Deflectors etc. (South Coast CTV Q)

daveirl

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BrianD

Probably not and it depends what you are watching. Was it a terrestrial station?

Some of the larger cable networks take their signals off Sky as well.

watty

Comreg has a list of Licenced "Deflectors" (In reality receivers and transmitters) and what they are allowed to carry, anything else is a Pirate TV station and would be closed if anyone complained.

Chorus only take Sky channels of Sky. The UK TV they pick up off air analog in Clones.

All Cable operators and so called Deflector operators by irish law have to pay the program providers for permission to rebroadcast. BBC World TV, RTE1 Radio and a few other channels are free. But not all FTA Satellite is free for redistribution by cable or Transmitter.

daveirl

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Ulsterman 1690

Why would $ky give a flying fiddlers what Southcoast get up to. ?As long as they are not relaying one of $kys subscription channels it isint really any of their business.

Southcoast are licenced to rebroadcast certain UK channels (and in the case of one of their sites certain Irish channels as well) How they source their feeds is pretty irrelevent. Originally deflectors sourced their signals either from other deflectors or from analouge terrestrial transmissions (mainly from Northern ireland or Wales) but if some of them have discovered that digital satellite provides a better quality and/or more reliable feed then why shouldnt they use this to provide a better service to the public ?

decided to go into the services menu and get Channel 4 out of the 'Other Channels' section, which I couldn't figure out because it was there as number 104 already.

Possibly because they wanted the NI version of Ch 4 and were using a mainland UK card

byte

daveirl wrote:

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This is a common occurance on Chorus here in Donegal also, with channels like MTV, E4, etc. usually, it only does this if signal breaks up, but more often than not, you can see the EPG going to Services, Other Channels, selecting E4 and then sometimes picking 163 (E4). This is done automatically somehow.

Ulsterman 1690

usually, it only does this if signal breaks up

Why would the signal break up if the system is properly set up

you can see the EPG going to Services, Other Channels, selecting E4 and then sometimes picking 163 (E4). This is done automatically somehow.

Actually sounds like quite a clever setup albeit seemingly incapable of accessing directly via the EPG

Maybe it uses the mysterious RS232 port but like I say If the recieve dish is properly set up there should be no need for such a system

watty

daveirl wrote:

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There are at least 4 versions of C4. The one on the EPG may be the wrong one (different adverts).

You need separate permission from Sky. I was in the control/ equipment room of Chorus on Keeper Hill last summer and asked the Engineer why they were using analog pickup in Clones and microwave link to Limerick rather than direct Sky reception. They only have permission to use Sky for feeds that they buy of Sky (Sky One, Sky Sports etc).

rogue-entity

You would only need permission from Sky when buying feeds that require Sky's Equipment to receive. C4 is protected by VideoGuard which requires Skys decoders. You would not need Skys permission to receive BBC or ITV for example. Chorus should really buy the feed for C4 from Sky as it is a higher quality and then get a few FTA receivers for BBC 1-4 and ITV 1-4. Rebroadcasting with the permission of the respective channel owners of course.

Mossy Monk

i disagree about Sky being better than terrestrial. for example programmes with titles cut off in 4:3. you generally dont see this on 14:9

Ulsterman 1690

Channel 4 are a UK public service television network transmitted via the Astra 2 satellite. The only connections with $ky are
1) Use of EPG service (irrelevent since theyre sourcing it via "other channels")
2) Use of NDS videoguard encryption.

Channel 4 are not "on sky" they are merly "transmitting via Astra using $ky encryption"

So the fact that Channel 4 are being relayed on deflectors in Ireland is of no concern to $ky

watty

Mossy Monk wrote:

i disagree about Sky being better than terrestrial. for example programmes with titles cut off in 4:3. you generally dont see this on 14:9

Depends if you set up receiver as Letterbox, Crop or Animorphic.

My 4:3 shaped TV main does true animorphic WS, so the Digibox and other boxes are all set to 16:9. 4:3 matterial "fills the screen", 16:9 material has empty glass band top and bottom.

My Kitchen 21" 4:3 set does not do animorphic so it is set to Letterbox. 4:3 material fills the screen and 16:9 animorphic material is letterboxed, i.e. reduced resolution, and the bands top and bottom are empty TV lines, not empty glass.

I think the worst option is Crop or Pan/Scan, except when BBC do their stupid thing of puting 4:3 image in a 16:9 animorphic frame.

However my terrestrial RTE1, 2 and TG4 is often higher quality than Sky feed. This is more to do with MPEG2 encoding and RTE's settings to uplink than any 4:3 or 16:9 issue.

I do think though that everything should NOT be migrated to 16:9. I dislike the aspect ratio. It is artifical and not even matching any of the WS ratios invented by cinema as gimmik when TV became popular. Much material suits the 4:3 shape better. Material originally in 4:3 should NOT be cropped and ARCed to 16:9.

_____
For personal viewing as long as you have what you payed Sky for, they don't care. But for commercial viewing and distrubution this is simply not true. To use even a FTA channel you must have agreement of the program provider AND the delivery platform.

If it is on the Sky EPG, you will need permission from Sky to use it commercially as well as from the program originator.

If you can receive it (material on Sky EPG) without a Digibox, and have the permission of the program provider then "sky's permisson" does seem a bit odd. But according to Chorus does still apply.

Ulsterman 1690

If it is on the Sky EPG, you will need permission from Sky to use it commercially as well as from the program originator.

If not using the Sky EPG i.e. "other channels" or (in the case of BBC/ITV) a non $ky box then I dont see what business of $ky's it is. Channel 4 also have their programmes listed on all manner of newspapers, websites and paper TV guides but nobody has to get permission from all of these in order to watch/relay C4

To use even a FTA channel you must have agreement of the program provider AND the delivery platform

So are you suggesting that people with FTA systems are legally required to get written permission from EVERY Channel (and the appropriate satellite operatiors e.g SES, Intelsat etc) we have stored on our recievers ?

If you can receive it (material on Sky EPG) without a Digibox, and have the permission of the program provider then "sky's permisson" does seem a bit odd. But according to Chorus does still apply

I would have thought (especially given your own experiences with Chorus) that you wouldnt be inclined to believe everything they tell you

L1011

Chorus not taking the UK terrestrials off satellite for "legal reasons" is bull, they take them off air to get the Teletext and nothing more. They'd quite happily get rid of that pretty limited bandwidth microwave link down from Cavan if they could get Teletext off satellite.

watty

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

I
So are you suggesting that people with FTA systems are legally required to get written permission from EVERY Channel (and the appropriate satellite operatiors e.g SES, Intelsat etc) we have stored on our recievers

Not at all.

But if I run a Cable TV company I cannot do the same things as an individual.

The suggestion that Chours take the analog to have teletext is interesting. Though it is technically easy to strip the teletext in Cavan, send it via broadband to Limerick and put it on as teletext lines on Analog. The Digital MMDS and Digital Cable does not use Teletext in the picture, it is a separate data stream. Chorus and NTL both have all the gear to do this kind of thing.

So either way the continuing Analog pickup is strange. Does DTT have teletext? Apparently they are going to "upgrade" to use UTV and BBC from DTT.

Ulsterman 1690

But if I run a Cable TV company I cannot do the same things as an individual.

On the one hand -Point taken (Although I still dont see how relaying non-$ky channels without using $kys EPG data is any of $ky's business)

On the other hand -running cables across other peoples property without their permission ????? (Yes I know theyre supposed to get householders to sign "wayleave" forms but we all know that more often than not they dont bother their @:rolleyes: $€)

L1011

watty wrote:

Not at all.
So either way the continuing Analog pickup is strange. Does DTT have teletext? Apparently they are going to "upgrade" to use UTV and BBC from DTT.

No, it doesn't. Except HTV Wales, for some odd reason... or at least, it -did- have teletext, not sure if it does anymore.

watty

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

On the other hand -running cables across other peoples property without their permission ????? (Yes I know theyre supposed to get householders to sign "wayleave" forms but we all know that more often than not they dont bother their @:rolleyes: $€)

Unless you have a cable license you can't do this at ALL. But with a licence you need a householders permission, who can ask for a small rental or refuse.

Once it is there for 5 years without written complaint or rent paid the householder is stuck with it, even if no permission was obtained. It is likely that "ever" subscribing to the Cable TV would be regarded as "giving permission".

Ulsterman 1690

Yeah but in many cases they (or their contractors) dont even bother asking for permission (or get tennants/children to sign the "wayleave forms") many people mistakingly assume that they have the same access powers that the electricity or telephone companies have so dont bother complaining

watty

Actually they can be asked for compensation or rent. Though it is harder not impossible to refuse them access.

Since only the owner can give permission, then such a wayleave can be contested. It's worthless. But only if contestewd within a time period (6 mths? 5 year? dunno)

L1011

I know someone who refused in Ashebourne (overhead Chorus analogue network), when Chorus wanted to run cables along the front of his house to get to another ten or so.

He gave them permission when they offered him free cable. Sorted.

watty

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

Why would the signal break up if the system is properly set up


Actually sounds like quite a clever setup albeit seemingly incapable of accessing directly via the EPG

Maybe it uses the mysterious RS232 port but like I say If the recieve dish is properly set up there should be no need for such a system

My JVC S-VHS can change channel automatically on each record time entered via Video Plus. Uses IR Led to transmit to Sky box (and many other Cable TV or Satellite receivers). Digibox was not listed, but what else has same remote code for Pace, Sony, Amstrad and Grundig?

You can also get an IR remote TX dongle for PC Serial port to control anything including Digibox from PC SW

Freddie59

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

On the one hand -Point taken (Although I still dont see how relaying non-$ky channels without using $kys EPG data is any of $ky's business)

On the other hand -running cables across other peoples property without their permission ????? (Yes I know theyre supposed to get householders to sign "wayleave" forms but we all know that more often than not they dont bother their @:rolleyes: $€)

That would have been in the 1970s. The majority of new cable builds are underground networks. Have been since the late 80s/early 90s.:)

Freddie59

watty wrote:

Actually they can be asked for compensation or rent. Though it is harder not impossible to refuse them access.

Since only the owner can give permission, then such a wayleave can be contested. It's worthless. But only if contestewd within a time period (6 mths? 5 year? dunno)

Apparently when the cable is there for a very long period (10 years or more) it develops a right of way.:)

Ulsterman 1690

I think "squatters rights" is the term you are looking for

Oh and Ive seen towns which only got cable post 1988 with cable running between buildings. Granted much of the trunk portions of the network may be underground but one still sees cable, splitters/taps and even amplifiers stuck on the sides of buildings

He gave them permission when they offered him free cable. Sorted.

If everyone thought of that ..........:D

lawhec

byte wrote:

This is a common occurance on Chorus here in Donegal also, with channels like MTV, E4, etc. usually, it only does this if signal breaks up, but more often than not, you can see the EPG going to Services, Other Channels, selecting E4 and then sometimes picking 163 (E4). This is done automatically somehow.

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

Actually sounds like quite a clever setup albeit seemingly incapable of accessing directly via the EPG

Maybe it uses the mysterious RS232 port but like I say If the recieve dish is properly set up there should be no need for such a system

It could be the Pacelink system developed by Kesh Electronics or a "fork" of it.