Visiting my rented accommodation off the cuff

Lex Luthor

I have tried for the last week to get in touch with my tenant, but getting no answer from her mobile. She changes her number more often than her knickers, so I'm not surprised.
Anyway, I'm going to be in the neighbourhood on Sunday and wondering what my rights are to enter the property without her knowing I'm coming. If she's not there, or if she is, am I entitled to enter the property.

I also want to suss her out about taking the property for another year as the lease is up end of next month.

iguana

Why not send her a letter stating your intention to visit on Sunday? The letter would be bound to arrive before Friday if you send it Monday and that way you would have met your obligation to give notice,

Lex Luthor

iguana wrote:

Why not send her a letter stating your intention to visit on Sunday? The letter would be bound to arrive before Friday if you send it Monday and that way you would have met your obligation to give notice,

should actually have mentioned the Sunday is tomorrow...

Victor

Showing up "just like that" isn't on. If you want, call in the morning and say you've been trying to get in contact with her and arrange to meet later in the day.

It at least allows her sort her knickers from her phones.

Lex Luthor

Victor wrote:

Showing up "just like that" isn't on. If you want, call in the morning and say you've been trying to get in contact with her and arrange to meet later in the day.

It at least allows her sort her knickers from her phones.

Thats what I plan to do...gonna knock in...if shes there tell her I'll be back in 2hrs, if she's not, drop a note in the door and get her to call me asap.

KTRIC

Lex Luthor wrote:

Thats what I plan to do...gonna knock in...if shes there tell her I'll be back in 2hrs, if she's not, drop a note in the door and get her to call me asap.

That would be the nicest thing to do.

lomb

write her a letter and post it. if she pays the rent id leave her alone. signing additional one year leases after the initial term expires is a forcable thing to do. once the year passes normally the let continues on a month to month basis until either party terminates the lease. if i was the tenant and the landlord wanted me to sign another lease id be looking elsewhere,theres an awful lot of choice out there for rental properties and the choice is growing by the day, just my two cents..

Victor

lomb wrote:

once the year passes normally the let continues on a month to month basis until either party terminates the lease.

Generally yes, but the Residential Tenancies Act supercedes this and depending on the length of occupancy, both sides may need to give greater notice.

Lex Luthor

I'm still gonna get her to sign a new agreement even though you think its not worth it

lomb

Lex Luthor wrote:

I'm still gonna get her to sign a new agreement even though you think its not worth it

i never said i didnt think it was worth it, i said fair play was the fact she gave you a years hassle free let and paid the rent, signing another years contract just seeks to tie her in and strengthen your position over hers.

thats just why id rather buy a place over renting. zero control...
incidentally id do exactly what u are doing if i owned a commerical property but they are let on leases that can be reassigned many at a premium, whereas if a tenant finds a place i dont think he can reassign a lease. also commercial property is location based and both the tenant needs security and the landlord also as he may suffer rent free periods of years in some cases of non prime property.

residential lets overnight at the moment, i dont see any need to tie a good tenant in, u could find she moves out, and in their place u get people who tear the place apart and wont leave and wont pay any rent but thats just my two cents..

Victor

Victor wrote:

It at least allows her sort her knickers from her phones.

Damn, was going to comment on the knicker angle too...

hmmm

Lex Luthor wrote:

Thats what I plan to do...gonna knock in...if shes there tell her I'll be back in 2hrs, if she's not, drop a note in the door and get her to call me asap.

hohoho you're all very funny. If you turn up with that attitude, your tenant has the right to tell you to go away, 2 hours or not. Even if she lets you in after the 2 hours, I'd bet she'll begin planning to move somewhere where she won't have a creepy landlord dropping in on her unannounced.

I would write a letter if she is not contactable.

Lex Luthor

hmmm wrote:

hohoho you're all very funny. If you turn up with that attitude, your tenant has the right to tell you to go away, 2 hours or not. Even if she lets you in after the 2 hours, I'd bet she'll begin planning to move somewhere where she won't have a creepy landlord dropping in on her unannounced.

I would write a letter if she is not contactable.

I wouldn't say that was an attitude:rolleyes:

And as for creepy, I don't think 2 visits on one year constitutes "creepy"

Calina

Turning up on Sunday does, in my book, constitute creepy, sorry. And just so that it's absolutely clear, you are not entitled to enter the house either in her presence or without her presence without her agreement.

Put it like this, if you turned up at my door on Sunday morning to say you'd be back in two hours, I'd be considering my options, the primary one being to move out. I think it's rude to turn up on a Sunday anyway.

Additionally - and this is a general comment - I'd be reluctant to let my property - if I had one - to someone whom I had difficulty in contacting.

Downtime

Lex Luthor wrote:

I wouldn't say that was an attitude:rolleyes:

And as for creepy, I don't think 2 visits on one year constitutes "creepy"

Not creepy agreed but you must give her reasonable notice that you are turning up - by knocking on her door you are breaking the law. Leave a note in the letter box saying that you wish to see her and set a time and date and if it doesn't suit her get her to contact you.

TheBigLebowski

Lex Luthor wrote:

Anyway, I'm going to be in the neighbourhood on Sunday and wondering what my rights are to enter the property without her knowing I'm coming.

This is completely illegal and you are a bad landlord.

Lex Luthor

Calina wrote:

Turning up on Sunday does, in my book, constitute creepy, sorry. And just so that it's absolutely clear, you are not entitled to enter the house either in her presence or without her presence without her agreement.

Put it like this, if you turned up at my door on Sunday morning to say you'd be back in two hours, I'd be considering my options, the primary one being to move out. I think it's rude to turn up on a Sunday anyway.

Additionally - and this is a general comment - I'd be reluctant to let my property - if I had one - to someone whom I had difficulty in contacting.

I was in the area, it was going to be more of a courtesy call, rather than anything. Ok, I may have phrased my original post badly by saying I wanted to enter the property without her knowing I'm coming....but I was hardly going to go in if she wasn't there...more of just going in if she was but not expecting me...
Thats why I got my wife to knock in case she wasn't properly dressed or anything while I stayed in the car with the kids.

Downtime wrote:

Not creepy agreed but you must give her reasonable notice that you are turning up - by knocking on her door you are breaking the law. Leave a note in the letter box saying that you wish to see her and set a time and date and if it doesn't suit her get her to contact you.

Hardly against the law knocking on a persons door. And thats what I did do..I left a letter in her letter box told I'd be in the area till 2pm...if she was back and it was convenient to meet, then call me. She did, it wasn't so I went home. No loss.

TheBigLebowski wrote:

This is completely illegal and you are a bad landlord.

Give it a rest....

The fact I posted in the first place to get advice shows I was looking for information...:rolleyes:

hmmm

more of just going in if she was but not expecting me...

What is it with the lack of professionalism of some landlords in this country? Your tenant has a right to peaceful enjoyment of her tenancy. She's not your child, relative or friend - she's not doing you a favour by renting your property, and just because you own the place doesn't mean you can be going around putting a tenant under pressure by knocking on their door and looking to "drop in". Luckily I have a landlord who isn't an amateur, with the rental market these days there's no need for anyone to put up with that sort of attitude.

MorningStar

hmmm wrote:

What is it with the lack of professionalism of some landlords in this country? Your tenant has a right to peaceful enjoyment of her tenancy. She's not your child, relative or friend - she's not doing you a favour by renting your property, and just because you own the place doesn't mean you can be going around putting a tenant under pressure by knocking on their door and looking to "drop in". Luckily I have a landlord who isn't an amateur, with the rental market these days there's no need for anyone to put up with that sort of attitude.

A landlord is allowed and entitled to call around to his property at any point. In this case the landlord tried to get in touch and the person didn't answer their phone.

The proffesional agreement is two sided the tenant failing to keep a line of communication open meant the landlord had no other method of contacting them. If you own a place and the tenant is uncontactable you certainly do have the right to see if everything is alright. The tenant has obligation too and in theis case she failed. She has a right to peace if she gives the landlord peace.

I had a tenant who was in hospital after an accident and nobody knew what happened to him. Before mobile phones it was a bigger issue. When we went in to the place it was covered in flies etc from rubbish and food. The tenant had ou number could have rang but instead he let the place become infested.

Lex Luthor

MorningStar wrote:

A landlord is allowed and entitled to call around to his property at any point. In this case the landlord tried to get in touch and the person didn't answer their phone.

The proffesional agreement is two sided the tenant failing to keep a line of communication open meant the landlord had no other method of contacting them. If you own a place and the tenant is uncontactable you certainly do have the right to see if everything is alright. The tenant has obligation too and in theis case she failed. She has a right to peace if she gives the landlord peace.

I had a tenant who was in hospital after an accident and nobody knew what happened to him. Before mobile phones it was a bigger issue. When we went in to the place it was covered in flies etc from rubbish and food. The tenant had ou number could have rang but instead he let the place become infested.

at last someone with a bit of sense

dbnavan

Would expect a land lord to know all of his/her rights if not visit

It is your property you are entitled to call in at any time but you do need premission to enter the premisies

You do not have the right to enter your tenants’ home without permission.
for more see http://oasis.gov.ie/housing/renting_a_flat_or_house/landlords_rights_and_obligations.html

MorningStar

.

MorningStar

dbnavan wrote:

Would expect a land lord to know all of his/her rights if not visit

It is your property you are entitled to call in at any time but you do need premission to enter the premisies

You do not have the right to enter your tenants’ home without permission.
for more see http://oasis.gov.ie/housing/renting_a_flat_or_house/landlords_rights_and_obligations.html

Oasis can be funny sometimes as it misses some details on occasion. My understanding is if you believe there is a danger to your property and tenants you can enter e.g. the smell of gas and there is no answer. I will enter my property if that is the case one way or the other and I would like to see who would try and bring a case against me

dbnavan

MorningStar wrote:

Oasis can be funny sometimes as it misses some details on occasion. My understanding is if you believe there is a danger to your property and tenants you can enter e.g. the smell of gas and there is no answer. I will enter my property if that is the case one way or the other and I would like to see who would try and bring a case against me

Oasis gives guidelines and laws, obviously if you smell gas, i would see this as an exception to a rule, but such an exception would have to exsist. If i thought my neighbour was in danger ie: I saw smoke coming from a bedroom and I broke a window cause nobody was answering the door.......maybe a different debate.

MorningStar

dbnavan wrote:

Oasis gives guidelines and laws, obviously if you smell gas, i would see this as an exception to a rule, but such an exception would have to exsist. If i thought my neighbour was in danger ie: I saw smoke coming from a bedroom and I broke a window cause nobody was answering the door.......maybe a different debate.

Not knowing if your tenant is alive or dead becasue they fail to contact you? A good enough reason to call to the door? Perfectaly acceptable to call to the door. THe original point being yes you are able to call on your property if your other form of contact stops working. Assume the worst a friend of mine found somebody dead in his property.

hmmm

MorningStar wrote:

Not knowing if your tenant is alive or dead becasue they fail to contact you? A good enough reason to call to the door? Perfectaly acceptable to call to the door. THe original point being yes you are able to call on your property if your other form of contact stops working. Assume the worst a friend of mine found somebody dead in his property.

No-ones saying a landlord cannot call to the door. What the original poster was talking about doing was handing an effective ultimatum at that point that they would return within 2 hours to enter the premises. They felt that this was somewhat acceptable. It isn't, and it is against the law if the tenant wanted to take it further.

the_syco

From http://oasis.gov.ie/housing/renting_a_flat_or_house/landlords_rights_and_obligations.html

You do not have the right to

• enter your tenants’ home without permission.
• take or retain your tenants’ property – even if they haven’t paid the rent.
• charge more than the market rate for the property.
• penalise tenants for bringing a dispute to the PRTB.

Now, it doesn't mention anything about not being able to enter, if they got permission from the tenant. And he asked first, so he broke no law. Finally, where is there a "How to be a landlord" course? There's none? Then how's he meant to know everything about renting a property?

Calina

the_syco wrote:

From http://oasis.gov.ie/housing/renting_a_flat_or_house/landlords_rights_and_obligations.html
[/LIST]Now, it doesn't mention anything about not being able to enter, if they got permission from the tenant. And he asked first, so he broke no law. Finally, where is there a "How to be a landlord" course? There's none? Then how's he meant to know everything about renting a property?

He should give reasonable notice of his intention to call. In my book, two hours "I'm just calling by to tell you I am coming to see you in two hours" on a Sunday morning is not reasonable. If my landlord tried that, I'm sorry, that would be the end of things. Don't care how much he wanted to renew the agreement, I think I'd be moving.

Clearly there is no "how to be a landlord" course. But Threshold are kind enough to have some useful information on line, and obviously you've found a bit of info on Oasis. In my experience, many landlords don't even go that far.

In any case, this guy was quite happy to look at renewing a lease with a tenant which he found it almost impossible to remain in contact with. Me personally I would keep my landlord up to date with my mobile numbers. Me as a landlord - and I'm not one - I'd be questioning whether I want to continue a business agreement with someont that I have to go and knock on their door on a Sunday morning to get hold of them.

But that's just my takel

the_syco

Calina wrote:

In my experience, many landlords don't even go that far.

Aye, but this one asked us. Not much, but it's more than "many" would do. From the reading of his posts, I get the feeling that he was doing something else in the area, and thought he'd stop by, and ask her, or give her some info on it. At least let her know that the option is there. It'd save her having to start looking for a new place, once the lease is up (as what many people do do).

Of the past landlords I've had, unless the door is open, they won't enter, and if they knock, they usually don't say they're coming, but even though they have the keys, they still knock. This guy was asking would that be ok.

As for keeping in contact, some people go thru 2 mobile phone numbers a year, so it may be a bit hard. Also, he ain't her mammy, so I see no reason why he should ring every month to check up on her, thus 2 phone calls a year is grand, imo.

deputydugs

Em I have a degree and type rather fast and hold a handy speed gun. You on the other hand are fecking real dumb my friend. Hope she takes you to court.:p What type of landlord are you, I wonder did you declare the fact you are renting the house.em......

Lex Luthor wrote:

should actually have mentioned the Sunday is tomorrow...

Lex Luthor

deputydugs wrote:

Em I have a degree and type rather fast and hold a handy speed gun. You on the other hand are fecking real dumb my friend. Hope she takes you to court.:p

Glad my degree then got me a proper job:p

deputydugs wrote:

wonder did you declare the fact you are renting the house.em......

Stick to your speed gun;)

Victor

I don't see this going anywhere constructive.

Lex Luthor

Victor wrote:

I don't see this going anywhere constructive.

Me too....I made my visit, no problems...you can close if you like.

MorningStar

Calina wrote:

He should give reasonable notice of his intention to call. In my book, two hours "I'm just calling by to tell you I am coming to see you in two hours" on a Sunday morning is not reasonable. If my landlord tried that, I'm sorry, that would be the end of things. Don't care how much he wanted to renew the agreement, I think I'd be moving.

I make a point of calling to my property irregularly becasue of tenants behaviour. I will tell somebody I will come back later if they would prefer but if they don't keep the place clean it is obvious regardless of when I call in. No tenant has ever moved out asa result. It may be a factor but many long term renters have no idea of how to maintain things like keeping a cooker clean.

I know I am not renting to the top of the market. Tenants should feel comfortable with you about and if they get mad just beacuse you are about I don't want them in the property. There is responsibity on both sides and if a tenant doesn't like you being in the property then they have the problem. I am not going to root around the house I should be welcomed in.

Lex Luthor

Just to close this out, my original post was probably taken out of context...I was never going to ENTER the property with the tenant not being there. I phrased it wrong....I meant to call in when she wasn't aware of my visit.

I just wanted to see what peoples opinions were if I was to call without her knowing I was coming even if I tried to make contact. I was in the area, so it was basically a courtesy call...

She wasn't there, I left a note, I left, her mother found the note half an hour later, passed it to her, she called me, we had a chat, I went home.

For people to imply I'm a creepy landlord, i take offence to...I am happily married with 2 kids and have no intentions on creeping around my rented property to get a thrill.....GROW UP.

hmmm

No-one was accusing you of wanting to enter the property when the tenant wasn't there, it was questioning the appropriateness of calling to the property and expecting to be admitted either immediately or within two hours.

It's important for tenants reading this thread to understand that what Morningstar describes is straddling the borderline of legality and if they have a landlord who treats them like this they would be on strong grounds to challenge the landlord through the courts if necessary. If a landlord enters without permission (not saying MStar is) remember that this is trespass.

Tenants are tenants and not serfs. It's only through tenants understanding and enforcing their rights that we will get professional landlord behaviour.

(edited) I should add that 24 hours would be a period I would consider "reasonable" notice considering legislation in other jurisdictions. I'm not aware that this timeline however has ever been legislated for in Ireland.

Lex Luthor

hmmm wrote:

(edited) I should add that 24 hours would be a period I would consider "reasonable" notice considering legislation in other jurisdictions. I'm not aware that this timeline however has ever been legislated for in Ireland.

Considering the property is about 2hrs away and I'm never anywhere near it and I tried to get in touch, it would have been another while I would have been there.
Plus she was having difficulty with the alarm so she asked next time I was down to drop in and show her how to work it properly.

MorningStar

hmmm wrote:

It's important for tenants reading this thread to understand that what Morningstar describes is straddling the borderline of legality and if they have a landlord who treats them like this they would be on strong grounds to challenge the landlord through the courts if necessary. If a landlord enters without permission (not saying MStar is) remember that this is trespass.

It is actually really important to understand I have suggest nothing illegal or near it. I treat my tenants like grown adults. I own the property if I am not about I can't fix things, address small problems or be aware of other property concerns such as neighbours. If as a tenant you can't handle having another adult about I think you better avoid renting. You have no grounds to bring a landlord to court for being at your door.
AS a tenant you have responsibilities too. The landlord is human and does not want any hassle. People here generally assume a landlord is actively trying to do things to annoy tenants. Most tenants have no idea how to manage a household or care for property so have short fuses about things. I learnt a long time ago to tell tenants I'll pay them to get the plumber in a day that fixes the job right. I have never paid a single one. It normally lets them understand the reality of getting things done. I don't drag my heals yet tenants think you can do things instantly but I'll let you know we don't have magic powers.

hmmm

MorningStar wrote:

It is actually really important to understand I have suggest nothing illegal or near it. I treat my tenants like grown adults. I own the property if I am not about I can't fix things, address small problems or be aware of other property concerns such as neighbours. If as a tenant you can't handle having another adult about I think you better avoid renting. You have no grounds to bring a landlord to court for being at your door.

There's no point trying to discuss this, you have your way of doing things and I'm just telling you what the law is. I've no doubt you probably are a decent landlord, but when you rent a property you effectively have no more rights of entry to that property than does a stranger off the street (except for emergencies and "reasonable notice").

There's a lot of amateur landlords in Ireland who are too nervous about their properties and think they have rights which don't exist - this is restricting the creation of proper tenant/landlord relationships like exist in other countries. Luckily for the past number of years I've had a professional landlord who knows the score, but I've had plenty of bad experiences - in particular I remember once coming home to find a relative of the landlady drinking tea in the kitchen after letting himself in to paint the back of the house. That cost our landlady a couple of weeks rent and a lot of grovelling.

Calina

MorningStar wrote:

I treat my tenants like grown adults.

does not really tie in well with

MorningStar wrote:

I make a point of calling to my property irregularly becasue of tenants behaviour.

hmmm wrote:

There's a lot of amateur landlords in Ireland who are too nervous about their properties and think they have rights which don't exist - this is restricting the creation of proper tenant/landlord relationships like exist in other countries.

This has been my experience too. There's something seriously wrong if I have to wind up getting legal advice because my landlord can't read the lease he signed properly.