So you've got Kings in the blinds...

fuzzbox

5/10 6-max Party

Villains are two regs. Both are good, opener has been open raising a fair bit, and when he does, his strategy of late is to open for a fairly big raise. He doesnt tend to call a reraise without a big hand (or maybe an implied odds hand).
Reraiser probably knows this, so his range is wider than normal, but I would still expect him to have a hand of reasonable quality, as opener is pretty tight.

Preflop
Opener opens in the CO for 55, reraiser makes it 175 on the button, hero has black KK in the SB

I feel that every action I take announces to the world that I have AA/KK. Whats the best move ? Call, reraise a little, push?

Does it matter?

--- Edit - opener has 1.5k, reraiser has 1k, I have 1k

Shortstack

What are the stack sizes?

How many times is that players raise to 175 AA?

If deepstacked is his range wide enough to push and put it down as one of those hands if he does have AA?

Is a better move if you are deepstacked not to put in a raise and see whether you are called proceeding with caution from out of position if you are? A bet on a non A flop will probably give you all the info you need from thereon in.

If not deepstacked then a push is fine.

fuzzbox

His calling range is not wide here if I come over the top - which is the point.
Equally though - if *I* just call, it kinda says the same thing, but lets him see a flop.

azzeretti

I like these not "black and white" situations.....ummmm. Not knowing the stack sizes but depending on them I would be reaching for a big enough reraise here and possibly pushing (depending on the stacks). Based on the openers past play you would be hoping he lays to a reraise and the inital reraiser calls with mid PP or A-rag.
However, the opener could have a decent hand and call which might leave 3 way action (which is fine in the bedroom, but not too hot if an A flops )

I'd be inclinded to make a bigish reraise here, hope the opener's butt cheeks don't hold up and let the raiser and yourself see a flop!
What happened?

Rnger

azzeretti wrote:

..I would be reaching for a big enough reraise here and possibly pushing (depending on the stacks). Based on the openers past play you would be hoping he lays to a reraise and the inital reraiser calls with mid PP or A-rag...

Your only getting called by AA or KK with a push/large reraise, theres no chance of mid PP or A-rag calling.

I'd raise here, possibly a min raise as much as i hate them. Hopefully the you will isolate the button and if he pushes.... are you capable of laying down KK preflop? If he calls I'd push a non-A board and hope to take it down, otherwise proceed with caution.

But i'm a tourney player and cant stand big pots oop

fuzzbox

I think everybody is missing the point.

I think that no matter what I do, that villain will know what I have. This will inhibit my chances of me making money from a worse hand.

I want to select the line that would be most confusing to a villain, and thus most profitable for the hero.

i.e. If *I* was button, and the SB cold called here, I would put him squarely on AA/KK and not put another cent into the pot without hitting a set (or having AA myself).
If *I* was button and the SB minraised, then I would probably lay down everything other than at least KK, but even that might hit the muck.
If *I* was button and the SB raised big, then again I probably lay down a lot of hands.

I wonder is pushing the best option, as it might let him think that I'm trying to steal a steal, and maybe have something like AK.

Anyway - I made it 450, opener folded, and button thought for ages, and then folded - later saying "JJ no good" in the chat.

I probably would have folded a push, and I really hate that line, but I didnt want opener to tag along.

I think I should push.

cardshark202

I think a push is your best option here as, depending on your table image it could look like a steal. Though this would depend on the button as you may only get called by AA here.

If button is loose, then he may call with QQ+ and maybe even JJ. If button is tight, then a re-raise might allow you to get away from the hand if the button has AA.

I think a push though will be good for your table image.

FastMachine

If you have a good instinct that the button will reraise with a wide range of hands because of his image of the co, then pushing is ok. He'll fold everything but AA and in the long run you'll make money here. You'll win around $230 every time he folds and if you think he'll fold often enough (when he doesn't have AA, about 4 out of 5 times?), this is +EV. Folding is a good option too.

Like you say, everyone will have a very good idea of what you have if you just call. I think this is probably the worst option as you'll only end up all in on the flop against a hand that beats you, AA or QQ-1010 that's made a set.

Running Bing

I was leaning towards reraising to knock opening raiser out and get some info on reraiser but the more I think about Id push. Most likely hands are AQ,AK maybe even AJ and your favourite against those hands, AA is a possibility but reraiser is most likely making a stand and the opening raiser has been raising a lot.

ianmc38

I think a push is the only way of ever getting paid here. Cold calling, min-raise etc, he knows immediately that you're on AA/KK.

Hectorjelly

cardshark202 wrote:

I think a push though will be good for your table image.

Pushing and getting called with 63o is good for your table image, not KK

Hectorjelly

Imagine the exact same situation, but you have A2o. Whats your play?

cardshark202

Hectorjelly wrote:

Pushing and getting called with 63o is good for your table image, not KK

Yeah i see your point, but I am making the assumption that you wont get called very often so push may look a little 'crazy', leaving the button folding a hand like JJ or TT and wondering whether he should have called.

cardshark202

Hectorjelly wrote:

Imagine the exact same situation, but you have A2o. Whats your play?

If you have strong reads you can make a re-raise with any two. Going on the info given then you can indeed steal the pot with rags.

Hectorjelly

cardshark202 wrote:

Yeah i see your point, but I am making the assumption that you wont get called very often so push may look a little 'crazy', leaving the button folding a hand like JJ or TT and wondering whether he should have called.

Yes I didnt think of that. I still think pushing with 63o and showing would be better though!

Hectorjelly

cardshark202 wrote:

If you have strong reads you can make a re-raise with any two. Going on the info given then you can indeed steal the pot with rags.

You dont just have any two, you have an ace which makes it much less likely you are up against AA; and if you are up against opponents who will only stack off preflop with AA and maybe KK this is a profitable situation to be in. Ive never actually tried it though, theres a old thread on 2+2 HSNL forum on it.

cardshark202

Hectorjelly wrote:

You dont just have any two, you have an ace which makes it much less likely you are up against AA; and if you are up against opponents who will only stack off preflop with AA and maybe KK this is a profitable situation to be in. Ive never actually tried it though, theres a old thread on 2+2 HSNL forum on it.

Good point. I'll have to have a look at that thread. I can see how moving with any ace would be an extremely profitbale move.

RoundTower

Hectorjelly wrote:

Yes I didnt think of that. I still think pushing with 63o and showing would be better though!

It looks like you have to do this from time to time if you really feel "every action I take announces to the world that I have AA/KK". If you get KK in the SB and there is a raise and a reraise in front of you and neither player is particularly tight and you think "ugh, I hate this spot", you must be doing something wrong.

fuzzbox

RoundTower wrote:

It looks like you have to do this from time to time if you really feel "every action I take announces to the world that I have AA/KK". If you get KK in the SB and there is a raise and a reraise in front of you and neither player is particularly tight and you think "ugh, I hate this spot", you must be doing something wrong.

I dont *hate* this spot. I definitely figure to have the best hand, but I dont know how to make any *more* money from the spot.