Reincarnation

Asiaprod

Thaedydal wrote:

A public woman was not a whore in that context.

Sorry for misunderstanding your point re Mary M. I see the difference.
Let me come strait to the point. I have an interest in Wicca for the following reason. The honest question I am seeking answers to is to do with reincarnation or rebirth. According to the links, a Wiccan believes in Reincarnation. A Buddhist also believes the same. In you opinion, is there a difference between how both groups interpret what reincarnation is and why we have it
If you are not oathbound, I would be delighted to hear more on this, if you are, do you know where I can read up on this aspect.
Thanks in advance

coffee_cake

Thought it was just rebirth for buddhists, asia
unless Tibetans anyway

Nevyn

http://www.meta-religion.com/Spiritualism/Wicca/death_and_reincarnation.htm

I do believe in reincarnation.
Not quite the Buddist wheel of life but more that my soul has many things to learn and experience and endure before it is done learning all that there is to be learned.

Yes there is free will you can try and twarth that it is you have to do in this life time and the lessons that you have to learn but that is just making things hard on yourself and putting off until another life time.

In handfasting if a couple are making a life bond there is the option of a soul bond that they will be linked together as they reincarnate.
"And you shall meet and know and love again"

The witches' own traditions simple tell them that they exsisted from all time;
but that they came from there they are now from the Summer Land in a distant past.

They consider it good that men should dance and be happy, and that this worship and initiation was nessacry for obtaining a favourible place in the Afterworld, and a reincarnation
into your own tribe again, among those whom you love and who loved you, and that you would remember, know, and love then again.

Quotes taken from 'The Meaning of Witchcraft' by Gerald Gardner

Asiaprod

bluewolf wrote:

Thought it was just rebirth for buddhists, asia
unless Tibetans anyway

No, rebirth/reincarnation is common to many belief systems. I believe that it is one of the major beliefs that has past down from our ancestors.

coffee_cake

Asiaprod wrote:

No, rebirth/reincarnation is common to many belief systems. I believe that it is one of the major beliefs that has past down from our ancestors.

No, I meant the whole there's a major difference between rebirth&reincarnation thing, and that buddhists do not believe in reincarnation. One involving no self, the other involving a self or soul. So far as I have studied.

Asiaprod

Thaedydal wrote:

Not quite the Buddist wheel of lie but more that my soul has manythings to learn and experience and ensure before it is done learning all that there is to be learned.

Thank you for that very clear answer. I will read the link and get back to you.
Agin, thanks

larryone

Thaedydal wrote:

many things to learn and experience and endure before it is done learning all that there is to be learned.

I dont think the process of learning ever ends. I think there will always be more to be learned, whether our souls are going solo as part of a physical being, or they are sharing in the universal consciousness of God (please replace with whatever word(s) you feel are appropriate) I think wherever the soul chooses to be, it will still be learning about itself, and about God, and about existance. I know this brings into question the idea that God (or whatever) is all-knowing about everything that was, is, will be and everything else inbetween, but it makes sense in terms of what I believe about God. Reincarnation? I think so, yes, if the soul chooses to reincarnate.

larryone

bluewolf wrote:

One involving no self

Could the idea of physical reincarnation be like that. I mean the idea that you die, you decompose, you are absorbed into the earth, parts of you become parts of another living organisms through absorption, eating, etc... other bits of you becoming something else. Can this cycle itself be referred to in some way as a reincarnation that involves no self?


What other ideas about reincarnation involving no self have you come accross?

coffee_cake

larryone wrote:

Could the idea of physical reincarnation be like that. I mean the idea that you die, you decompose, you are absorbed into the earth, parts of you become parts of another living organisms through absorption, eating, etc... other bits of you becoming something else. Can this cycle itself be referred to in some way as a reincarnation that involves no self?


What other ideas about reincarnation involving no self have you come accross?

Um, just buddhist rebirth.

larryone

I thought the buddhist Ideas on reincarnation involved a self. Obviously I am mistaken. Will read up on it more when I have time.
Thanks,
L

coffee_cake

larryone wrote:

I thought the buddhist Ideas on reincarnation involved a self. Obviously I am mistaken. Will read up on it more when I have time.
Thanks,
L

Buddhist rebirth is about someone being born to fulfil excess karma from a past life. There is no soul to make the link between lives, only the same excess karma. Kinda the same person, mostly not. Heh.
Try this
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/dharmadata/fdd47.htm
http://www.buddhanet.net/funbud10.htm

Finally, I would like to distinguish rebirth from transmigration. You may have noticed that in Buddhism, we consistently speak of rebirth and not transmigration. This is because in Buddhism we do not believe in an abiding entity, in a substance that trans-migrates. We do not believe in a self that is reborn. This is why when we explain rebirth, we make use of examples which do not require the transmigration of an essence or a substance. For example, when a sprout is born from a seed, there is no substance that transmigrates. The seed and the sprout are not identical. Similarly, when we light one candle from another candle, no substance travels from one to the other, and yet the first is the cause of the second. When one billiard ball strikes another, there is a continuity, the energy and direction of the first ball is imparted to the second. It is the cause of the second billiard ball moving in a particular direction and at a particular speed. When we step twice into a river, it is not the same river and yet there is continuity, the continuity of cause and effect. So there is rebirth, but not transmigration. There is moral responsibility, but not an independent, permanent self. There is the continuity of cause and effect, but not permanence.

Nevyn

"Then I will tell you a great secret, Captain. Perhaps the greatest of all time. The molecules of your body are the same molecules that make up this station and the nebula outside, that burn inside the stars themselves. We are starstuff, we are the universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out. As we have both learned, sometimes the universe requires a change of perspective."

-- Delenn to Sheridan in Babylon 5:"A Distant Star"

larryone

=0)
I've got to get me some more Babylon 5

hairyheretic

larryone wrote:

=0)
I've got to get me some more Babylon 5

http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=719237&p=57&g=72&pa=sr

This mammoth of a box set contains the Babylon 5 Seasons 1-5 (please see individual box sets for episode listings), all the Babylon 5 films and Crusade Season 1.

That enough B5 for ya?

larryone

While I'd love to discuss the merits of Babylon5, this isnt really the forum for it. I havent really got the cash to acquire the series that way...

So back on topic - Are the ideas of physical reincarnation and spiritual reincarnation closely linked? or is that just called pantheism?

coffee_cake

larryone wrote:

While I'd love to discuss the merits of Babylon5, this isnt really the forum for it. I havent really got the cash to acquire the series that way...

So back on topic - Are the ideas of physical reincarnation and spiritual reincarnation closely linked? or is that just called pantheism?

Physical and spiritual? I don't follow

Nevyn

pantheism

n 1: (rare) worship that admits or tolerates all gods
2: the doctrine or belief that God is the universe and its phenomena (taken or conceived of as a whole) or the doctrine that regards the universe as a manifestation of God.

Pamtheism is not reincarnation or a blief in reincarnation but the two can be at times linked.

larryone

physical as in death, decomposition, reabsorption in parts into another living organism or object,
spiritual as in soul breaks away from body, absorbes into universal conciousness, part of universal conciousness inhabits another physical form.

like that. a bit pantheistic isnt it?

Edit : in the sense of the second definition Thaedydal posted...

Nevyn

Just because you believe everything is connected ( engery can niether be created or destroyed ) does not mean you think the soul reincarnates.

larryone

I'm not saying that the concept of pantheism necessarily implies a belief in reincarnation. I'm saying that the concept of reincarnation I was trying to describe above seemed to me to be rather pantheistic - in a way.

ArdRi79

To see the neo-pagan version of reincarnation you can google the golden bough by fraser the poor sod was trying to discredit all the stuff he wrote about and he created a bloody source book for us, funny huh.

check under animism there if ye cant find reincarnation.

For buddist reincarnation I cant speak but if you're in Dublin there is a good exhibition in Dublin castle about Buddism, you go into the library then up the stairs to the sacred garden and there you are

joseph dawton

A difficult subject.

If everyone was reincarnated that would be impossible unless people shared souls as there are more people alive now than have existed in human history. This begs the question are some people new souls?

Personally I believe yes, I am not entirely sure about what the Greeks called metempsychosis or Transmigration of Souls - they (and also the Druids) believed we could transform into a tree or dog or anthing else not just humans.

I do believe in an afterlife and from looking at people I could well believe that some souls are old and others new. Perhaps it's true that we keep returning until we have fulfilled our soul's destiny? There's no real way to find out without dying as past life regression is not entirely reliable otherwise there are an awful lot of Cleopatras and Napoleons in the world!

http://www.electricpublications.com

Asiaprod

joseph dawton wrote:

If everyone was reincarnated that would be impossible unless people shared souls as there are more people alive now than have existed in human history. This begs the question are some people new souls?

Great questions JD. I am going to bring this thread over to the Buddhism Forum and pop it in the Karma thread as we are currently (or shall be shortly as sooon as I get my morning cofee) talking about this idea of multiuniverses and shared souls. Do pop over and give your comments.