Sound Engineering Interview

Chardee MacDennis

I am thinking of applying for the Sound Engineering Course in STC and Pulse and was doing a bit of research into it and apparently STC will be looking for a portfolio? what should that include as i havent got much experience and dont have any material at the moment.

QuadLeo

Where is STC? I know Pulse run a great course. Their interview is pretty basic. They're just looking for a general idea of your interests and abilities and stuff.

Chardee MacDennis

Sound Training Centre in TBMC. Do Pulse require much experience and/or a portfolio. i am going to the open day next weekend but don't want to look like a total idiot!!

QuadLeo

Oh, TBMC. I've heard that it's not the best. It's meant to be great for live sound and stuff, but from my own experience Pulse is great. They cover everything. You get a lot of experience with loads of equipment in the studio and stuff. The interview is pretty basic. They don't look for a portfolio but they do ask what experience you have ie. qualifications, other courses, leaving cert, studio experience etc. But it's not vital to have experience. Interest alone is enough to get in. There are people in pulse who have never touched a mic before.

BadAcidStudios

I did the Sound engineering course in the TBMC. A load of ****e when i did it. The amount of time we spent standing outside locked classrooms and waiting on people was unreal. We never really got to use the Really great equipment and when we did it was in groups too large that you didnt get the hands on experience you needed. Maybe things have changed. When you consider the amount of students there and the zero jobs in the industry its pretty depressing. Before doing this course you should really spend some time looking into potential jobs at the end of it. Otherwise you would be better off using the money you would have spent on the course to buy yourself a basic/decent homestudio and buy yourself a few good books. You can also learn alot from the internet. get recording bands and making loads of demos. Get your own portfolio together. Even with the city and guilds diploma you get after finishing the Sound engineering course, its not enough to get you a job. No studio is gonna hire you becasue you send in your cv with that on it. They are gonna expect alot more on top of that. Try get experience in as many studios as you can. Work for free, whatever it takes. You have to be prepared to do what your other fellow students arent. Also, try and earn the money yourself to do this course. When i did it there were so many people there who got mumsy and dadsy to pay for it. these people didnt give a **** and just got in the way and filled up space. if you pay for it yourself you will work hard and respect the time you are there

Or, just go to a studio and ask to be a tape op/ tea boy You probably wont get paid but you are getting a free education and experience. This experience is probably better and will help you get a real job. I dont know anyone who is doing anything since they left the course. I have seen placements like this advertised in dublin before. I would certainly let someone hang out in my studio if they wanted to learn a thing or two ( im moving my setup over to germany so thats not a real offer :-), unless your German

There is nothing in these courses that you cant learn yourself. Obviously the use of their equipment is probably the best aspect of it but as i have said, you could invest in your own stuff. Do your homework, dont just apply without reading up on the course and find out what real potential jobs are out there.

So what have i got out of it?
Well, i did learn alot and i got to use some equipment i hadnt used before but most of that stuff isnt used anymore anyway.
Equipment seems to become outdated very quickly. I have invested in a pretty decent setup now and i work with bands on my own but it is not my main income. It took 2 years of hardwork and a bankloan to get where im at now. For myself though, i could have saved myself alot of money and bought a few books from respected authors.

I just hope people are realisitc about job prospects afterwards. Sure its cool to do a sound engineering course for a year but its alot of money and i dont know anyone working proffesionaly with it. Even people that have done the pulse course. Studios are closing down for feck sake. Also, it will take you years to start making any decent money. Better off putting some time into getting other qualifications to get a job with real prospects and do the Engineering in any free time you have until you feel you can afford to do it full time.

I have learnt more in the last 2 years doing things myself than i learnt doing the course. Maybe try doing a partime introduction course somewhere to learnn the basics, a good starting point.

I would say the the live sound course in the music centre is a pretty good option though if your into that side of things. there are jobs there and it covers many different angles.

Goodluck man, i hope i havent discouraged you from doing anything. i just want you to spend sometime looking at things a different way.

I have two close friends who also did these courses. One did the STC course with me and the other did pulse. Both are working normal 9 to 5 jobs now and starting courses in completely different subjects soon. Take of that what you will

Chardee MacDennis

on primetime today they did a special on tbmc and the owner claims ~60% of graduates find work, would this be true? also said 90% received Distinctions??

jtsuited

saw that documentary, and that must have been a pure lie that that guy told about employment. While '90%' of the graduates may be employed i'd say fcuk all of them got jobs anywhere near music technology!!!

Sgt. Politeness

Ive never heard of anyone getting a job from either of these courses. Ive done the pulse course, along wth 3 other people i know, and none are working in SE now. There just arent any jobs. Pulse in particular are a total rip off. Such an expensive course and for absolutely nothing. I wouldnt waste my time if i were you.

BadAcidStudios

I just want to add. It has been 4 years since i did the course in the TBMC, alot may have changed. I dont want to be giving people a unfair image of what it is like now. Try and get in to the open day and have a look for yourself.

I find it very hard to see how 60% of the students find work. WHy? Thats a **** load of people to be finding work. Where are they getting these jobs that dont exist? Working in a music shop is not a industry job :-)

Aslo, how does the TBMC get to know about all this employment. 60% sounds very very high to me. I know of 3 people working in the industry after finishing the course and believe me you could get a newspaper today and find a unqualified job in Dublin that pays alot more and has a much more stable income.

I would like to stress that any decision anyone makes should be a informed decision. Look for job opportunities on the net and see if you can find jobs. Go to the open day and ask them questions about what jobs are out there.

60% of the students finding work could mean anything. A few hours a week or whatever. Alot of the teachers are past pupils. Mmm, so not off working in studios i see. infact i would imagine that the best chance people have in getting a job is actually finding a position in the college after you finish. The TBMC propably hires 60% of their studens for a day :-)

It is a sad thing to say but i believe the only stable Money making jobs in the industry are the Actual Colleges themselves. These are the only people making money. I just wouldnt go by everything they say. Of course they are going to say there is a high employment rate but i would imagine 60% is really stretching it.
Also to be honest, and this is the sad thing. I doubt even 60% of the people my year even searched for a job in the industry.

Chardee MacDennis

is this coz there were no jobs or they werent bothered?
also from going to both courses open day they both said that at the end of the course you could walk into a live SE job is this true? TBMC were quite frank about job prospects while pulse implied there wouldnt be a problem getting a job you just wont get paid much and work crap hours.

so realistically if i do, say, TBMC for 2 years (maybe 3) how hard will it be to find a job where i can actually live off it? and how much spare time will i have to work during the courses?

BadAcidStudios

Call_me_al wrote:

is this coz there were no jobs or they werent bothered?
also from going to both courses open day they both said that at the end of the course you could walk into a live SE job is this true? TBMC were quite frank about job prospects while pulse implied there wouldnt be a problem getting a job you just wont get paid much and work crap hours.

so realistically if i do, say, TBMC for 2 years (maybe 3) how hard will it be to find a job where i can actually live off it? and how much spare time will i have to work during the courses?

"is this coz there were no jobs or they werent bothered?"
A bit of both i suppose.

Ok buddy and this is the truth of it. If you do 3 years in the music centre you obviously have money to burn. How are you going to live for 3 years.
Its 4500 to do the fulltime course for 1 year (Studio recording)

After these "3" years you will have as much a chance of getting a job as somone who has a done a few sessions in a studio. Someone who stays in college for 3 years doing sound engineering sounds like someone who is scared of the real world. The fact that you have 3 years college experience on your Cv will mean F*ckall to anyone.

So after "3" years you will start looking for a job and if you are one of the few people lucky enough to find one you would be lucky to start earning a wage thats comparable to someone working in McDonalds. That IF you get a decent amount of hours.

There are other ways to go about it as i have said.

get a decent paying job. Work 9-5 Mon to friday. Call into as many studios you can each week and ask them can you sit in and help out on sessions for free. Start at the big studios then work your way down. Clean floors, clean tiolets, make tea, wash their fecking cars, WHATEVER IT TAKES.

This way you will be earning money from your job, afterwork and weekends you spend in a real working studio with real clients and workloads. This is a free education and also you are making contacts and building relationships.

By the time all the students from next years Sound engineering course have finished you will already have hundreds of hours experience in a real studio, SOMETHING YOU CAN PUT ON YOUR CV, you will be 4500 better off financially and you will have made some good contacts.

Please Please Please, check around before you sign that check.
Also, already planning on doing 3 years of sound engineering is a bit strange. You wont beat the problem of no jobs by ignoring it and hoping 3 years in college will make it go away. You have to be a blood thirsty pirarate to stand out from the bunch. Go on, do what nobody esle is prepared to do


Also you asked : "how much spare time will i have to work during the courses"
Mate, if you are serious about this and you should be after spending 4500 you should fill anyfree time getting into the studio. If you dont, someone else will. And that Mo Fo will get whatever job you could have had at the end of your course.

Chardee MacDennis

well i am not already planning three years but it is an option. ah crap too much too think about... thanks for all the advice, i may be back for more.

BadAcidStudios

Hey man, i dont want to discourage you. Sound engineering is obviously a veryinteresting career. There are jobs there, only very few.
It all depends on what you want. I think most people when they think of sound engineering they think of a well paid job. This just isnt the case, well for 99% of engineers. Just look at the way studio prices are constantly coming down and offering new deals.
Things have changed so much recently and many studios are closing down.
Maybe dont just focus on a Studio career. If you look hard enough you will find a niche you can explore.
If you have the money then and you have an interest in Sound engineering than do the music centre course. i think it could be a rewarding experience if you dont expect too much after it.

I dont wanna discourage you, I use my sound engineering everyday, i have invested alot of money into it. I also have a steady 9 to 5 job though. Best of both worlds really. If i had started working as an engineer after leaving the music centre i would not have the studio i have now, if you understand what i mean.

sei046

Very few, if any of the great sound engineers i know have a cert. Spend the few years on the road or in the studio. I learnt everything i know that way and i laugh at the stuff these courses teach half the time. You would be surprised how much easier you will find it if you go out and do it yourself. You will remember it better if ya mucked it up once or twice

Chardee MacDennis

sei046 wrote:

Very few, if any of the great sound engineers i know have a cert. Spend the few years on the road or in the studio. I learnt everything i know that way and i laugh at the stuff these courses teach half the time. You would be surprised how much easier you will find it if you go out and do it yourself. You will remember it better if ya mucked it up once or twice

ok but how do you get into studios or onto the road without much experience?

Sunn

i did the STC course last year and never got my place for this year (its only 2yrs btw) saw that documentary 20 of the best in second year? hmm..

anyway.. i learned an awfull lot.. I;m doing music for a documentary atm and a short film and of course making my own music.. so to say job prospects are nil is wrong.. but they are hard to come by.. particularly in studio engineering as it was mentioned studios are closing down due to the advancements in home recording facilities available.

really havea good think about it mate..

sorry if i trampled old ground but i think it was neccessary to voice my opinion..

bye

Chardee MacDennis

everyones opinion is very much welcomed... thanks - good to see someone who has got work out of it. How did you find the course? would you recommend it? and finally are you freelance or working for a company?

ST*

I did the STC Course a long time ago - when everything was recorded on Analogue Tape! Jobs were hard to come by then too, and now I am earning a good living in a totally different career having retrained.

BadAcidStudios has given some good advice.

A lot in this country depends on Who you know as well as what you know.

You should ask yourself a few questions...

What hours are you prepared to work? Do you want a 9-5 job?

Are you prepared to travel?

What wages do you expect and for how long are you prepared to be paid crap wages?

If you don't necessarily want to work in a studio, there is related work in TV, Radio, Film, most of the Colleges / I.T's would have Technicians responsible for setting up AV equipmnet for lecture's / conferences etc.

Although you may not necessarily get a job straight out of the course, it may show a potential employer that you are serious about a career in the industry and might help you get a foot in the door before someone who has no course.

Also at least when you go looking for work, even as a tea boy, you will have a
foundation of knowledge on which to build.

Buy a few books, get a basic PC software package, some second hand equipment and experiment at home. Offer to record local bands for nothing as experience, and as you get better, start to charge them.

However be prepared that you may end up with it as a hobby.

Good luck whatever you decide.

BadAcidStudios

Sunn wrote:

i did the STC course last year and never got my place for this year (its only 2yrs btw) saw that documentary 20 of the best in second year? hmm..

anyway.. i learned an awfull lot.. I;m doing music for a documentary atm and a short film and of course making my own music.. so to say job prospects are nil is wrong.. but they are hard to come by.. particularly in studio engineering as it was mentioned studios are closing down due to the advancements in home recording facilities available.

really havea good think about it mate..

sorry if i trampled old ground but i think it was neccessary to voice my opinion..

bye

Mate, did YOU do the STC or did YOUR MATE do it. In another post you said your "friend" had done it and didnt get into the 2nd year.

Also, you seem to be looking for other courses and colleges teaching Sound engineering/ Music technology. Why? You said you learned an awful lot, But not enough so it seems. do you feel your 4500 and year was a worthwhile investment considering you are still looking for other colleges? getting more educated wont make the problem go away. Make a stand, make a plan and go fro it.

I know there are niche jobs out there, few real paying ones though.
You dont need to spend 4500 for 1 year in the STC to get these jobs. Anyone with a good professional portfolio is in a great position. I come across many people looking for audio work for websites and short films. These are the stepping stones you take. You probably wont get paid but thats just life. Its something real to put on your CV and Portfolio.

My point being, there are other alternatives than just handing over 4500euros blindly.
Get the best paying 9 to 5 job you can get. Make a plan of one year to stay in it.(lenght of the STC course)
Take out a loan, or save.
Get a few good books, invest the 4500(STC Fee) euros into a studio setup.
INVEST ALL YOUR TIME, get a good portfolio together. Try and get as many hours working for free in Studios.
The city and guilds diploma is not worth the paper its printed on. "not in the real world anyway"

And "if" at the end of this you cant find work like all the other students, well at least you have a great studio at home that you will always have to continue on with. Next year if you cant get rid of the feeling that you really wanna do this course well then have another look

BadAcidStudios

Call_me_al wrote:

ok but how do you get into studios or onto the road without much experience?

Hey Al :-) I have told you how a few times already. Get a list of addresses together. Dont send letters, they will probably just end up in the bin. These guys would get alot of these letters. You have to stand out from the bunch, do what the other lazy gits arent prepared to do.
you are going around telling them that you want experience, that you wont leave them after a few days. Nobody wants some lad turning up when he wants and just leaving. This is their business remember. Tell them you are willing to help out for free and you are very serious about it.

If you call into enough studios and really make a huge effort you will find one that will take you in. Dont quit after a few negative repsonses.

Chardee MacDennis

BadAcidStudios wrote:

Hey Al :-) I have told you how a few times already.

sorry man - all just a little overwhelming - but once again thanks for the advice!
also any books you can recommend? i found a list here :
http://www.audio.dcu.ie/selected_bibliography.htm
but they could probably be a bit out dated..

BadAcidStudios

http://www.modrec.com/index.html I have the book that is related to this website.
The book i have covers everything we did in the course theorywise.

You have to understand that as soon as a book is printed it is dated. Why, because there are constant advances in technology and equipment. The basics are always the same though. The physics of the world we live in:-).

During the STC, our lectures consited of the lecturer reading out text and us taking notes. I found this a waste of time. This kind of teaching does not work with me personally. It may with you.
Anyway, i just felt the time taking notes was a waste. We did discuss things but i felt we spent so much time actually just writing down what we were hearing. Why not just tell us what book to buy? :-(

Anyway, This book covers everything that you would be asked in a city and guilds exam.

If you are really interested, go to www.soundonsound.com and register. The forum is filled with people who really know their stuff. You can ask about education and careers there. You might be even more disheartened there though. Great site, deffo check it out. I have seen many other books recommended there. I suppose most of them pretty much contain the same info.



You should really organise to have a chat with the STC course co-ordinator. Ask them questions, as i said it has been 4 years since i did the course. Ask them to descibe a few different routes that could see you land yourself a good job. Ask about any good positions past students have found. They will be happy you are showing some interest. Dont be afraid to ask questions, its your future. I dont wanna stand here and try and convince you not to do the course. I did learn alot when i did it. I just want you to know that there are other ways of getting the end result. i hope it all goes well mate. Dont be getting stressed out with all this.

Give the STC a call and organise a meeting. PEACE

Sunn

BadAcidStudios wrote:

Mate, did YOU do the STC or did YOUR MATE do it. In another post you said your "friend" had done it and didnt get into the 2nd year.

Also, you seem to be looking for other courses and colleges teaching Sound engineering/ Music technology. Why? You said you learned an awful lot, But not enough so it seems. do you feel your 4500 and year was a worthwhile investment considering you are still looking for other colleges? getting more educated wont make the problem go away. Make a stand, make a plan and go fro it.

I know there are niche jobs out there, few real paying ones though.
You dont need to spend 4500 for 1 year in the STC to get these jobs. Anyone with a good professional portfolio is in a great position. I come across many people looking for audio work for websites and short films. These are the stepping stones you take. You probably wont get paid but thats just life. Its something real to put on your CV and Portfolio.

My point being, there are other alternatives than just handing over 4500euros blindly.
Get the best paying 9 to 5 job you can get. Make a plan of one year to stay in it.(lenght of the STC course)
Take out a loan, or save.
Get a few good books, invest the 4500(STC Fee) euros into a studio setup.
INVEST ALL YOUR TIME, get a good portfolio together. Try and get as many hours working for free in Studios.
The city and guilds diploma is not worth the paper its printed on. "not in the real world anyway"

And "if" at the end of this you cant find work like all the other students, well at least you have a great studio at home that you will always have to continue on with. Next year if you cant get rid of the feeling that you really wanna do this course well then have another look

yes i did do the course and yes i want to pursue my education to a higher degree level. Just because you didnt get the best out of it or feel you were cheated doesnt mean its still that way. Alot of people have home studios but I dont feel like recording half assed bands who sing out of key and time..do you?

And yes the course isnt worth 4,500.. but considering courses in the uk are double that and fairly average its actually quite good. Like everything you get what you put into it. A book is no match for the chance to talk to someone who has worked and can give you useful worth while information about the industry and business.

my mates in second year are setting up a production company and have access to some of the best equipment in the country. I dont see many people doing that out of their home for 4500.. so i guess its a double edged sword

BadAcidStudios

"A book is no match for the chance to talk to someone who has worked and can give you useful worth while information about the industry and business."

I never said it was. I said you can get books that cover the whole course Theorywise. I dont think a book is equal or better than the course. i never said that. What i did say is that you can get books that cover the course and you can get hands on experience in real studios.

Also, dont for 1 minute tell me you didnt record crappy bands while you were doing the STC course. While i was there we used to record in Elecktra. You didnt choose the bands, they were paying customers. Jeez, we even had 4 young lads in thinking they were the next boyzone.

"my mates in second year are setting up a production company and have access to some of the best equipment in the country. I dont see many people doing that out of their home "


good for them, but what relevance does this have.

Sunn

BadAcidStudios wrote:

"my mates in second year are setting up a production company and have access to some of the best equipment in the country. I dont see many people doing that out of their home "


good for them, but what relevance does this have.

it shows after a year and a half they have the oppertunity, ability, knowledge to do this. I think thats relevant

to be honest mate i dont see what your problem is this was my original post

i did the STC course last year and never got my place for this year (its only 2yrs btw) saw that documentary 20 of the best in second year? hmm..

anyway.. i learned an awfull lot.. I;m doing music for a documentary atm and a short film and of course making my own music.. so to say job prospects are nil is wrong.. but they are hard to come by.. particularly in studio engineering as it was mentioned studios are closing down due to the advancements in home recording facilities available.

really havea good think about it mate..

sorry if i trampled old ground but i think it was neccessary to voice my opinion..

bye

to which you replied

Mate, did YOU do the STC or did YOUR MATE do it. In another post you said your "friend" had done it and didnt get into the 2nd year.

Also, you seem to be looking for other courses and colleges teaching Sound engineering/ Music technology. Why? You said you learned an awful lot, But not enough so it seems. do you feel your 4500 and year was a worthwhile investment considering you are still looking for other colleges? getting more educated wont make the problem go away. Make a stand, make a plan and go fro it.

I know there are niche jobs out there, few real paying ones though.
You dont need to spend 4500 for 1 year in the STC to get these jobs. Anyone with a good professional portfolio is in a great position. I come across many people looking for audio work for websites and short films. These are the stepping stones you take. You probably wont get paid but thats just life. Its something real to put on your CV and Portfolio.

My point being, there are other alternatives than just handing over 4500euros blindly.
Get the best paying 9 to 5 job you can get. Make a plan of one year to stay in it.(lenght of the STC course)
Take out a loan, or save.
Get a few good books, invest the 4500(STC Fee) euros into a studio setup.
INVEST ALL YOUR TIME, get a good portfolio together. Try and get as many hours working for free in Studios.
The city and guilds diploma is not worth the paper its printed on. "not in the real world anyway"

And "if" at the end of this you cant find work like all the other students, well at least you have a great studio at home that you will always have to continue on with. Next year if you cant get rid of the feeling that you really wanna do this course well then have another look
Last edited by BadAcidStudios : Today at 09:51.

have a word mate..seriously

BadAcidStudios

"to which you replied" - hey Sunn, yeah sorry about that. I can see how that might have been a bit of a surprise reaction from Myself. I didnt really mean it as a personal attack, i never re-read what i have written.

I just think maybe in this one instance it would have been better if you had told al that even after doing the year at the STC you where still planning on going on to do a degree. just to emphasie that the STC is not a golden doorway to employment.

Im not bitter that i didnt get the most out of the STC - Its not their fault there are not many job opportuinites that pay. I just wanted to give my experience of the course i did 4 years ago. I have said repeatedly that thigs may have changed and that the person he should be talking to is the course co-ordinator.

I have just been giving my personal views on the other options this guy could take. I made a 2 year plan, two years ago :-) Got the best paid job i could find with no qualifications, Took out loans and got myself a pretty nice studio.
Now, in 2 weeks my loans are finally paid off and i have a 20grand studio that is completly mine, not many 26year old engineers can say that. I feel it would have been IMPOSSIBLE to have the studio i own now if i had tried to work in the industry for the last 2 years . I think its unfair to say i might not have put the effort in while i did the course. I cant break down locked classroom doors and yes, i find it hard to get the hands on experience through trial and error while there are 10 other people sitting beside me at a desk. Must stress again, this was 4 YEARS AGO.

As for the price of the course, you are right, it is more expensive to do these courses in England. Also, 4500 is not alot of money for someone who is a success and finds gainful employment afterwards. It is alot of money for someone who cant though. Speaking of course prices, im starting a course in Hamburg in 2 months, 1500 for 1 month :-(

---

Not audio related

I just think in todays life, which is so expensive with House prices and families, sound engineering is a very risky career financially, especially now with opportunities getting less and less.
I love engineering and it would always be my dream to do it full time and earn enough money to survive on. I just dont want to risk it. Most studios are in debt, always upgrading their desks to meet the marketplace and also at the same time lowering their prices. how long can this continue. I bit the bullet and decided i would prefere a job were i know i get a monthly wage so i could enjoy and relax in my own studio without these worries. I am REALLY happy with the choices i have made since completing the course. Now im going to chase after business in my spare time and try and start gaining back some money from my investment. If i make money cool, if i dont, well ill just have to enjoy my studio myslef which is not a hard thing to do :-) looking forward to the challenge all the same

All the best to you Sunn, i hope the degree goes well and your mates make a success of the production company, im deffo not a hater. Just wanted al to see the 2 sides of the argument. Peace to all gods children :-)

Sunn

i love happy endings take care