Krav Maga

Ph3n0m

Just wondering which of the following to go to for instruction?

http://www.kravmaga.ie/

or

http://www.kravmagaireland.com/

And another point is why is one so much cheaper then the other?

Roper

My mate did the kravmagaireland one with Patrick Cumiskey. Said it was okay, but not really worth the money. Then again he's used to training hard and throwing digs etc.
What he did say was that it opened his mind to some of the dirty shots you can throw. TBH though if he had sparred with me for 20 minutes he could have learned that, me being a cheat and all

That was a weekend course. Said it was fine for him cos he had a base on which to work but he didn't see how anyone else was going to be able to get it to work if they'd no background.

Others may have a different view though, and some people hav come away from these courses raving about them.

Step forward Millionaire!!:) Gerry your input is needed!

Millionaire

Roper wrote:

That was a weekend course. Said it was fine for him cos he had a base on which to work but he didn't see how anyone else was going to be able to get it to work if they'd no background.

Others may have a different view though, and some people hav come away from these courses raving about them.

Step forward Millionaire!!:) Gerry your input is needed!

From day 1, I never liked those weekend courses. I never could see, how people could remember all the stuff they learned. Sure their fun, and all that.

Like I said, I had many years kickboxing (and other MA styles too) when I start, a good foundation, and it took me quite a while (many months in fact) to remember and use the techniques. and I love this stuff man, I would be thinking about it all day in my mind.

So if it took me months to even remember.

Then a few years later I went to Israel....

That was a real humbling experience, my skills were crap compared to what I saw over there. I was really taken aback...really was.

Then I realised, this concept of short courses, is an idea borrowed from a some USA instructors who market short courses in SD. Tim Larkin
look at http://www.tftgroup.com/ mixed with Bill Kipp Adreline Stress Training.

This is where the idea was "borrowed" from, and so KM became know in Ireland as some sort of fast food self defence system.

Well...thats not the way Krav Maga is supposed to be trained. Not at all!

The guys i met from Europe, Poland, USA and of course the Israelis , they do not do short courses. These guys train like any fighter would some traing 6 -7 nights a week for hours. strikes, throws, locks, ground, weapons etc etc.

I told then about weekend and short courses, and the Israeli instructors almost laughed me out of the place.

Any of the Close Quater Comabt /RBSD systems say you find 2 or 3 maximun strikes you like and you train them 1000s and 1000s of times. and these experts back up their RBSD with boxing, thai, wresting etc etc.

Even today after years of doing it, I am still trying to perfect by rear cross, left hook combo. Mastery takes years.

I think all these courses are about putting paying bums on seats so to speak.
(Theres more than KM people teaching them too)

Personally, I just do not believe in the short course format for begineers.

If you have experience, sure you can pick up techniques faster, but not beginners.

Look at me, years training, and then I come to Thailand, and I get thrown on my butt over and over my little Thai fighters. As I said already, I know I have a weakness, so I have to train clinch real hard. and I will not learn to do clinch and hold my own, over a weekend, if ya see my point!

Questions People?????

Ph3n0m

Millionaire

You have changed your tune about the classes?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-111489.html

Whats the difference between two full days and 12 2 hour classes?

Millionaire

Sure have!

Through out history men have given their lives for the freedom to make free choices...
as in the freedon to change ones opinion... :-)

If your following my other posts this week , you will see why I changed.

I do not change the opinion that one with experience, can pick up techniques faster. see when I was posting all that, I sort of forgot that I had many years experience!

Actually I am after looking at the date on that post. Someone else who was getting a bit of flack over KM, wrote it and asked met to post it under my name. being a bit green about the whole thing... I said ok, to that and a few other posts. Yes that was 2003 I remember that well now.

As I said it was my training in Israel that I really learned what KM was, plus a few other things I realised recently.

columok

Sure Millionaire called myself and others "cheap" cause we thought that the prices for such short courses were ridiculous...:D

Once upon a time I talked rubbish on the internet too talking about sparring and competition being bad for the soul and technique being able to be practised in isolation.

Life is about making mistakes, moving on and learning.

My advice: Have a grounding in the three ranges of mixed martial arts before you take on KM. This doesnt mean train MMA by and means. Do some boxing or some thai boxing. Perhaps do a few Judo classes. Once you have a solid delivery system THEN and only then can you consider learning foul tactics.

Again if you cant land a jab to a pad in a safe training environment what makes you think you can strike a throat in a horrible adrenaline street environment. If you cant keep your feet (not your ass) on the ground in a wrestling gym what makes you think you can sit tight in that street headlock for long enough to tear the guys balls off.

Anyhoo rant over.

Ph3n0m

absolutely - changing your mind is allowed on these boards

But you are right, people with experience, especially (IMO) those who have experience of confrontation/fighting/training do tend to pick up things quicker

However do you feel there is absolutely no benefit to anyone in the weekend class/short hours per week?

That said what would be a good system for the 30 year old male (with no experience, save crap back when he was a teenager) -

(damn SBG moving to Tallaght aswell )

Millionaire

I think they are a very good introduction, and if further regular and consistent training is done, yes they are of benefit.

Sure some people will learn things and be able to use it.

From my experience teaching my own self defence course last year, I am a perfectionist and if I promise someone I can teach them to SD in 12 weeks, and they cannot do it, then I am not doing a good job. Your only as good as the weakest student in the class.

Of course they are fun etc.

To really use a technique you need to be at Unconscious Competence , that takes a long long time and lots of sweat, training and even bruises!

I think to get techniques learned well, you got to glove up and go for it man, good sparring and rolling to complement the SD techniques.

If you cannot get in and even do some boxing and land a few punches when training, and take a few, how can you do anything else!

Baggio...

Hey all,

I'm not trying to sound negative, or slag anyone off here. I have a great deal of respect for K.M. But I saw a few T.V. demos from: http://www.kravmagaireland.com/

And in my personal opinion - I was not very impressed. If they are still on the site check 'em out, and see if you think the techs are well executed. And are realistic for a stressful street scenario.
However, I have not seen or heard anything about the .ie K.M. so I can't really make any comment.

My advise is always check out a few different places, and stick with the one you like.

Good luck, Baggio.


PS - Also, I would avoid any "weekend courses" as Millionaire said. Unless they were from someone like Geoff Thompson, Lee Morrison etc. Real training takes years of practive. I've been at it for years now, and I consider my skills very average.

Millionaire

Baggio... wrote:

And in my personal opinion - I was not very impressed. If they are still on the site check 'em out, and see if you think the techs are well executed. And are Also, I would avoid any "weekend courses" as Millionaire said. Unless they were from someone like Geoff Thompson, Lee Morrison etc. Real training takes years of practive. I've been at it for years now, and I consider my skills very average.

Good point Baggio.

I have been at it for years too, and I also consider my skills very average too!
well said!


I have seen some people acting as assistant instructors on these weekend courses, who never trained in any MA before, never gloved up and sparred, and never bothered showing up to often to even train in KM classes, on these courses, strutting about like they were the reincarnation of Bruce Lee with a 10the degree black belt, pontificating, and offering training from their many years of experience...not!

they were only there to try and chat up any free women there.

That used to disgust me so much, and people paying good money for the likes of that. That is why I turned so much against all of this.

I spoke to Geoff Thompson once, years back maybe 1999, and I asked him for advice on my training which was 3 -4 nights of kickboxing with a few dirty tricks back then. Geoff said to me, that when he was working doors still, they pretty much trained "for rolling around outside the chipper" as he puts it, Full Time. He said it was mainly Boxing, Wrestling and Muay Thai training they did.

Also I remember him saying, he though he was doing great skills wise, and then we went for a session at Birmingham wrestling club, which was the "most humbling experience of this life" and described this black belt judo test as "the hardest thing he ever did" and was going to quit only his wife was watch and told him off!!!

I know what he means my being humble... i m going through it daily over here! (though I am starting to do a wee bit of humbling myself....he he lol)

Baggio...

Hey M,

Great minds think a like!.....LOL:D

I only have talked to Geoff once over the phone, and he's a total gent. A Very genuine type of guy.

Later,

R.

MaxBax

Ph3n0m wrote:

absolutely - changing your mind is allowed on these boards

But you are right, people with experience, especially (IMO) those who have experience of confrontation/fighting/training do tend to pick up things quicker

However do you feel there is absolutely no benefit to anyone in the weekend class/short hours per week?

That said what would be a good system for the 30 year old male (with no experience, save crap back when he was a teenager) -

(damn SBG moving to Tallaght aswell )

ph3n0m i've never been able to figure out your motivations. why are you intereset in SD/MA and why do you want to train?