 when the upgrade of the motorway is completed in 2008.

He told Green Party TD Eamon Ryan that there could be no system similar to congestion charges until all the elements of the Dublin transport plan were in place in 2015.

Mr Cullen had earlier suggested that the M50 would move to a multi-point tolling system.

DubTony

Looks like BrianD and I agree on something. Imagine that?

I agree that the M50 should be tolled from end to end to manage traffic and distribute the burden. Here's one I posted earlier

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=50816538&postcount=71

HelterSkelter

I think the days of the M50 being thought of as a by pass of Dublin are long gone. This road has evolved into a necessary route for Dublin commuters. People HAVE to use this road, there are so many housing and industrial estates which have been build up around the road. Where do you think all the cars are going to go if you force them off the M50? You said people would be willing to pay a little more for a faster journey. A little increase will not stop anybody from using this road. It would have to be a massive increase. Do you think people like sitting on this road/car park day after day driving to and from work? They are not there by choice, there is no other alternative.

If the Government are serious about having a bypass of Dublin they need to build a new motorway a lot further out and this time use a minimal number of entry/exit ramps. Either that or block up all the entry/exit points on the M50 so it can only be used to bypass the city!

HelterSkelter

DubTony wrote:

Looks like BrianD and I agree on something. Imagine that?

I agree that the M50 should be tolled from end to end to manage traffic and distribute the burden. Here's one I posted earlier

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=50816538&postcount=71

Tolls will not manage traffic on the M50. People have to use the road and will continue to use it even if they have to pay extra tolls. The only effect will be more money for the Government, it will not stop people using the motorway.

corktina

HelterSkelter wrote:

I think the days of the M50 being thought of as a by pass of Dublin are long gone. This road has evolved into a necessary route for Dublin commuters. People HAVE to use this road, there are so many housing and industrial estates which have been build up around the road. Where do you think all the cars are going to go if you force them off the M50? You said people would be willing to pay a little more for a faster journey. A little increase will not stop anybody from using this road. It would have to be a massive increase. Do you think people like sitting on this road/car park day after day driving to and from work? They are not there by choice, there is no other alternative.

If the Government are serious about having a bypass of Dublin they need to build a new motorway a lot further out and this time use a minimal number of entry/exit ramps. Either that or block up all the entry/exit points on the M50 so it can only be used to bypass the city!

you are quite right....maybe a motorway to replace the N55......from the M7/M9 junction or maybe portlaoise,up to mullingar and then cavan and dundalk...how about that? or a decent N road would do....

BrianD

HelterSkelter wrote:

I think the days of the M50 being thought of as a by pass of Dublin are long gone. This road has evolved into a necessary route for Dublin commuters. People HAVE to use this road, there are so many housing and industrial estates which have been build up around the road. Where do you think all the cars are going to go if you force them off the M50? You said people would be willing to pay a little more for a faster journey. A little increase will not stop anybody from using this road. It would have to be a massive increase. Do you think people like sitting on this road/car park day after day driving to and from work? They are not there by choice, there is no other alternative.

If the Government are serious about having a bypass of Dublin they need to build a new motorway a lot further out and this time use a minimal number of entry/exit ramps. Either that or block up all the entry/exit points on the M50 so it can only be used to bypass the city!

The M50 was never built to take traffic out of housing estates nor to service people commuting around the city! It was built to take non-Dublin bound traffic out of the city.

Tolling the road would manage the resource and I would agree it won't take a lot of traffic of it. In fact it could get busier if a freeflow situation was there. Even if its use as a 'Dublin bypass' is no longer you will find that a lot of "inner city" infrastructure is in fact tolled in other cities. I don't think the use of the M50 is necessary to reach any place in Dublin. Convenient maybe but not necessary.

The problems of the M50 go back to bad planning and government corruption but that's another thread!

Pfungstadter

May be the new Outer ring road should be call the M52 or M50 II since it would follow mostly the N52 sort of:D