Driving alone on a provisional

dbnavan

My wife has 10 years driving experience in America, licence means SFA over here, even though she can rent a car, anytime with american licence.
She is getting provisional licence but how strict are guards about driving with out someone with a full licence?

We need a car as we have a baby on the way, and waiting over a year for her test is not feasible.

Ferror

If you do quick search of the MOTORS forum, you'll find that this has been done a few times already...

Hope everything works out for you!

dbnavan

Can someone move this thread to motors please?

Seth Brundle

Has she checked about transferring the US licence to an EU/Irish one. I don't know if it is possible but wirht a phone call.
She should be fine driving on her own as it isn't currently really enforced. I don't think it is in the points list either...
http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/7262-0.pdf

Henry Ford III

Not enforced doesn't make it legal however.

She must display "L" plates too.

dbnavan

American licence mean nothing over here, it one of only a few countries that you cant just convert....excuse......"They all drive automatics".

In over 10 years of driving wife never owned an automatic.

Bluetonic

Simple solution is to 'lose' the first provisional and then apply for a new licence. A second one will be give, the first one is not reissued.

Perfectly legal to drive alone on second provisonal.

esskay

I drove on a provisional unsupervised for over 3 yrs. I got pulled a few times and new had any hassle, I even had to drop my license in to the station a one stage and they said nowt. Still, it may depend on the garda who stops you. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it

dbnavan

Bluetonic wrote:

Simple solution is to 'lose' the first provisional and then apply for a new licence. A second one will be give, the first one is not reissued.

Perfectly legal to drive alone on second provisonal.

Somehow I would think there is a difference in a second provisional and a replacement 1, i dunno could be wrong, i dont have one as i dont drive but find it hard to believe it to be that easy.

Bluetonic

dbnavan wrote:

Somehow I would think there is a difference in a second provisional and a replacement 1, i dunno could be wrong, i dont have one as i dont drive but find it hard to believe it to be that easy.

There isn't.

Also for reference https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/40424/18717.jpg

keithclancy

Bluetonic wrote:

There isn't.

Also for reference https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/40424/18717.jpg

Yes there is,
If you get a replacment license it will still have the same restriction on it, 921 and 922 if i remember correctly, 922 is for Full License passanger required.

Throwing your license away doesn't mean you get a restrictions removed or added.

Bluetonic

keithclancy wrote:

Yes there is,
If you get a replacment license it will still have the same restriction on it, 921 and 922 if i remember correctly, 922 is for Full License passanger required.

Throwing your license away doesn't mean you get a restrictions removed or added.

From personal experience a few years ago I have to disagree with you, a new licence was applied for and a new licence was given, i.e a D.201 form was used and not a D.800.

dbnavan

Bluetonic wrote:

There isn't.

Also for reference https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/40424/18717.jpg

While the posting of the article is very interesting reading, it is irrelevent to the fact that there is a difference in a 2nd provisional and a replacement 1st

el tel

Location: Ireland
Issue: Driver licencing (provisional)
Legal requirements: Nobody knows for sure

Advice: "G'wan sure, she'll be grand"
:rolleyes:

Bluetonic

dbnavan wrote:

While the posting of the article is very interesting reading, it is irrelevent to the fact that there is a difference in a 2nd provisional and a replacement 1st

Don't apply for a replacement, apply for a new provisional. I'm just letting you know what I, and others I know had done successfully in the past a few moons ago.

I don't think I need to add anything further.

MrPudding

Did the minister for transport not make it a requirement for all drivers on any provisional to be accompanied last year? Or did he just say he was thinking about it? Either way it is mental the provos can drive on their own.

MrP

Seth Brundle

I don't think the minister made any changes. All prov licence drivers (except those on 2nd provisionals) need to be accompanied. However this will change someday!

jhegarty

Checkout counties they will swap their licence for us one... then find if their licences can be swapped for an Irish one....

Henry Ford III

I agree. It is ridiculous to let untested drivers out on the roads. Just because somebody is on their 2nd prov. license doesn't mean they've ever driven a car.

It's stupid, dangerous, inflates insurance costs, and I've no doubt leads to otherwise avoidable fatalities.

murphaph

Some EU countries have reciprocal arrangements with some states in the US to allow licence swaps. Not all EU countries and not all US States are covered but many are. I know Germany has arrangements with a good few US states for automatic swapping of licences but many of the more popular states aren't covered as Germany does not deem their standard of driver testing to be adequate (NY for example) but many are (Illinois is one). If you could get a german address or similar in another EU state, friends in these countries?? Messy but so worth getting a full EU licence (won't even need converting to Irish).

Our man in Havana

Best option is to get a swiss licence and then convert it into an Irish licence.

Illkillya

Theres no need to wait 1 year for your test if you get a letter from your employer to say that you need your full licence for work. I got my test 2 weeks after applying this way.

Saruman

Bond-007 wrote:

Best option is to get a swiss licence and then convert it into an Irish licence.

How does one just convert to a swill licence?? Surely you need to know someone there to have an address? The reason i ask is im in the same boat as first poster.. Wife is an American, driving longer than i have with clean US licence but it means nothing here. I had hoped the UK would change but nope... They will not even change Canadian any more unless its to be an automatic only licence.

Actually i could make do with automatic only licence but i need an automatic car then

Our man in Havana

Saruman wrote:

How does one just convert to a swill licence?? Surely you need to know someone there to have an address? The reason i ask is im in the same boat as first poster.. Wife is an American, driving longer than i have with clean US licence but it means nothing here. I had hoped the UK would change but nope... They will not even change Canadian any more unless its to be an automatic only licence.

Actually i could make do with automatic only licence but i need an automatic car then

You would need the use of an address in Switzerland so they can post out your new swiss licence. People have done it and it works.

Saruman

hmmm interesting... any idea on how someone gets a swiss address? Other than moving there or knowing someone who lives there?? It would be an ideal solution. My wife has her provisional theory test on the 18th so hope she gets it and at least gets a provisional.

Alun

Well if you were to do it legally, not that that seems to bother anyone here, you'd have to be resident in Switzerland, not just "have an address" there whatever that might mean. I mean, I know people who live in half a dozen different EU countries, but does that mean I can legally get a licence from any of those? Of course, it doesn't, that'd be just taking the p1ss. Chancers, the lot of you.

Our man in Havana

In the UK you don't need to prove you live at the address you give.

Alun

Bond-007 wrote:

In the UK you don't need to prove you live at the address you give.

Well they might not actually check, but it is a requirement that you are a) permanently resident in the UK and b) have a permanent address there. If you knowingly provide false information, then I'm sure there's some small print somewhere that would mean your licence obtained in such a way was invalid.

Sparky

Illkillya wrote:

Theres no need to wait 1 year for your test if you get a letter from your employer to say that you need your full licence for work. I got my test 2 weeks after applying this way.

Ya serious:eek:, im about to fill in the application form and i was told that an employers note to inform of it required for work, would speed things up.
I reckoned 2 months but 2 weeks sounds even better.

Better make myself get into the habit of "feeding the wheel" now.

pontovic

To be honest, you should be fairly safe driving alone on a provisional licence, but if you find yourself in an accident you could be screwed. I drove alone on a provisional for ages knowing that risk, but I did it anyway. I had to get into work I had no other choice. Its your gamble, your wife should be fine as long as she doesn't bump into anyone else touchwood.

jdwals

I don't think you're screwed if you're in an accident. I remember when Seamus Brennan put his big stupid feet into the problem and announced all provisional licence holders were going to be put off the road thus casuing a mass stamped of applications to an already over burdened system - anyway, at the time they had some insurance rep guy on prime time and they asked him about insurance and provisional drivers and he said that if a provisional licence holder is in an accident that the insurance companies will honour their insurance and that they are covered.
I guess it would be pushing things too far for them not to charging up to €5,000 for insuring provisional licence holders.

Hagar

Saruman wrote:

How does one just convert to a swill licence??

Ask Pighead

skywalker_208

MrPudding wrote:

Either way it is mental the provos can drive on their own.
MrP

yea well.. when you are waiting for over a year for a test what can you do... this wouldnt really be an issue if you could apply for and do a test within a few weeks like other countries...

Litcagral

kbannon wrote:

All prov licence drivers (except those on 2nd provisionals) need to be accompanied. QUOTE]


Incorrect.

Provisional drivers in categories A and W are not required to be accompanied.

Seth Brundle

Litcagral wrote:

Incorrect.

Provisional drivers in categories A and W are not required to be accompanied.

Well, given that the entire conversation has been about transferring a car licence, I thought it was safe to refer to car driving licences without the need to refer to tractors, trucks, mopeds, etc.

However, since you decided to correct me on it, maybe you should have also mentioned that moped riders (Class M) do not need (legally(!)) to be accompanied.

Sparky

just as a matter of interest, and because i had some free time to spare i rang up my driving instructor from 2 years ago as he said he will do a pre driving test, test to see how i am.

His result was that he would not see any problem on me passing my test, and that the only thing i have to sort out is to always remember handbrake-neutral in 3 instances i done it neutral-handbrake and to try and use the steering wheel properly, this is what i really want to get sorted, sometimes i feed the wheel then in certain instances like a sharp corner i dont.

He said my attitude towards other road users was excellent, and that they will look out for that. And his best tip was put on some newstalk or slow music nothing to upbeet tempo as it tends to make people do things a bit faster.

Anyways form gos off tomorrow

MrPudding

skywalker_208 wrote:

yea well.. when you are waiting for over a year for a test what can you do... this wouldnt really be an issue if you could apply for and do a test within a few weeks like other countries...

Blah blah blah. No excuse, I'm sorry. It is an absolute disgrace that ;earners have to wait a year for their test but it still does not excuse it.

Some provisional drivers are, so I have heard, OK at driving. But some are not. How can anyone think that allowing someone who does not know how to drive and possibly hasn't had any actual lessons isn't dangerous? It is fcuking madness. Simply because people are inconvienienced by the length of time they have to wait is no excuse for putting other road users at risk.

There was an interesting article in the IT on saturday. One of the journos was doing a story on the coroners court. It was quite interesting. One of the cases was a man killed by somone driving a car. The family were not happy with the result, it was a non result really. One of the family members was asking a few questions. He refered to the pictures of the car that killed his father and pointed out it had L plates. He asked if the driver was qualified, the answer was the question was beyond the scope of the coroners office. Is anyone collecting figures?

Do we have any idea how many provisional drivers are involved in accidents? I have lost count of the number of near misses I have had with unaccompanied L drivers. Madness.

MrP

Our man in Havana

It seems to me that the coroners court is inpotent to answer probing questions about the causes of accidents.
I was at the inquest into the death of my brother in law 2 years ago and I asked some very probing questions of the garda witnesses but these were not answered as they were not within the scope of an inquest. Of course the gardai are clever enough to make sure that anything uncovered in the inquest is outside the time limit for a prosecution so its always a case of justice denied for the dead.

MrPudding

Bond-007 wrote:

It seems to me that the coroners court is inpotent to answer probing questions about the causes of accidents.
I was at the inquest into the death of my brother in law 2 years ago and I asked some very probing questions of the garda witnesses but these were not answered as they were not within the scope of an inquest. Of course the gardai are clever enough to make sure that anything uncovered in the inquest is outside the time limit for a prosecution so its always a case of justice denied for the dead.

Shame. It has the potential to be useful for getting to the bottom of accidents. THe journalist did point out a number of questions that a relative asked, and like in your case he was told they were beyond the scope. It was an interesting article.

MrP

blastman

There was a few interesting figures in the IT Motoring section yesterday regarding provisionally licenced drivers. Apparently there are about 404,000 provisional drivers on the roads in Ireland, but only about 125,000 are waiting on a driving test. According to the insurance companies, provisional drivers are up to twice as likely to make a claim. But the main thing was (and this will be of interest to the OP and his missus), the offence of driving unaccompanied on a provisional licence is not among the top 3000 (that's three thousand, folks) offences that come before the courts each year. The amount of cases is so small it cannot be measured (in the words of the article).

G'wan sure, you'll be grand!

jdwals

In my time driving on the road almost without exception the most dangerous driving I have witnessed on the roads has not been from cars with L plates but cars that display no L plates.
In fact the only real issue with L drivers I have is making sure I a: give them plenty off space if I come up behind them on a hill start and b: making sure they don't stall the car at lights when they change to green.
Actually I lie, the big problem I have is when stuck behind them at a set of lights and the stall the car and some ass wipe behind them or behind me starts blowing them out of it with their car horn - like that is really going to help them start up and get moving. Morons.

Supercell

jdwals wrote:

Actually I lie, the big problem I have is when stuck behind them at a set of lights and the stall the car and some ass wipe behind them or behind me starts blowing them out of it with their car horn - like that is really going to help them start up and get moving. Morons.

As a learner I wish there was more considerate drivers like you on the road.
I have stalled once or twice at lights and a fecker flowing their horn just makes things 100% worse (and of course makes the delay even longer as I get flustered).
Good karma coming your way

MrPudding

jdwals wrote:

In my time driving on the road almost without exception the most dangerous driving I have witnessed on the roads has not been from cars with L plates but cars that display no L plates.

This may be your personal experience but the facts are that learner drivers are up to twice as likely to be involved in an accident as a driver with a full licence.

MrP

Ballboy

You'll get away no probs without having another driver... All my friends are on the provisional and not one of them have got caught and they drive the most dodgyist cars!!!

Bogger77

dbnavan wrote:

My wife has 10 years driving experience in America, licence means SFA over here, even though she can rent a car, anytime with american licence.
She is getting provisional licence but how strict are guards about driving with out someone with a full licence?

We need a car as we have a baby on the way, and waiting over a year for her test is not feasible.

THe Provo license is needed for insurance only. If she is the named driver, and listed as such on the cert. Then she can use her american license for driving, as both are under her name. AFAIK.

Brend

I have been driving on a provisional since april, i had a small accident last september where i hit the back of a rented car. The cops were called and i did not have a full licenced driver so i was kinda bricking it. When they asked for my licence i said sheepishly it only a provisional. She said to me thats fine once the insurance policy was in my name, i think if i had been a named driver on a policy it might have been diffrent. So i wouldn't worry about it, just make sure the policy is in your wifes name.

Jood

I've been driving on my own with a provisional for the last 12 months and have never had a problem, but a friend was pulled before christmas and the garda asked her for all the usual and when she showed him her provisional he said that he'd leave her off this time but they will be cracking down on driving alone on a provisional from here on in. Well all was grand till last week when two gardai arrived at her door with a summons for court. She's trying to get it quashed at the moment.

Sparky

Jood wrote:

I've been driving on my own with a provisional for the last 12 months and have never had a problem, but a friend was pulled before christmas and the garda asked her for all the usual and when she showed him her provisional he said that he'd leave her off this time but they will be cracking down on driving alone on a provisional from here on in. Well all was grand till last week when two gardai arrived at her door with a summons for court. She's trying to get it quashed at the moment.

I gather she is on her first provisional. As I am aware you may drive alone on a second provisional.

loyatemu

surely if US tourists can drive here on US licenses then so can she...

As suggested above - get the provisional so she can get insured on an irish car, and apply for the test. If she gets pulled over she can show the US license.

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/exchanging_foreign_driving_permit.html
If you are not from any of the above countries, (for example, if you are from Canada, the United States or New Zealand), and you hold a national driving licence or an international driving permit from your own country, you may drive in Ireland for the duration of your temporary visit (up to 12 months).

TempestSabre

jdwals wrote:

In my time driving on the road almost without exception the most dangerous driving I have witnessed on the roads has not been from cars with L plates but cars that display no L plates.....

The stats don't agree with you.

Personally I don't have a problem with L drivers. Everyone has to learn. Just avoid the roads at peak please. The reality is that Guards aren't enforcing the law on this, or drink driving for that matter. I haven't seen a check for drink driving in well over 10yrs. But hey they'll get you for 5mph over the limit because thats REALLY dangerous. You've a better chance of winning the lotto than getting done for driving on a L plate alone.

I'm sure you need a difference insurance for driving on a US licence.