Garda Reserve

srdb20

Alright lads just saw this on the news tonight!

Not sure if this is the right Forum but it relates to work please feel free to move...

Whats the feeling on the new Garda Reserve starting up in September?

Do people think it'll be Good Bad or Ugly?

Will it work? Will the Garda help or Hinder it?

Cheers

PS (Hoping to join the Garda force this year, hence the post!)

seamus

It's an extremely poor attempt to fraudulently increase the Garda figures. At a community level it may be good, but in the long run it'll be a PR disaster. Just wait till the first reserve is killed on duty, or gets into a fight with some complete scumbags who are just laughing at him.

This country made a huge surplus last year. I can't see why there's any resistance whatsoever to ploughing proper resources into the Gardai instead of trying to make it seem like there are more Gardai than their actually are.

Morpheus

Ok, heres a question, How will the department of justice ensure that Garda Reserve members are available at all times to be deployed when required?

Take for example the Army Reserve, no job security, no pay for attending weekly parade, no pay for attending weekend exercises, paid once a year for annual camp or for training exercises alongside the Army Regulars, if you can get the time off work for that.

You see, there is zero legislation for job security, if the govt will not introduce it for Army Reserve, they most certainly wont like facing the prospect of introducing it for Garda Reserves, so you have the situation whereby reserves turn up when they can, rather than regularly when required.

srdb20

What im more worried about is these Garda Reserves abusing the power they will have!!!

dirtyharry1971

srdb20 wrote:

What im more worried about is these Garda Reserves abusing the power they will have!!!

I hear ya
This is gonna be a major problem plus the amount of local knowledge that will become available to the garda now will cause a few more problems. I know they said they won't be stationed in their own areas but if it's a reserve force they can't be stationed too far away.

There may be trouble ahead lads

seamus

srdb20 wrote:

What im more worried about is these Garda Reserves abusing the power they will have!!!

They will be supervised by a full uniformed Garda at all times. I doubt that Garda will allow them to do something stupid.

delly

It seems to work in the UK, so why the resistance over here if its done right? I understand that there is no real substitute for extra full time Gardai, but surely there are some areas that this idea could be beneficial too.

Had originally planned on joining the Gardai a number of years back but my life took another direction, so I personally would be interested in joining such a reserve.

exactiv

delly wrote:

It seems to work in the UK, so why the resistance over here if its done right?

Because you can be sure it won't be done right. They have had a reserve force in the UK for 100+ years so they're used to the idea.

This is Ireland. It won't be done right. It's not actually possible.

You'll have a load of people joining for the power. It's the worst idea I've ever heard of.

seamus

Actually I think the main issue is proportion.

A reserve force should be a small force which can be used in emergency times (Garda Strike, civil unrest) or for more mundane duties which may eat up Garda time (football matches, parades, etc). Duties where Gardai require their training and legal skills (escorts, protests, general policing), only fully-trained Gardau should be used. Reservists should never be used where you're likely to require arrests and/or detentions, except in an emergency.

But the proposed reserve force will be 4,000. Which will make up 25% of the force when up to strength. It will make up even more of the "on the beat" force when you remove any Gardai in specialist units. McDowell will have no qualms in using these Gardai for regular duties, and claiming that our streets are better patrolled than ever.

JP Mulvano

dirtyharry1971 wrote:

I hear ya
This is gonna be a major problem plus the amount of local knowledge that will become available to the garda now will cause a few more problems. I know they said they won't be stationed in their own areas but if it's a reserve force they can't be stationed too far away.

There may be trouble ahead lads

How would this be any different that the way it is at the moment with full time gardai?

JP Mulvano

seamus wrote:

Actually I think the main issue is proportion.

A reserve force should be a small force which can be used in emergency times (Garda Strike, civil unrest) or for more mundane duties which may eat up Garda time (football matches, parades, etc). Duties where Gardai require their training and legal skills (escorts, protests, general policing), only fully-trained Gardau should be used. Reservists should never be used where you're likely to require arrests and/or detentions, except in an emergency.

But the proposed reserve force will be 4,000. Which will make up 25% of the force when up to strength. It will make up even more of the "on the beat" force when you remove any Gardai in specialist units. McDowell will have no qualms in using these Gardai for regular duties, and claiming that our streets are better patrolled than ever.

Agreed. Although it would be pretty poor to join the resevists and be put as a jobsbody looking after football matches, parades etc. I think without full time training and on the job expirience day in and day out it would be like handing the keys of the jail to a blind man.

Gardai are generally ok in my opinion, than again I haven't had too many run ins with them, obviously there are some good and some bad but if the government tried to claim that our streets were better policed because 4,000 inexpirienced, probably less well trained people were walking around in Garda uniforms I think it'd just be another case of the government trying to manage the problem poorly or paint a good PR face on it.

Our man in Havana

What sort of background checks are they going to run on these types? Will there is physcological tests to keep the little hitlers and walter mitty types out.

Will it become full of local nosey busybodies who will now have access to pulse so they can look up all their neighbours on it for gossip?

srdb20

Bond-007 wrote:

What sort of background checks are they going to run on these types? Will there is physcological tests to keep the little hitlers and walter mitty types out.

Will it become full of local nosey busybodies who will now have access to pulse so they can look up all their neighbours on it for gossip?

I was thinking about that myself, if you got on the wrong side of some Garda Reserve, could they simply look up information on you!

Thats kinda freaky!

s8n

what kind of limitations are they putting on this (i.e. age, nationality etc...)

godtabh

I dont think they have the power of arrest do they? If they dont they will be a laughing stock. If they do they'll try and arrest some one in a situation they cant control and some one will get hurt.

As for aceess to Pulse if they can get that what would stop some one from a drug gang getting some one in to the reserves?

What happens if you get injuried? Will there be compo? Can you imagine going to your real job and saying I did my ankle in last night chasing some scumbag?

I think its a joke. You get what you pay for at the end of the day.

marsdelight

MABYE IM WRONG,but i taught they were hiring 3000 gaurds .
actual police force not reserves?and i even over heard they wanted multi launduage gaurds to handle comucation with chinese asian africa domestic problems. etc.

JP Mulvano

marsdelight wrote:

MABYE IM WRONG,but i taught they were hiring 3000 gaurds .
actual police force not reserves?and i even over heard they wanted multi launduage gaurds to handle comucation with chinese asian africa domestic problems. etc.

WHAT??

srdb20

It doesnt seem like theres much of a silver lining here!

Theres major downsides to the whole operation and unless some very tight controls are put in place this could cause some serious issues!

daisydawn

i think it is a great idea. i once considered joining the guards but i didnt cos my career path led me in a different way. i would definately be interested in joining a reserve force and would take the position very seriously and would do it for my own personal achievement (its something i have always wanted to do) and i hope that it would also serve my community well. other countries are able to do this very successfully so why cant we. its so typical of the irish to have a very negative attitude from the word go. of course we would need very strict guidelines in what the reserve force could do but i cant see why it wouldnt work. i for one would welcome such a force. thats just my opinion anyway.

delly

The jist that i got was that it would be aimed towards older people that might have a little more maturity and life experience.

Whatever about being worried about reservists on a power trip, there are quite a lot of 20 year olds coming out of Templemore that are practically 'brainwashed' to quote a senior family member who is currently in the force. He also described a lot of them as 'dangerous' as they come out with the mentality that everybody is a scumbag. Thats just his opinion, but i would value it as he is in the job over 22 years.

As regards backround checks of possible reservists, the same procedures that apply to full time members will take place according to the minister.

seamus

s8n wrote:

what kind of limitations are they putting on this (i.e. age, nationality etc...)

I would imagine that the restrictions will be similar as for normal Gardai (perhaps with the exception of age), and the vetting procedures equally stringent.

kearnsr wrote:

I dont think they have the power of arrest do they? If they dont they will be a laughing stock. If they do they'll try and arrest some one in a situation they cant control and some one will get hurt.

They will have power of arrest. However, since they will be constantly (yeah right) supervised by a full Garda, it's unlikely they'd have to make the arrest themselves. Given that they'd only have very basic training in terms of the law, they will probably be warned off making an arrest unless instructed to do so by a full uniformed officer. The consequences of wrongful arrest can be quite serious.

As for aceess to Pulse if they can get that what would stop some one from a drug gang getting some one in to the reserves?

As I said above, I would imagine they would be subject to the same vetting procedure as normal Gardai. They will check your history, your family, and will probably consult local Gardai.

MABYE IM WRONG,but i taught they were hiring 3000 gaurds .
actual police force not reserves?and i even over heard they wanted multi launduage gaurds to handle comucation with chinese asian africa domestic problems. etc.

Recruitment of non-Irish Gardai has already begun. McDowell promised 3 years ago to hire an additional 2000 Gardai. If he had delivered then, those 2,000 Gardai would be on our streets by now. Instead he never bothered with that (though still claims it's on the way), and just decided that a reserve force would be a better idea instead :rolleyes:

JP Mulvano

srdb20 wrote:

It doesnt seem like theres much of a silver lining here!

Theres major downsides to the whole operation and unless some very tight controls are put in place this could cause some serious issues!

Silver lining is one of the following things depending on how it's setup:

1. Normal Gadai are freed up from mickey mouse stuff like concerts, football, concerts etc. If the reservists are sent to do this stuff which I don't see why they couldn't. A monkey could do it.

2. Normal people as another poster said are given a chance to contribute towards to their community. I often think how good it would be to have more gardai on the streets

3. Fresh blood is injected into a old heaving dinosaur of a police force.

Whatever happens I think this would give a good increase to the ranks of Gardai. As I said if the government tried to pass this off as a full increase of 3,000 to the gardai. At best I think it could be viewed as an increase of 1000 to 1500.

I don't subscribe to the claims that it will be full of busybodies and snoopers etc. At the end of the day there are tight controls in place to allow normal Gardai into the force and I can't see why this wouldn't be carried forward into the reservists as well. Not to mention I presume the 25 mile rule or whatever it is now wil lbe carried into this i.e. you cannot be stationed within 25 or 30 miles of where you grew up. This is to prevent stuff like hometown snooping and corruption from happening.

Also there are tight controls on who can access what on PULSE etc. It's not like you can jsut stick in anyone's details and get everything they're ever done. To be perfectly honest you'll be lucky to even see the full criminal record. Gardai still have major problems using PC's and filling out paper work. In most Gardai stations I've been in they're either not there at all or gathering dust in the corner.

Bam Bam

The only people I can see in the reserve will be those on the dole. They must work 20 hours a week doing menial labour, instead they'll take on minor police duties so they can receive dole payments.

It won't work for those with a job because there's no legal reason for an employer to release you for training duties.

It's the same situation with the army reserve.

If you are relying on our patriotic employers then you'll be left waiting.

Legislation should be brought in for both organisations. If its not then you can never depend on these organisations to put people on the ground when they're needed.

seamus

JP Mulvano wrote:

I don't subscribe to the claims that it will be full of busybodies and snoopers etc. At the end of the day there are tight controls in place to allow normal Gardai into the force and I can't see why this wouldn't be carried forward into the reservists as well.

Yes and no. As was pointed out before though (ages ago), it's unpaid - so you have to bring into question the motives of people joining. Certainly some will join because they want to help the community, but they would be few and far between. I'd like to join a reserve force, but not if it's unpaid (why would you take the crap that the Gardai take for free?).

Not to mention I presume the 25 mile rule or whatever it is now wil lbe carried into this i.e. you cannot be stationed within 25 or 30 miles of where you grew up. This is to prevent stuff like hometown snooping and corruption from happening.

Perhaps this rule isn't enforced, or is different for Dublin, but I know plenty of Gardai who live well within this boundary - many under 10 miles from where they grew up.
In fact, for reservists, it would probably be a better idea from a PR point of view, if they were stationed in or close to their home areas. If people have friends, colleagues or acquaintences that are also reservist Gardai, then it will give them a better impression of the force as a whole.

JP Mulvano

seamus wrote:

Perhaps this rule isn't enforced, or is different for Dublin, but I know plenty of Gardai who live well within this boundary - many under 10 miles from where they grew up.
In fact, for reservists, it would probably be a better idea from a PR point of view, if they were stationed in or close to their home areas. If people have friends, colleagues or acquaintences that are also reservist Gardai, then it will give them a better impression of the force as a whole.

AFAIK it is enforced. I really can't say for Dublin. All the Gardai I know are from outside Dublin and are all stationed well outside this area. I could be wrong on the distance but it's definetly something like 20 - 30. It could actually be kilometers rather than miles. Although the rules on the whole thing date back to the creation of the original force and it could even be you can't be stationed within 25 miles or whatever of where you were born. The whole thing, like most of the Irish legeal system, needs a refresh.

I'd agree it's certainly more susceptible to corruption without this is place.

Didn't realise it was unpaid. I'd still join and am seriously considering it. I alot of people would join to help their community and clean things up a bit. I'm disgusted by the state of the streets of the capital alone never mind the rest of the country and kick myself for not doing more about it. I don't consider myself to be a odd person for thinking like this and I'd like to believe other people are like this, Naivety or not!! the whole unpaid thing and then no legislation in place to cover time off would turn alot off people of the whole thing. Again the government come up with a good idea, or rather nick it from somewhere else, and then f&*k the whole thing by not doing it properly.

Peace

I would join the garda reserves, its not their fault they are cronically under staffed & streched.

I wouldn't do it for free and legislation would have to be brought in to allocate time off. Also the 30mile rule would not work as i'm from Dublin and it would be impreactical to do this job 30miles out!

moremiles

JP Mulvano wrote: »

Agreed. Although it would be pretty poor to join the resevists and be put as a jobsbody looking after football matches, parades etc. I think without full time training and on the job expirience day in and day out it would be like handing the keys of the jail to a blind man.

Gardai are generally ok in my opinion, than again I haven't had too many run ins with them, obviously there are some good and some bad but if the government tried to claim that our streets were better policed because 4,000 inexpirienced, probably less well trained people were walking around in Garda uniforms I think it'd just be another case of the government trying to manage the problem poorly or paint a good PR face on it.

This is 2011 people not 1911 its progress and the gra are here to stay so build a bridge and get over it.........

moremiles

dirtyharry1971 wrote: »

I hear ya
This is gonna be a major problem plus the amount of local knowledge that will become available to the garda now will cause a few more problems. I know they said they won't be stationed in their own areas but if it's a reserve force they can't be stationed too far away.

There may be trouble ahead lads

It wouldnt be a problem if you have nothing to hide now would it or anybody else for that matter.......

Shield

You do realise you're responding to posts that are over 5 years old, right? The Garda Reserve, and Garda Reserve Recruitment now both have their own forums. Times have moved on indeed.

Eoin

Shield wrote: »

You do realise you're responding to posts that are over 5 years old, right.

pretty much this ^