Great Timing, Best Quote and Policy Termination

cormie

Friday morning, t'was a cold and frosty morn and my windscreen was white. On goes the kettle, without thinking I poured the boiled water onto my windscreen without cooling it. Yep, the windscreen now has a big crack going halfway down in the middle. My Insurance was up for renewal the very next day. I was waiting on BrittonInsurance to get back to me to take CC details to go ahead with the quote, I was quoted €1014 without windscreen cover TPFT which I was going to go ahead with but I was just in time and put on windscreen cover for an extra €35 or so. This brought the premium to a total of €1069 with a 2% CC levy. I must have got quotes off about 15 different companies and BrittonInsurance were the best. This price was for:

21 yr old male
1.1 1991 Fiesta
2 years NCB
0 Penalty Points
Under 5K annual mileage
Full License
Passed Full Ignition Course (20% off)
Residing in Bray, Co. Wicklow

I was with Tesco for the past year who I got a great quote off but they couldn't compete with BrittonInsurance.com. They said I would have to send my cert and disc back to terminate the policy, which I haven't done. Is this really necessary? I never had to do this with Quinn Direct who I was with for the first year after I moved to Tesco. To be honest, I don't really want to spend 41c on a stamp if I don't have to!:o

Anan1

If I'd just defrauded an insurance company, I'm not sure that I'd go around telling everyone what I'd just done...

Fey!

how did he defraud them?

cormie

I didn't defraud them at all, I paid for windscreen cover, there is a crack in the window, this doesn't affect my vision at all, I'm not going to get it replaced unless it gets worse and I have to. I've just paid an extra €35 or so incase something goes wrong. That's what insurance is, paying for assurance in the event of a mishap. I've paid for it.

Does anyone know if I legally have to return my disc and cert to Tesco?

John R

Only if you are cancelling the policy mid-term. If it has run out then no. I wouldn't return the cert, what if for some reason you had to prove insurance details for a date when that policy was valid?

cormie

Well it ran out on Saturday, I thought it sounded a bit odd. Regarding have proof of a valid policy, I wouldn't need my old disc/cert for this would I? I can recycle it once I get the new ones, right?

Henry Ford III

If you took out additional cover to insure an already broken windscreen, that technically is fraud.

Savman

fraud...jesus

lets not nitpick :rolleyes:

_Kaiser_

cormie wrote:

I was quoted €1014 without windscreen cover TPFT which I was going to go ahead with but I was just in time and put on windscreen cover for an extra €35 or so.

As I read this he was gonna go without the windscreen cover but then decided to include it before the proposal/quote was finalised? All before Friday's incident?

I don't see where allegations of fraud come in so...

Henry Ford III

"Yep, the windscreen now has a big crack going halfway down in the middle. My Insurance was up for renewal the very next day"...

Not the way I read it. If the windscreen cover was in place before the damage it's fine. Otherwise it's not.

It's a black and white issue, not nitpicking.

bennyc

cormie wrote:

I was with Tesco for the past year who I got a great quote off but they couldn't compete with BrittonInsurance.com. They said I would have to send my cert and disc back to terminate the policy, which I haven't done. Is this really necessary? I never had to do this with Quinn Direct who I was with for the first year after I moved to Tesco. To be honest, I don't really want to spend 41c on a stamp if I don't have to!:o

never mind the window as you say when it bothers you get it changed , as for sending back the cert do this as they may charge you untill you do happened to me before I changed insurance as ford gave 1months free ford ins with a new focus about 5 years back, anyway took my time about sending the details back but got calls and letters from a collection agency as they bought my 2 month unpaid ins bill. I suppose the difference here is your cert is out of date

cormie

You know actually, I messed up, I should have just gone and got the windscreen replaced with the insurance that was going to expire the next day, not get cover on the new one in the chance of it getting worse. Too late now:rolleyes: Anyway, you can't say because something is at higher risk of being claimed for, that it's fraud. As I said, I wont be claiming for a little crack, I'm just insuring my higher risk windscreen.

Thanks for the tip about returning the cert, I may as well just send it back so!

Anan1

cormie wrote:

Anyway, you can't say because something is at higher risk of being claimed for, that it's fraud.

Of course you can! Did you told your new insurer that your windscreen had "a big crack going halfway down in the middle" before you insured it with them? If not, then to subsequently claim from them for the replacement of that windscreen is fraud. It's not a grey area, there's no nitpicking, it's just insurance fraud, pure and simple.

tw0nk

cormie wrote:

Does anyone know if I legally have to return my disc and cert to Tesco?

Yup you have to legally return it, I got my new disc the other day and it says it on the back.

cormie

There was no documentation and I wasn't questioned about the condition of my windscreen before going ahead with the policy. I had no intention of fraud either.

Henry Ford III

Just because they didn't specifcally ask you, doesn't mean you didn't have a duty to inform them.

There is a principle in insurance "UBERRIMA FIDES - Perfect good faith; abundant good faith.

This phrase is used to express that a contract must be made in perfect good faith, concealing nothing; as in the case of insurance, the insured must observe the most perfect good faith towards the insurer."

Insuring an already cracked windscreen clearly breaches this principle, and constiutes fraud.

Anan1

cormie wrote:

I had no intention of fraud either.

Actually, you did. You have already told us that you wouldn't have paid extra for windscreen cover until you cracked your screen by pouring hot water on it.

Lord Nikon

cormie wrote:

There was no documentation and I wasn't questioned about the condition of my windscreen before going ahead with the policy.

Don't don't normally ask questions about ones windscreen.

cormie

Henry Ford III wrote:

Insuring an already cracked windscreen clearly breaches this principle, and constiutes fraud.

Do you know this for a fact? Can you find any source anywhere that says that if a windscreen has a crack in it, and insuring it without disclosing this information is in fact fraud?

I'm open to correction here but I don't want to be accused of fraud if there is no actual fraud taking place. Especially since I never intended fraud.

cormie

Anan1 wrote:

Actually, you did. You have already told us that you wouldn't have paid extra for windscreen cover until you cracked your screen by pouring hot water on it.

No, I said I had no intention of fraud. Covering a higher risk windscreen for damage is not fraud in my view.

Anan1

cormie wrote:

No, I said I had no intention of fraud. Covering a higher risk windscreen for damage is not fraud in my view.

Come on, cormie!!! You've already told us that the thing has, in your own words, "a big crack going halfway down in the middle" Are you seriously trying to tell us that insuring a windscreen with a big crack without telling the insurance company is not fraud??

cormie

I've paid about €35 extra for windscreen cover, there is a chance I will need it, there is a chance I wont. This is how insurance works. As I've said, I didn't do this with the intention of fraud.

If I'm linked or quoted documentation that states what I did is in fact fraud, then I stand corrected, however, I never intended to commit fraud and don't accuse me of intending to please. If I did infact commit fraud, then you can accuse me of committing fraud, but please don't accuse me of intending to.

Our man in Havana

John R wrote:

Only if you are cancelling the policy mid-term. If it has run out then no. I wouldn't return the cert, what if for some reason you had to prove insurance details for a date when that policy was valid?

This happened to me where the cops came looking for proof of insurance after I had returned the cert. Took alot of hassle to get proof of cover out of the ins company afterwards.

Henry Ford III

It's not as simple as that.

You should have declared, whether asked or not, the existing crack in your windscreen.

Any prudent insurer, knowing this, would rightly have refused to cover the screen, and you'd have saved €35.

What you have done is wrong. No doubt about it.

Anan1

Why not go the whole hog, buy a crashed car, insure it and have the insurance company repair it for you? Come to think of it, you could buy a burnt down house too? Or how about life insurance for dead people? Tickets for last weeks Lotto?:rolleyes:

cormie

Henry Ford III wrote:

It's not as simple as that.

You should have declared, whether asked or not, the existing crack in your windscreen.

Any prudent insurer, knowing this, would rightly have refused to cover the screen, and you'd have saved €35.

What you have done is wrong. No doubt about it.

Again, these are all educated assumptions, but I am yet to see legal documentation stating that this is in fact true. As I've said, I'm very open to correction and there would be no doubt in my mind that they could be true, they most probably are. Either way, I didn't know I should have declared a crack on my windscreen, so I can pleed ignorance to that:o

Anan1, you're waffling now to be honest. It's nothing like what you are saying, in fact, if you want to relate it to houses, it would be like insuring a house where you will be lighting open fires if the fire guard had a hole in it. There's no point in going down that road. I've said I'm open to correction, I've said I never intended fraud. Can you accept that?

Henry Ford III

Yes Cormie you can plead ignorance (which is no excuse under law btw), but the only way to fix the problem is to go back to your new insurer and tell them the whole truth in writing.

They might:

1/. Cancel the policy for non disclosure and refund you the unused premium.
2/. Refund you the €35 and exclude your windscreen.
3/. Do nothing and say thanks for your honesty.

Either way you'd be legally and morally exonnerated.

Good luck in whatever outcome occurs. I feel, having read your posts that you've made an honest error of judgement.

cormie

Thanks for the criticism, feedback and suggestions:)

Anan1

One more question for you cormie - did you have windscreen cover on the policy that was in force on the Friday morning when you cracked the windscreen?

cormie

I just checked there and yes I did. So I could have got it replaced then with a day to go:( Can I still claim from Tesco?

Henry Ford III

If it was properly covered, then why not?

Anan1

In theory, yes. But - and here's where the irony kicks in - would they believe him when he tells them that the screen cracked while the car was still insured by them?

Our man in Havana

They would be unable to proove otherwise.

cormie

But I don't currently hold a policy with Tesco anymore, so can I still claim even though I no longer hold a policy with them? How would I go about doing this? Also, does claiming for windscreen damage have any negative effects on future policies?

Anan1

In theory, yes, as the damage occurred while you were insured with them. They may, however, have a clause that you have to inform them within a specified period. If they do, and that period is 24 hours, for example, then you have a problem. Why not ring them up straight away and ask?

cormie

Hi,
I just got on to them there. Tesco will cover me for the crack, woohoo. Oh and I told Britton about it being cracked before I went with them and they are refunding the price to me, as yes, it wouldn't have been covered. I have no real proof that it was cracked before moving with Britton, but Tesco said they'll have to go by my word. It wont effect my NCB either!

Anan1

It's been a long road, but we got there in the end!:D

The OP

Henry Ford III wrote:

Just because they didn't specifcally ask you, doesn't mean you didn't have a duty to inform them.

There is a principle in insurance "UBERRIMA FIDES - Perfect good faith; abundant good faith.

This phrase is used to express that a contract must be made in perfect good faith, concealing nothing; as in the case of insurance, the insured must observe the most perfect good faith towards the insurer."

Insuring an already cracked windscreen clearly breaches this principle, and constiutes fraud.

Wow, you really know how to squeeze the fun out of a topic. Go be a prude somewhere else - maybe politics or debating, or some other boring forum that would suit you.

Anan1

The OP wrote:

Wow, you really know how to squeeze the fun out of a topic. Go be a prude somewhere else - maybe politics or debating, or some other boring forum that would suit you.

If you had taken the trouble to read the thread, you would have realized that this was a perfectly relevant post. If you find it boring or prudish(!!), then perhaps you might be happier reading posts in a different forum.

cormie

All posts were relevant except this load of sh1te:

Why not go the whole hog, buy a crashed car, insure it and have the insurance company repair it for you? Come to think of it, you could buy a burnt down house too? Or how about life insurance for dead people? Tickets for last weeks Lotto?:rolleyes:

:D lol

gaffmaster

Cormie,

Make a black and white photocopy of your old insurance disc and then send it back. In fact it might be worth copying your new one too, in case your windscreen falls in and it gets all chopped up by shards of glass!?!!

Anan1

Come on cormie, I deserve the odd laugh as much as anyone else!:D

Henry Ford III

The OP wrote:

Wow, you really know how to squeeze the fun out of a topic. Go be a prude somewhere else - maybe politics or debating, or some other boring forum that would suit you.

Facts are facts.

If this was a comedy forum I could understand your personal attack. It was uncalled for and unwarranted.

Any further negative personal comment on my factually accurate post will be reported to a Mod.