Arsenals Inconsistency

Dont Ban Me

Why are we so inconsistant?

We have the players and although we're missing so many due to injuries currently we shouldnt be losing to Blackburn! No disrespect to Blackburn but with a club such as we are and hoping for European and domestic glory and every season, we should be beating teams such as Blackburn!

People say we're a young team and this is a building season, but after a display of such pedigree and maturity against Madrid, why cant we bring that kind of form home?

You're proably thinking that the players find it harder to get themselves up for the games, but when you're a professional footballer earning so much money and doing so much training there shouldnt be the question of getting up for a game!! Its just so damn frustrating!! :mad:

Lemlin

I'll admit the Arsenal of old should be beating Blackburn. Not the Arsenal of new, who are in transition. Blackburn aren't an easy team to beat either, especially at home. Let's not forget they've already beaten Man United twice this season. Liverpool and Chelsea both have to visit Ewood yet.

wheres me jumpa

Ashley Cole has been a huge loss. The loss of Viera and with so many many other players missing parts of the season it hasnt been easy for Arsenal. Arsenal in full flight are a joy to watch.

I worry about where the game is heading. The likes of Blackburn and Bolton are employing physical games that are built on a solid defence. Teams like Chelsea and Liverpool are doing much the same. Not a very attractive style of football. Outside United and Chelsea nobody has scored more than 39 league goals this season.

My worry would be that the likes of United and Arsenal will attempt to mimic this in the summer with their signings. I really do feel this is where the English game is heading. The Italian league springs to mind. With so many foreign coaches it was only a matter of time really.

Im not sure if Arsenal or United will be capable of this kind of football. It may take a change of manager to bring about this change. I for one would love to see football come out on top next season. The year Arsenal romped home to the title they were a joy to watch and they played football the current champions can only dream of playing.

mike65

I keep reading of certain players not being "up for it" when its an away game oop north.

Mike.

The Muppet

mike65 wrote:

I keep reading of certain players not being "up for it" when its an away game oop north.

Mike.

Aye to coin a phrase they don't like it up em.

Jivin Turkey

Ljungberg and Pires have both been very poor this year. Pires is finished IMO. Ljungberg had about ten goals in the league by this time last year, he hasn't scored one this year.

They've also had chronic problems at the back. Not only is Cole out, so is Clichy, which is a pity because I would have liked to see him have an extended run in the team. Campbell is another one who is finished IMO. It's a sad state of affairs when Arsenal are actually missing Pascal Cygan.

And then of course the absence of Vieira. None of Arsenal's more experienced players, with the arguable exception of Henry, have stepped up to the mark to be leaders in the side.

Dont Ban Me

Jaysus I'd rather we played with 10 men than have Cygan in the team!! I cant stand that guy, he's pure muck!! :eek:

Nimrod's Son

Dont Ban Me wrote:

We have the players

I don't think you do and that's the problem.
Goalkeepers: Lehmann is extremely dodgy, Almunia even more so.
Defenders: Cygan is terrible, Cole/Lauren missing, Capmbell has personal problems, Senderos not looking particularly tidy, Eboue not good enough.
Midfield: Pires/Ljungberg looking passed it/bored. Flamini's no Vieira, Gilberto looks lost without Paddy, Fabrgeas incosistant, Hleb a waste of money thus far.
Strikers: Henry looks uninterested, Bergkamp too old, Van Persie - disciplinary issues.
I think the squad needs a serious revamp, it's barely UEFA cup material as it stands IMO. I reckon Wenger has the know-how to come up with a solution though.

PHB

I don't think you do and that's the problem.
Goalkeepers: Lehmann is extremely dodgy, Almunia even more so.
Defenders: Cygan is terrible, Cole/Lauren missing, Capmbell has personal problems, Senderos not looking particularly tidy, Eboue not good enough.
Midfield: Pires/Ljungberg looking passed it/bored. Flamini's no Vieira, Gilberto looks lost without Paddy, Fabrgeas incosistant, Hleb a waste of money thus far.
Strikers: Henry looks uninterested, Bergkamp too old, Van Persie - disciplinary issues.
I think the squad needs a serious revamp, it's barely UEFA cup material as it stands IMO. I reckon Wenger has the know-how to come up with a solution though.

That is way way too harsh.


I don't think you do and that's the problem.
Goalkeepers: Lehmann a good keeper, prone to the occasional mishap.

Defenders: Cygan - bad, Cole/Lauren injured, Capmbell - personal problems\getting old\still a top class defender, Senderos - Young but quality defender. Eboue - is like 12? Give him a break for god sake

Midfield: Pires/Ljungberg - past it, Flamini's - is no Vieira, that said there is nobody in the premiership of his class atm so lets not be silly. Gilberto - is off form, but coming back from a major injury, Fabrgeas - is not inconsistant, that's jsut silly. He is still young and improving and an incredible talent, Hleb - Has been there best player of the season imo.

Strikers: Henry - One of the best players in the premiership. Has been woeful this year, and still 3rd top scorer? Reyes/Van Persie - young players with great potential

Arsenal need three players.
1. A top quality central defender
2. A top quality defensive/normal midfielder.
3. A top quality squad player who can play all across the back 5.

Then they need for half of their squad to be injured.
And they will walk back into the top 3.
They have class, it has just been an unlucky season for them, and I still don't think its over yet.

Mossy Monk

Nimrod's Son wrote:

it's barely UEFA cup material as it stands IMO

interesting considering where they are in the CL right now

blu_sonic

i think he means uefa qualification material

Pigman II

The Muppet wrote:

Aye to coin a phrase they don't like it up em.

Well some of them do, but I won't go there.

I think Arsenal are the kind of team that will destroy you if you let them play their game and give them time on the ball, but kick them round the pitch for 90 minutes and you'll have a fairly handy match. It's easier to get away with a phyisical game in the prem than in the CL and that is why their results are so different atm. Viera gave them a bit of steel for domestic games when he was there and now he's gone theres no one left throwing their weight around in midfield as far as I can see.

okidoki987

If we don't start doing something and soon, we won't even qualify for the UEFA cup let alone the Champions League!

Nimrod's Son

PHB wrote:

That is way way too harsh.


I don't think you do and that's the problem.
Goalkeepers: Lehmann a good keeper, prone to the occasional mishap.

Defenders: Cygan - bad, Cole/Lauren injured, Capmbell - personal problems\getting old\still a top class defender, Senderos - Young but quality defender. Eboue - is like 12? Give him a break for god sake

Midfield: Pires/Ljungberg - past it, Flamini's - is no Vieira, that said there is nobody in the premiership of his class atm so lets not be silly. Gilberto - is off form, but coming back from a major injury, Fabrgeas - is not inconsistant, that's jsut silly. He is still young and improving and an incredible talent, Hleb - Has been there best player of the season imo.

Strikers: Henry - One of the best players in the premiership. Has been woeful this year, and still 3rd top scorer? Reyes/Van Persie - young players with great potential

Arsenal need three players.
1. A top quality central defender
2. A top quality defensive/normal midfielder.
3. A top quality squad player who can play all across the back 5.

Then they need for half of their squad to be injured.
And they will walk back into the top 3.
They have class, it has just been an unlucky season for them, and I still don't think its over yet.

My oh my.
Right: Lehmann is a decent shot-stopper, that's about it. He makes stupid decisions, is very erratic and prone to dropping clangers. He's more interested in picking fights than minding his goals.

Defenders: you've agreed with me on all but Senderos and Eboue. Senderos had great first season but is looking distinctly shaky this season. I think he'll be a colossus in a few years but at the moment, it's Toure who is steadying the ship and Arsenal need more solidity at the moment. Eboue is nearly 23, hardly young.

Midfielders: you've more or less agreed with my assessment of them barring Fabregas and Hleb. To say Hleb has been their best this season is laughable. He's started less games than all the other regular midfielders and has contributed a whopping 1 goal and 1 assist. He looks tidy and creative enough but he's some way off justifying his 8mill price-tag. Fabregas is another player who'll be great in a couple of years but at the moment he's too light-weight and too young to dictate the pace of many games.

Henry is a class act, there's no doubt about that. In fact, I think he's the best footballer in the world. It just seems to me that his mind is off in the Catalan region of Spain rather than focusing on his game with Arsenal. Reyes is an excellent player, I haven't said otherwise. Van Persie is also a fantastic talent when he focuses on playing as opposed to attempting to injure the oppostion.

Arsenal need a decent keeper, a top quality centre-half and a decent squad player to play across the back. They need a world-class player to partner Fabregas and they need a creative player to play out wide. They may need to look at new strikers come the transfer window if Henry goes and I'm reserving judgement on Adabayor.

Wenger has a lot of issues to sort out. Stories have come out of Highbury in the past twelve months that Cole, Henry, Hleb, Reyes, Campbell are all unhappy and this has to be addressed.

Their atrocious away form also has to be looked at. The're a great passing side but there's no bite in the midfield and they quickly need to find that elusive Vieira replacement, someone to put their foot in and get a hold of the ball.
I'm aware that injuries have been a big factor in their results this season.

Wenger is an excellent manager and I'm sure he's shrewd enough to get the problems sorted and get Arsenal back into the top three.

Mossy Monk, use your head, I meant that the current scenario means they mightn't even qualify for the UEFA Cup although I'd be amazed if they didn't.

smemon

i remember sky sports (andy gray) pre old trafford 04, comparing arsenal and possibly even saying they were the greatest english side of all time apart from trophy winning.

arsenal have never recovered from that day and lack mental strength to cope with setbacks. tony adams, keown, vieira etc were huge, strong, influential characters that led the youngsters into battle.

imo they dont have any strong characters anymore. losing vieira was the biggest mistake wenger will ever make. its not his football ability arsenal miss, it's his aura.

Necronomicon

smemon wrote:

imo they dont have any strong characters anymore. losing vieira was the biggest mistake wenger will ever make.

In fairness it wasn't really a mistake on Wenger's part (well, maybe not getting in a replacement was, but that's another debate). I think Arsenal were resigned to losing Vieira long before he went. The season before last, a deal with Madrid was all but done but eventually collapsed, a wage issue if I remember correctly. The following season, last, was full of speculation all year round that his head never came back around, and at times he did look a bit casual, and not himself. I'm sure it's near impossible to keep a player if they are 100% committed to leaving.

smemon

Necromomicon wrote:

In fairness it wasn't really a mistake on Wenger's part (well, maybe not getting in a replacement was, but that's another debate). I think Arsenal were resigned to losing Vieira long before he went. The season before last, a deal with Madrid was all but done but eventually collapsed, a wage issue if I remember correctly. The following season, last, was full of speculation all year round that his head never came back around, and at times he did look a bit casual, and not himself. I'm sure it's near impossible to keep a player if they are 100% committed to leaving.

yeah every summer vieira was linked with madrid, left in similar style to keane in that the clubs couldnt do much to keep them but vieira should have been tied down years ago to a longer contract just like henry. unlike utd, arsenal have no fiery figures (smith, rooney) so they definately need a replacement as soon as vieira left.

wenger didnt do that and is paying the price. theres a difference between blooding youth and relying on it, imo wenger relies too much on young players like fabregas to fill the boots left by some huge players.

eyerer

blackburn are a decent side these days.
blackburn, bolton etc are physical which arsenal dont like, madrid aren't exactly that kind of team
their defense has been suffering through injuries
and despite his idiocy, lehmann has been playing well lately....maybe pushing people to the ground inspires him

cashback

I think the current squad should mature over a two or three year period into something to rival that of a few years ago.
I think lehmann's been great recently and I wouldn't be too worried about him for the time being. Need a decent sub goalie though.
Eboue was fantastic against Madrid and with a few starts he'll fit right in.
Senderos is lacking confidence at the moment, give him some time.
If Cole goes we have Clichy who would be more than adequate I reckon.
Pires heart is not in it I think. Ljunberg has the potential to get back to his best. Fabregas will be amazing. Gilberto hasn't been great this season.
Hleb is having a season similar to Pires first in England. Pires didn't set the world on fire when he joined but his second season was great.
Little worried about Henry if no champions league next season.
Adebayor is good squad player. Reyes and Van Persie will be excellent as time goes on.
Wenger still needs a few more signings but the future looks bright enough.

arbeitsscheuer

2002/2003 corresponding fixture: Blackburn 2-0 Arsenal

But I take your point about the inconsistency, I mean jesus 10 fcuking losses is unreal, but tbh a lot of it is down to the injuries. Combine that to the sale of Vieira, free transfer of Edu (fantastic player - but then he did get injured for 6 months at Valencia too so...), astonishing dip in form and commitment of Gilberto, Campbell, Pires... And then you have a problem.

A team so injury-ravaged, without a captain in the mould of Adams or Vieira, with the experienced players shirking responsibility when they are needed most, will always have a sh*t time of it in League games.

But Wenger's building a good squad, he's blooded a lot of youngsters, bought in more youngsters too, and is keeping Arsenal ticking along til we move into Ashburton Grove in July-August.

After that, with all our injured players back, it'll simply be a case of sitting back and waiting for the team to gel...

/crosses fingers

samb

SebtheBum wrote:

[B
But Wenger's building a good squad, he's blooded a lot of youngsters, bought in more youngsters too, and is keeping Arsenal ticking along til we move into Ashburton Grove in July-August.

Yes I'd agree. Wenger has been probably the best manager in the preimiership ever IMO. He has done brilliantly without ridiculus sums of money and he is taking a longer term view.
A friend of my Dads is so pissed off about the new stadium, it will be within a hundred metres of this house off holloway Rd. Apparently the house price will actually rise because off some crazed Arsenal supporters. Lucky for him becasue he won't want to live there. That said, I can't wait to go visit.

Pepe LeFrits

Nimrod's Son wrote:

My oh my.
Right: Lehmann is a decent shot-stopper, that's about it. He makes stupid decisions, is very erratic and prone to dropping clangers. He's more interested in picking fights than minding his goals.

How many clangers has he dropped this season? He's been absolutely outstanding, his performances this season are on a par (at least) with any other keeper in the league. He is exceptionally agile (stunningly so considering his age) and has demonstrated this time and time again. His judgement on crosses has steadied too.

Almunia has only played 12(?) games this season, mostly against fairly weak opposition, but he's been near-immaculate in what he has done. Arsenal's problems this season have not come from the goalkeepers.

Eboue is nearly 23, hardly young.

He had a super ANC and has been excellent in the few games he's played this season, particularily when he had Robinho in his pocket. He's strong, quick, has a good shot, imaginative going forward (strong dribbler) and a good tackler.

Midfielders: you've more or less agreed with my assessment of them barring Fabregas and Hleb. To say Hleb has been their best this season is laughable. He's started less games than all the other regular midfielders and has contributed a whopping 1 goal and 1 assist. He looks tidy and creative enough but he's some way off justifying his 8mill price-tag. Fabregas is another player who'll be great in a couple of years but at the moment he's too light-weight and too young to dictate the pace of many games.

I agree with the above. Fabregas is good enough now but he needs a decent partner because Gilberto is dreadful most of the time.

I agree with most of the rest of that post. Pires and Bergkamp are past it and should/will walk away in the summer. Ljungberg, Campbell and Senderos are suffering from a massive shortage in confidence at the moment... the former two in particular don't benefit from the added pressure of being amongst the most senior members of the squad - Vieira's presence is missed there. If they can regain fitness & confidence I believe they have a few more seasons in them.

Next season I would like to see an understudy to Lehmann signed, Justin Hoyte return to plug gaps in the squad (the versatile defender) and a centre midfielder signed (I'd welcome Joey Barton, Mahamadou Diarra, Yaya Toure or Didier Zokora).

The team is very young in general and will improve, they just need more protection and leadership. I reckon Hleb will perform better next season, Van Persie and Diaby will play a bigger part while a few of the youngsters will be good enough to start coming into the fringes of the team (Hoyte, Djourou, Walcott, Smith and Lupoli in particular). Wenger just has to replace some of the deadwood with experienced quality.

Pepe LeFrits

SebtheBum wrote:

After that, with all our injured players back

How long have we been saying that for though? I think it may now be 2 years since Arsenal were last able to field their first choice 11 (though it's not really clear what that is nowadays). The players just can't ever seem to stay fit, and I'm growing quite concerned about that.

arbeitsscheuer

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

How long have we been saying that for though? I think it may now be 2 years since Arsenal were last able to field their first choice 11 (though it's not really clear what that is nowadays). The players just can't ever seem to stay fit, and I'm growing quite concerned about that.

Of course, there'll always be injuries, and every top-flight side has to deal with them. It would be churlish to deny that, but even an ardent Arsenal critic has to concede that any team that loses 10 quality members of it's first team squad for, off the top of my head, 3 games is having a particularly bad time of it.

With a severely weakened team, suffering an endemic confidence crisis, we lie 6th in the table.

None of this really worries me except the fact that, Bernabeu performance aside, we have not come close to passing through teams or playing the kind of lightning breakaways than we did in the halcyon days of 2004. The question of whether we can just flick a switch and return to such phenomenal football once we have all our players back must be answered.

And if the answer is no, then we need new players. Simple really.

Royale with Cheese

There's been some rubbish talked about some of the Arsenal players in this thread. Namely Lehmann, he's been fantastic this season as is rightly getting another 12 months at the Arsenal. I think Almunia is fine for a second choice keeper. I don't know where the criticism of Eboue is coming from, I doubt the poster in question has ever actually seen him play. The only inconsistency Cesc Fabregas shows is that some days he's fantastic and others he's just solid. Please tell me when he's ever played a shocker, apart from maybe the time he got sent off last month. Yes he'll be a fantastic player in the future but he's still a good player now, aged 18. Did inconsistency get him into the full Spain squad? Please tell me the last time Van Persie has been sent off apart from that accidental high foot in the Champions League (yes it was accidental, he never took his eyes off the ball). He's been Arsenal's brightest spark from the younger players this season and it's only been injury stopping him from getting 20+ goals this season.

Other criticisms are rightly made though. Senderos doesn't convince me and never did. When he had that run in the first team last season I was still never confident when the ball came his way. Campbell is getting old now, will be interesting to see if he can recover from this season. Pires is 32 and his career is winding down. Ljungberg has been poor but I'd give him another chance seeing as he's only about 28 I think. Gilberto has been a waste of time, biggest disappointment of all. Wenger was obviously pinning his hopes on Gilberto driving the midfield after failing to replace Vieira and he has just been dreadful. I always preferred Edu partnering Vieira anyway. Flamini isn't really of the quality of a 3rd choice centre mid at a club like Arsenal. He works hard though (but don't all players who know they're punching above their weight?). Hleb shows good qualities but then blows it all by failing to make a simple pass to a team mate 10 metres away. I would love to see the stats, I'd say his pass completion rate is abysmal. I'd give him another season before writing him off though.

Arsenal's problems are fairly simple. A lot of promising youngsters with little experience and alot of experienced players who are nearly all playing consistently rubbish. Campbell, Gilberto, Pires, Ljungberg... all key players in Arsenal's recent success all just collapse at once. Doesn't help the younger members of the squad. You can add Vieira and Edu (yes Edu, seriously underrated player who Arsenal are missing almost as much as Vieira) to that list as they're gone. So there you've lost 6 experienced players so to speak. Wenger knew this was going to be a transition season but I think any thought of finishing lower than 4th was not in his mind. Injuries and poor displays from the experienced players have left the club in a bad position. I wouldn't mind so much about missing out on Champions League football for 1 year if it wasn't for the fact Henry will probably leave if Arsenal don't qualify, which is looking increasingly likely.

Roddy23

Royale maybe its just laziness on my part, but I'd have to agree with everything ye just said there.

Nimrod's Son

Royale with Cheese wrote:

There's been some rubbish talked about some of the Arsenal players in this thread. Namely Lehmann, he's been fantastic this season as is rightly getting another 12 months at the Arsenal. I think Almunia is fine for a second choice keeper. I don't know where the criticism of Eboue is coming from, I doubt the poster in question has ever actually seen him play.

No, I've never seen Eboue play :rolleyes: That's just a retarded thing to say. Did you see him play against Liverpool? If kicking the ball into touch anytime it comes near you makes a good full-back then he really excelled himself in that game. He's an alright player, that's about it. The African Nations Cup doesn't have a high enough standard of competition to judge whether a player is any good. He managed to get himself booked three times in that competition as well. Will he keep Lauren out of the side when he comes back? I doubt that very much.
Fair enough, Lehmann hasn't had a terrible season, I suppose I hold resentment against him cos I think he's got a scumbag attitude. There's better keepers about in the Premiership (Given, Jasskelainen, Robinson, Friedel...). If Arsenal want to get back to where they were then they have to not settle for second best and this goes for all areas of the pitch.
There's a reason why Arsenal are doing so badly in the league compared to not so long ago when they were literally unbeatable. I'm trying to highlight some of the faults as I see them, wrong or otherwise. I'm not an Arsenal supporter but I've admired them for a decade now and I'd like to see them back where they belong: at the top giving Chelsea et al a go.
That's my two cents.

Fighting Irish

samb wrote:

Yes I'd agree. Wenger has been probably the best manager in the preimiership ever IMO. He has done brilliantly without ridiculus sums of money and he is taking a longer term view.
A friend of my Dads is so pissed off about the new stadium, it will be within a hundred metres of this house off holloway Rd. Apparently the house price will actually rise because off some crazed Arsenal supporters. Lucky for him becasue he won't want to live there. That said, I can't wait to go visit.

I disagree

Pepe LeFrits

Nimrod's Son wrote:

No, I've never seen Eboue play :rolleyes: That's just a retarded thing to say. Did you see him play against Liverpool?

Yeah, he was one of the very few Arsenal players who came out of that game with any credit.

Fair enough, Lehmann hasn't had a terrible season, I suppose I hold resentment against him cos I think he's got a scumbag attitude. There's better keepers about in the Premiership (Given, Jasskelainen, Robinson, Friedel...).

I doubt many of them have single-handedly saved their team as many times as Lehmann has this season, I also suspect they've made more howlers than he has.

If Arsenal want to get back to where they were then they have to not settle for second best and this goes for all areas of the pitch.
There's a reason why Arsenal are doing so badly in the league compared to not so long ago when they were literally unbeatable.

Yep, there is. Bergkamp, Pires, Ljungberg, Vieira, Campbell & injuries. There you go.

Fighting Irish wrote:

I disagree

Good contribution!

Pepe LeFrits

Oh, not really related, but Fabregas made his debut (18) tonight for Spain, starting. The Spanish press seem to be doing backflips over his performance. Reyes came off the bench and scored too.

arbeitsscheuer

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Oh, not really related, but Fabregas made his debut (18) tonight for Spain, starting. The Spanish press seem to be doing backflips over his performance. Reyes came off the bench and scored too.

Yeah, the Spanish dailies Marcia and AS positively creamed themselves over Cesc's performance in the Bernabeu last Wednesday...

Hope he did well tonight. If Cesc was English we'd never hear the end of it on BBC, tbh I quite like the fact that only Arsenal fans and Spaniards seem to realise just how fcuking good he is!

Seaneh

SebtheBum wrote:

Yeah, the Spanish dailies Marcia and AS positively creamed themselves over Cesc's performance in the Bernabeu last Wednesday...

Hope he did well tonight. If Cesc was English we'd never hear the end of it on BBC, tbh I quite like the fact that only Arsenal fans and Spaniards seem to realise just how fcuking good he is!

I'm an Athlone Town, Swansea City and A.C. Milan fan and I've know how good he was since before arsenal signed him :P

Jivin Turkey

SebtheBum wrote:

Yeah, the Spanish dailies Marcia and AS positively creamed themselves over Cesc's performance in the Bernabeu last Wednesday...

Hope he did well tonight. If Cesc was English we'd never hear the end of it on BBC, tbh I quite like the fact that only Arsenal fans and Spaniards seem to realise just how fcuking good he is!

No you are wrong.

It's only the English media that talk up their good young players