Sparring Poll for All MAists/Sportspeople

columok

Just wondering who on the boards think that sparring is necessary for developing basic fighting skills -whether they be for street or for sport.

I'm not stirring btw.

Sparring- training with (say) 2 people using full resistance and full ranges of techniques with the intention of imposing their technique and preventing their "opponent" doing theres. eg. Judo sparring- both people trying to throw each other Boxing sparring- both people trying to hit each other while not getting hit etc. etc. etc.

Thanks,

colum

cade

Nope. Dont think so.

yes i do believe the odd bit of sparing is necessary, it wakes people up and makes them put some "aliveness" into their movements, it's also a great teacher to show you what your doing wrong, hold your hands in one position and take twenty slaps in the head the odds are you'll fix your stance for the twenty first blow. i can see how this is very essential in Judo and Bjj, learnt this at the last meetup, once resistance is applied it's a different story than just goin through the movements, however i do believe in my Karate it should be used a lot less or else all the subtleties of the style are forgotten and the result is endless child like pummeling, also know as imao Freestyle, i never got that, you spend years training in a style to throw it all away for a competition it's like "i know what i've trained to do but i'm not going to do it" the result is... well...:v:

columok

Nope. Dont think so.

Cade,

Surely the standup fighting we did at the cross training shows that ALL standup striking arts can be tested and improved by continuous sparring.

Surely the subtleties come after years of being really good at sparring the basics . Almost like you have to lose the subtleties before you can gain them.

I also think its funny the way karate guys fight differently than they train. I've never seen a karate guy use traditional karate mechanics and fight effectively. The hands always come off the hip and it starts to look like thai or kickboxing (Full contact)

cade

Nope. Dont think so.

ok, i would've called what we were doing more partner work than sparring, a set of guidelines was established before we began so as to work on the different area's, first round was the push punching we practiced, where i got to practive avoiding 2kings uppercut (i never managed to ) if this is the type of training that you would refer to as "sparring" then yes i'm all for it as opposed to what i usually see called sparring, two people just trying to land a dig on the other guy, throwing hands all over the place and not properly following through on kicks so landing off balance.

ok i'm not in the know about Shotokan, Shi-to-ryu or Gojo-ryu so i can't speak for how they would usually spar but i know you yourself Colm trained wado-ryu under Iwasaki Sensei, i ditched my last federation and am now training soley under him myself, but we'd never spar hand on hip, it was always up beside the elbow of our leading hand.

As for the traditional Karate mechanics of hand on hip, we'll most of those long stances are to build strength and are void without a base line, what i mean is that over in japan martial arts are part of the school curiculum, hence if someones gonna fight they throw a punch in a certain way, stand a certain way (or proberly some deformed version of it) and hence a suitable defence can be practiced, hence why kata were formed before sparing, each style had a set of stances they'd drop into firstly, to defend against a high or low attack, usualy very little difference depending, yet over here the biggest form of combat would be Boxing hence why most of it is passed off as a waste of time.

columok

Nope. Dont think so.

ok, i would've called what we were doing more partner work than sparring, a set of guidelines was established before we began so as to work on the different area's, first round was the push punching we practiced, where i got to practive avoiding 2kings uppercut (i never managed to ) if this is the type of training that you would refer to as "sparring" then yes i'm all for it as opposed to what i usually see called sparring, two people just trying to land a dig on the other guy, throwing hands all over the place and not properly following through on kicks so landing off balance.

We started off with low intensity sparring. But it was based on full contact sparring just gentler. Dunno if you jumped in but it built up to for example myself and kev kicking the legs off each other. I would have thought that was a good place to practice karate vs. muay thai/boxing etc.

two people just trying to land a dig on the other guy, throwing hands all over the place and not properly following through on kicks so landing off balance.

Sounds like points sparring. It isnt based on full contact so i think it teaches bad habits. But... you can tone down full contact sparring with shin pads and 16 oz gloves so that its safe yet youre still using sensible full contact methods, hands high, jabs and straights etc.

dlofnep

Nope. Dont think so.

mma v tma tbh

Roper

Nope. Dont think so.

cade wrote:

ok, i would've called what we were doing more partner work than sparring, a set of guidelines was established before we began so as to work on the different area's, first round was the push punching

I can only speak for my place, but we always establish guidlines, either by talking to your partner or by common sense between more experienced individuals.
Sparring, by my definition is anything where you and your partner are trying to hit each other. The reason I set in place the "push contact" rule initially was because we had such a diverse range of experiences and sizes. I use this with my beginners so that they get an idea of contact while being able to follow through. Essentially its taking the sting or whip out of your strikes. I'm sorry you didn't see it as helpful to your sparring game, but I've found it an excellent training tool for those not used to sparring.


[/QUOTE] usually see called sparring, two people just trying to land a dig on the other guy, throwing hands all over the place and not properly following through on kicks so landing off balance.[/QUOTE]
That sounds like beginners, or those not used to proper sparring. Cade, to be honest, I can't understand your attitude towards it especially after meeting and sparring with some of the guys. What you call the "subtlety" of the style surely is meant to manifest itself in sparring or fighting. I see very little subtlety in my beginners, but more and more as the guys spar more and get better and more experienced.

However, I have noticed that with a lot of semi-contact Karate guys, that they show wonderful "subtlety" in their kata and beautiful looking kicks as they warm up, then just get in and swing their hands and legs with no game once the fight comes. Obviously I'm generalising there but thats what I've seen.

MaxBax

Nope. Dont think so.

Sparring is great.

cade

Nope. Dont think so.

Dudes i'm agreeing with you

columok wrote:

Sounds like points sparring. It isnt based on full contact so i think it teaches bad habits.

ok this was the type of sparring i was refering to and yes i agree, this is the predominant form of sparring we'd train in and thats why i said it should be kept to a minimum, the stuff i was training with you guys was great and highly useful, but it just isn't present in my style.

Roper wrote:

I'm sorry you didn't see it as helpful to your sparring game, but I've found it an excellent training tool for those not used to sparring

it's not that i didn't find it useful, completely the opposite, i was just saying that for me having trained in this crappy semi-contact, stop your punch an inch infront of them stuff it was just hard for me to get the hang of at the time.

Roper wrote:

with a lot of semi-contact Karate guys, that they show wonderful "subtlety" in their kata and beautiful looking kicks as they warm up, then just get in and swing their hands and legs with no game once the fight comes

exactly my point about Point sparring,....why do i feel the hole i'm in is getting deeper :rolleyes:

columok

Nope. Dont think so.

So cade maybe dont approach karate as something that is necessarily 100% functional and applicable to striking sparring. Maybe take up thai or boxing for your more realistic sparrable stuff and do your karate for the fun or for your own reasons.:)

Roper

Nope. Dont think so.

You could always take up Ogles-Bo. It's a brand new art.

MaxBax

Nope. Dont think so.

cade don't listen to them. if u enjoy what you're doing, keep doing it. but don't be afraid to try something new, you might like that too.

Roper

Nope. Dont think so.

MaxBax wrote:

cade don't listen to them. if u enjoy what you're doing, keep doing it.

No cade, don't listen to HIM, take up Ogles-Bo... you know you want to....

I'm not trying to say that cade should quit and walk away from what he obviously enjoys doing, just answering some specific points regarding sparring. Long live diversity of thought and opinion!

memphis

Nope. Dont think so.

When I first started MA I used to hate sparring. But as my skills developed and my confidence grew I gradually got to enjoy sparring. To anser the OP's question yes I think sparring is a necessity in training. It gives you the chance to put those skills and technique you learn into action. It is also a bit fast and speed up, than it'd be if you were just doing moves up and down the hall, so it allows you to see how you response, using various techniques, and which of those technniques work best.