Islam thread a joke

Wolff

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054884765&page=3


Is it me or is this getting a bit silly - every time someone posts anything that doesnt seem to toe the party line they are threatened with a ban.

Its bad enough the poster that posted the nonsense about the saudi government distributing alcohol to westerners wasnt even challenged but when i back up my facts with links Im just threatened again.


Who moderates these moderators

This post would have gotten me banned BTW in the islam forum.

DeVore

Questioning moderators policy has nothing to do with Islam. Hence its off topic and has no place in any forum except the feedback forum. Hence you should get banned if you posted this here.

I think you were being asked to back up your direct assertion that the last king of Saudi was an "alco". Thats exactly the kind of comment I DONT want on the Islam forum.

You seem incapable of making an argument without this kind of inflamatory (and frankly unprovable) comment. Perhaps you should considering just giving the Islam forum a wide berth or cut those sorts of comments out.

DeV.

Wolff

I was actually correcting a false statement made by a previous poster and was instructed to post in this forum by the moderator

I accept the comment about the last king being a bit over the top but fail to see how it was inflamatory. It is common knowledge afterall - ask any muslim

When somebody posts that the Saudi government gives out alcohol to foreigners it kind of makes the saudis look like they might be tolerant etc - but this untrue - i was only correcting this statement which was part of the topic.

I only questioned moderators policy when I was asked to back up my statement - which I did and see that other posters have done the same.

Ah well no matter banned again from the forum for failing to be unflattering in any way shape or form - may I suggest removing the forum completely as it seems incapable of any criticism. Or even facts.

metrovelvet

The Islam forum is a joke. But it will come to a complete standstill under current modship anyway.

There is an an inability to distinguish between critical thought and unflailing ass kissing on the Islam forum.

It would be helpful if mods on the religion forums even read a basic idiot's guide to theology. Because its fairly clear on the Islam forum that they haven't got a clue.

Wolff

I agree

GuanYin

metrovelvet wrote:

It would be helpful if mods on the religion forums even read a basic idiot's guide to theology. Because its fairly clear on the Islam forum that they haven't got a clue.

Or perhaps, Islam, like so many other religions, has broad and deep parameters to the religion owing to the nature of humans and their perspectives.

metrovelvet

Of course it does, and like other religions is made complex with how it interacts with the specific national/cultural/class contexts it modified /is modified by.

Overlooking this basic principal, just as overlooking basic the composits of organised faith; creed, sacrament and doctrine and how they relate to power makes it next to impossible to have a dialogue of any real depth.

So watch and see it die a slow death. Maybe we should broadcast it on the internet?:)

GuanYin

metrovelvet wrote:

So watch and see it die a slow death. Maybe we should broadcast it on the internet?:)

I bet it won't.

Whats the latest fad here with people who don't get their way saying that a forum will die?

Did they appoint some prophets recently and not tell me?

Gordon

Which thread on the Islam forum is the OP talking about?

Hugh Hefner

psi wrote:

Did they appoint some prophets recently and not tell me?

Well, no one wanted to spoil the surprise for you but... well... the second coming is here! And his name is DeJebus!

Gordon

Also known as Mohamdev.

WhiteWashMan

Gordon wrote:

Also known as Mohamdev.

that picture is an insult to islam...

Gazza22

WhiteWashMan wrote:

that picture is an insult to islam...

Portrayal of Muhammad is sacrilegious, that would be his superior, Mohamdev

ai ing

That picture is an insult to all decent photoshoppers everywhere

metrovelvet

psi wrote:

I bet it won't.

Whats the latest fad here with people who don't get their way saying that a forum will die?

Did they appoint some prophets recently and not tell me?

Its not a prophesy. That would imply a future prediction. Get thee back to paranormal with your crystal balls.

The Islam forum is AT PRESENT a ghost town. Maybe when it dies it will haunt paranormal. Hey is it offensive to draw a cartoon of Mohammed's ghost?

I've not made any demands so it's not about get my way. Nor am I banned.

Wolff

Gordon wrote:

Which thread on the Islam forum is the OP talking about?

there is a link in the post - its the why alcohol is fobidden except in Saudi where the government apparently give it out free to us people from the west - possibly explains why a large irish contingent there !

Hobbes

You knew the topic of the thread. While you did back up your claim your comment of "Are you a Saudi by any chance ?" got you a warning and you followed that up with a smartarse comment when told to take it to another thread. I mean ffs did you not learn from your last ban.

Gordon

(Apologies, I am blind, didn't even see the thread)

Wolff

Hobbes wrote:

You knew the topic of the thread. While you did back up your claim your comment of "Are you a Saudi by any chance ?" got you a warning and you followed that up with a smartarse comment when told to take it to another thread. I mean ffs did you not learn from your last ban.

em think youll find the warning coming with the origional post - as in back up what you are saying or ill ban you -

something you didnt do with the other posters outrageous false statement

but hey why let the facts get in the way.

are you sure you are not a saudi ?

Hobbes

Wolff wrote:

are you sure you are not a saudi ?

Which means what exactly?

I will repeat again, You were warned for your comment (which you appear to be trying to use as an insult?), you felt to ignore that warning and you were banned.

You don't really contribute to the forum. You would be better off not coming back.

Wolff

I will repeat once again - I was warned when I posted I would be banned if I didnt back up what I said

I backed up what I said and was banned subsequently

My problem is with being threatened with banning when I posted origionally.

Even though I was correcting a false statement made by a previous poster

Why didnt you ask the previous poster to back up his claim ?

as for the comment - the saudis are not very tolerent and come down hard on anything critical of themselves or islam in general.

I hope this explains it.

If you choose to see it as an insult thats your problem.

and finally the only way it seems to me to contribute to the islam forum is to fawn.

Hobbes

Wolff wrote:

I backed up what I said and was banned subsequently

No. You backed up what you said followed by "Are your a Saudi" comment to infer some kind of insult (or it seems generalisation) at which point you were warned and told to take the topic to the forum rules thread or PM or here. At which point you ignored it and continued to post off topic. Rather then having to put with the crap like before I just banned you.

Go to dontlogin.boards.ie and check if you think otherwise.

Why didnt you ask the previous poster to back up his claim ?

While his opinion was incorrect and you certainly showed that, his comments were not inferring that a particular person was an alco. Generally if your going to make those sort of statements you better be dam sure to back them up.

Wolff

I did back them up -

DeVore

You did not back up your assertion that the King of Saudi was an alco. In fact you yourself accepted that you can't but that asking any muslim will confirm that. A "proof" that is likely not to stand up.

I accept the comment about the last king being a bit over the top but fail to see how it was inflamatory. It is common knowledge afterall - ask any muslim

Do you think that suggesting that our president was a kiddie fiddler because everyone in Ireland knows it and we've a reputation for harbouring them, might offend us?

That fact that you think it ISNT offensive is absurd, if you really do think that the ban is a wake up call. If you can't see that it is then the ban had better stay.

The Islam forum (much like the Paranormal forum) isnt an area for everyone to debate to "prove" things. Its for like minded people to gather and chat.
That doesnt mean that you can't challenge and probe but since its THEIR idea, you are on their turf so to speak.

If you went to the poker forum and challenged them to prove it wasnt gambling you'd be accomodated but might get some narky comments. If thats ALL you ever brought to the forum, you'd find it closed to you pretty quickly.

DeV.

Wolff

ok then the last king of saudi was reputedly an alco - and i have backed it up now so

also I challanged a false and inaccurate statement - something that does not seem to be allowed without a ban being threatened which was the origionally my gripe

on their turf implies the mod should be muslim no ?

metrovelvet

Hobbes wrote:

You knew the topic of the thread. While you did back up your claim your comment of "Are you a Saudi by any chance ?" got you a warning and you followed that up with a smartarse comment when told to take it to another thread. I mean ffs did you not learn from your last ban.

Except that what you quote is a queestion not a claim. Just as I asked if Qadri considered himself a moderate and you found that offensive.

How do you back up a question?

Please note: its fear which hypersensitizes. You're hearing bumps in floor boards and getting out out of bed to fight the burglars.

Hobbes

metrovelvet wrote:

I asked if Qadri considered himself a moderate and you found that offensive.

I didn't find it offensive, I found it offtopic for the thread and you were making the assertion that he wasn't a moderate based on his post yet despite numerous times asked to say why, you didn't reply. To quote your exact words "I do not find what Quadri posted to reflect what I consider to be moderate."

Add to that you seem not to be able to comprehend to just send him a private message if you really wanted to know.

Wolff

metro already knows where i stand on private messages !

woody

The Islam forum from what I have seen it a very PC forum and mod's don't want to insult the supposed muslim posters and the pro muslim followers from what I have seen you cannot express and opinion there as it is a minor facist regime, yet people can insult christianity,judaism, Israel a lot and everyone agree's.

I have stood back from that part of boards on the grounds that I would simply loose the head with the pure tripe that comes out of some posters and it is tantamount to incitment of hatred against any Infidel so they say.

The best policy is not to get involved as I am now doing and sticking to the non-contenious parts of boards like FS Shopping

Hobbes

woody wrote:

yet people can insult christianity,judaism, Israel a lot and everyone agree's.

If you find something offensive then report it. Please feel free to point out posts now if you like on exactly what you have said.

I'm putting that in bold for you as an action item. Because I can tell you now that stuff does get reported and removed and people get banned for other anti-related issues not related to muslims. In fact it is in the charter. I should also point out that while it may look like I read every single post, I don't.

Generally other religons only come into it as a comparison to show pretty much no religon holds the moral highground overall (cue Wibbs for the rebuttal ).

Even so as pointed out before the religon forums are more or less the same. For example try posting in Christianity forum about how all Priests are kiddy fiddlers and see how long you last before you get banned. Or post in the Paranormal forum about how they are all imagining it (granted they aren't a religon. ).

The forum isn't for people of that faith to have to defend themselves from attack. If you have a legtimate question then feel free to post it but some tagged on comments to some of the questions already infer that those people are in the forum to just stir the ****.

Lastly I just want to add that when you report a post it is not just me who sees the report. Admins +Smods get flagged to check it. So if you do report something questionable and I have openly ignored or allowed it to go on then the admins/smods will quite happily override the moderation.

Wolff

DeVore wrote:

Do you think that suggesting that our president was a kiddie fiddler because everyone in Ireland knows it and we've a reputation for harbouring them, might offend us?

That fact that you think it ISNT offensive is absurd, if you really do think that the ban is a wake up call. If you can't see that it is then the ban had better stay.

DeV.

funny you should mention kiddie fiddlers in relation to the islam forum but thats another debate entirely and one area I would defo get a ban for

How is it offensive to say someone had a drink problem when they would categorically deny drinking in the first place - i think thats called hipocracy thats the point I was making - btw even if our president was a kiddie fiddler he/ she was still democratically elected - same cant be said for the Saudis.

Wibbs

Hobbes wrote:

(cue Wibbs for the rebuttal

I'm delighted to find myself invited to speak on this subject ..... rant rant rant.....

metrovelvet

Hobbes wrote:

I didn't find it offensive, I found it offtopic for the thread and you were making the assertion that he wasn't a moderate based on his post yet despite numerous times asked to say why, you didn't reply. To quote your exact words "I do not find what Quadri posted to reflect what I consider to be moderate."

Add to that you seem not to be able to comprehend to just send him a private message if you really wanted to know.

Hobbes a question is not the same as an assiertion. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

I want to to tell us publically how he perceives himself thats why.

As Devore said, the forum isnt about proving things so I dont know what you are on Wibbs back about proving the saudi king is a dipso.

Hobbes

I want to to tell us publically how he perceives himself thats why.

No. You claimed his comments were not moderate, you were asked numerous times why and in what way and totally ignored the question as you do now. Rather then trying to attack the post you were trying to attack the poster.

Similar to Wolffs comments about the Saudi king. It is not to have a go at the person but to infer some kind of problem with Muslims and Islam as a whole.

Look tbh I have a personal rule of not banning people for thier comments outside of the forum but I am willing to make an exception for you two if it makes you feel any better. Or do yous think you will be able to contribute to the forum in a positive way?

Wibbs

metrovelvet wrote:

I want to to tell us publically how he perceives himself thats why.

Not wishing to jump in late on this one, but does not the open letter Qadri posted not pretty much give you his position, on this matter at least? Presumably that's why the chap posted it. Now I had a few issues with some of it and expressed same, but I honestly don't see how his leanings are that hidden. Check out his other posts for clarity maybe. Not to speak for the bloke, but I take him to be a religious, studious kind o' guy, who believes in his thang and takes questions pretty well. I for one would regard him as a 'moderate', whatever that means in the context of the religious. In fact, check out the patience of some mods in other religious forums who have to deal with more 'immoderate' unchanging views(no names etc).

As Devore said, the forum isnt about proving things so I dont know what you are on Wibbs back about proving the saudi king is a dipso.

Ah here. Turned on the rack for a crime he didn't commit, Wibbs consoles himself that it was all in the name of free speech.... (This 3rd party Pigheadism is catching).

For me, whether the Saudi king is a dipso isn't that relevant to the thread, unless you're speaking of hypocrisy, which all religions and peoples have an abundance of. It's along the lines of the nazis were for the most part Christians therefore.... It says nothing about the religion in particular. Islam's attitude to drink is certainly not an altogether bad thing. For all the dopeyness of some of the saudi rules and regs, there's not too many drunken brawls in Riyadh methinks. A good thing too.

metrovelvet

Neither of you are getting it. It doesnt matter how I perceive him, I wanted to know how he perceives himself. You shouldnt speak for him Wibbs. Its not your place to and hes well able of fighting his own battles,but you notice he hasnt returned. Im not going to make assumptions on this mans lifestyle based on the propeganda he spouts.

Hobbes can you show me on the thread where I said what you are claiming I said or was that in a pm, which is not public and therefore irrelevant to the thread in question. Considering how political his post was its entirely relevant to ask what ideology hes coming from.

So now in islam a question is an attack. This is why islam thread is a joke. Unbelievable. And yet so typical. You do realise Hobbes you are worsening not helping the reputation of Islam for being rigid, censorious and no sense of the humanities.

Asking someone where they are on the political spectrum is not an attack. If you think that you really need to get into a political theory class ASAP.

Hobbes

metrovelvet wrote:

Hobbes can you show me on the thread where I said what you are claiming I said or was that in a pm, which is not public and therefore irrelevant to the thread in question.

It is totally relevent. You said that you didn't believe he was a moderate based on that post yet never once detailed why you believed this.

Seriously this is going around in circles.

You do realise Hobbes you are worsening not helping the reputation of Islam for being rigid, censorious and no sense of the humanities.

lol. Yea right. Thats why yourself and others were told to continue certain conversations in relevent forums or private messages or the correct thread.

Asking someone where they are on the political spectrum is not an attack.

It is if you keep asking on a thread which is not related to your question without commenting on the thread in question.

metrovelvet

You make no sense whatsoever.

If a comment is off topic you want it PMd. And yet now you say Pmd comments are relevant, so which way do want it? If they were relevent I wouldnt have had to PM them in the first place.

And so what if i don find him a moderate? I can have an opinion. Whats your point? SO unless I agree that his perspective is moderate than Im personally attacking the man?

Well I wont find anyone who belongs to a religion which does not allow women into the place of worship moderate in anyway. Nor will I find the censorship of artists moderate.

What is your point? Of course you want to turn this around on me than actually take a good look at the decisions you make on that forum.

Hobbes

metrovelvet wrote:

If a comment is off topic you want it PMd. And yet now you say Pmd comments are relevant, so which way do want it?

Asking him his opinion on his religon as a whole instead of the actual threads subject matter = Offtopic.

Claiming you believed he wasn't moderate based on what he posted = Ontopic.

Refusing to back up those claims in the thread in question or anywhere for that matter. = Priceless.

I can have an opinion.

Yes the issue is where you put that opinion, or actually backing up that opinion with something more then "I say so".

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Hobbes

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Like I said, you will find the same rules will apply in other religon forums.

But he said "yet people can insult christianity,judaism, Israel a lot and everyone agree's.". Feel free to report what he deems as insults. Either they are insulting or not. If he finds them offensive report them, or did yous all miss the bit of the charter where it says no attacks on any religon?

... Really, please find something offensive not related to Islam on the forum.

Wolff

Wibbs wrote:

For me, whether the Saudi king is a dipso isn't that relevant to the thread, unless you're speaking of hypocrisy, which all religions and peoples have an abundance of. It's along the lines of the nazis were for the most part Christians therefore.... It says nothing about the religion in particular. Islam's attitude to drink is certainly not an altogether bad thing. For all the dopeyness of some of the saudi rules and regs, there's not too many drunken brawls in Riyadh methinks. A good thing too.

The fact of the king of saudi was quoted as an example of the double standards that apply

and also in response to the earlier post that the saudi gov gives out free beer.

as for the lack of drunken brawls in Riyadh - usually because all the yobbos are at main square watching some poor wretch having his/her head cut off for withcraft

Yeah those dopey rules like the one that kept schoolgirls locked into a burning school by the religious police. no harm there allright

yes its a paradise on earth that saudi arabia

Wolff

Hobbes wrote:

No. You claimed his comments were not moderate, you were asked numerous times why and in what way and totally ignored the question as you do now. Rather then trying to attack the post you were trying to attack the poster.

Similar to Wolffs comments about the Saudi king. It is not to have a go at the person but to infer some kind of problem with Muslims and Islam as a whole.

Look tbh I have a personal rule of not banning people for thier comments outside of the forum but I am willing to make an exception for you two if it makes you feel any better. Or do yous think you will be able to contribute to the forum in a positive way?

my comment was about the saudi king not islam - also are you threatening to ban for posting in this forum too ?

so if I complain about the posts I get banned again in addition to the ban I already have

Nice set up hobbes

very nice

My point proved so .

metrovelvet

You may as well be talking to a wall though a wall would make more sense.

Hobbes says OT opinions should be PMd.

But all of a sudden those same PMs are suddenly on topic.

I wont repeat myself again, a question is not a statement.

You just dont get it. I find it offensive that you ally yourself with the PC brigade when the left supports womens rights and free speech and you clearly are biased towarhd a religion which wants to destroy these freedoms.

DeVore

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=871517&postcount=6

thats what I posted on the Christianity forum. You'll note there is not a single line about having to put up with people who consistently badger and attack the christian faith (which is what is clearly happening in the Muslim forum). Take it to humanities if you want to discuss the rights of women in Muslim countries but you had better not be racist or Amp will ban your asses there too.

Bottom line, if you went into the Christianity forum and said "the pope is an alco" I'd support you being banned from there too.

Perhaps you would both be better off not going into the Muslim forum and leaving them alone rather then poking them with a stick.

DeV.

Wolff

Hate to burst the bubble but the Saudi king is not a religious figurehead like the pope so the comparison is fairly inane