Where does faith come from?

staple

Where does faith come from? If one had more faith, one would presumably do more good works, but where does it begin? Some may tell me to pray for faith, but it's hard to pray when you're being nagged by doubt. Isn't it impossible to pull yourself up by your bootstraps?
I'm really looking for advice/experiences from people with faith, rather than opening a debate on God's existence or the reformation.
Many thanks.

Excelsior

MODERATOR NOTE: THE THREAD STARTER HAS EXPLICITLY REQUESTED THAT THIS SHOULD NOT BECOME A DEBATE ON THE EXISTENCE OF GOD ETC.

THERE IS A VERY RELAXED ATTITUDE TO THINGS SPIRALLING OUT OF THE INITIAL TOPIC HERE BUT IN THE CASE OF THE USER staple I DEMAND THAT RESPONSES FOLLOW THE CHARTER OF THIS FORUM AND TAKE THE FORM OF CHRISTIAN COUNSEL.


Faith actually comes from God. Annoyingly circular, eh? In that sense, one really must pray for it. Praying, defined as sincere communication to God, is an act of faith in and of itself. It transcends the doubt that surrounds it and reaches out to God with the heartfelt concerns, even the actual doubts, that weigh on the person praying. So you should keep praying but be assured that even calling out to God in spite of doubts is an act of faith that he appreciates.

Another way of working through doubt and out into faith on the other side is through reading the Bible. Get out the Good News Bible you got from your Aunty when you were christened and start on the first page of Mark. Pray while you read. I often find that reading the Bible more than anything eases doubt or concerns I have because in its pages I see person after person who has gone through the same thing. I often find books about the issues I am struggling with by theologians to help me wrestle well with my doubts. CS Lewis is my favourite wrestling partner and I can strongly endorse all his books.

Another way I would encourage is by bringing your doubts to your Christian friends for discussion. Especially if you have very wise friends (who are usually older) who can guide you, this is a great step. First of all, doubt can only be dealt with when it is verbalised. Before that it is just a vague feeling, an air that you can't capture to examine and resolve. So even having someone listen can be good. But if they are wise, mature Christians, they might be able to point you in the right direction. Plus, praying together is a wonderful activity, doubt or no doubt.

Finally, there comes a time when you have to throw yourself into it. Jesus tells us that faith produces fruit. Fruit bears seed to keep more fruit coming so faith is like a cycle that can build stronger and stronger. Ultimately, it has to be started at some point though and there I think you should look closely at the major doubts you have and see if you can put them to the test by living in faith! I guess the example here is when Jesus comes to the apostles in the boat during the storm. What we learn from Peter there is that if you want to walk on water, you have to get out of the boat!

It is lways impossible to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Rely on God. Faith is trust. Trust in him and his eternal and passionate love for you. I hope that helps.

larryone

I've had many peaks and troughs. Praying for faith never really got me very far.
I think of faith as being like a feeling.
I've also had peaks and troughs in feelings.
At the moment, I feel like I've got more faith than I've ever had. I think it's because my ideas about my relationship with God have evolved to a point where I feel very comfortable with them.

BrianCalgary

We had a discussion in Sunday School recently on what is it we are putting our faith in?

For me it's not in the Bible, God's existence or the resurrection, beacause I know all are true. My faith lies in Jesus Christ and His plan for my life. When we skydive we are placing our faith and trust in the guy who packed our chute. In Christianity we are putting our lives into the hands of Christ.

The Holy Spirit has given all believers a few spiritual gifts to use in order to bear fruit for God's kingdom, it is a great job and responsibility. The only way to learn what God wants you to do is to ask Him through prayer.

Four years ago I told my wife that I felt called to go into full time ministry by church planting in Ireland. It has been a very trying journey as my wife just doesn't want to go (it rains sometimes there). Through prayer we are coming to the point where moving to Ireland is becoming more and more of a possibility. There are times when I got quite ticked at God for not letting me go when I wanted, but He knew best.

Because of my faith in God's plan for my life and my wifes and kids lives, I knew that we would be going in His timing, not mine.

I guess that's where my faith lies: in God doing what is best for me and my life, now it is in His hands, in His timing. The only way to come into agreement with Him on this is to pray.

I hope that helps.

John Doe

At the moment, all I need is faith in the basic decency of people. Seeing this decency and seeing the most perfect deeds of people everywhere leads me to believe that there is a God that is both the source of and the total of all these benevolent actions. So you see, my faith isn't really too hard for me to hold on to because in my mind it's a fairly rational extrapolation from empirical evidence. Not entirely rational, but then that wouldn't even be a faith I suppose.
Just to clarify: this isn't a Christian perspective so probably isn't what you'd be looking for on this board, but it's all I got!

CodeMonkey

staple wrote:

Where does faith come from? If one had more faith, one would presumably do more good works, but where does it begin? Some may tell me to pray for faith, but it's hard to pray when you're being nagged by doubt. Isn't it impossible to pull yourself up by your bootstraps?
I'm really looking for advice/experiences from people with faith, rather than opening a debate on God's existence or the reformation.
Many thanks.

Faith begins with believing in what you are told. Unless you are telling me what you believe in is not directly influenced by the information you had previous acquired. This can be direct verbal transfer of knowledge or through written words. It doesn't matter if the idea you believe in is true.

Faith I fear is a double edged sword. We all know of what people will do to each other when they believe they are right. More faith, depending on what you believe, might mean you do more bad things.

Good advice here excelsior but I'd make some changes...

Excelsior wrote:

Another way I would encourage is by bringing your doubts to your [STRIKE]Christian[/STRIKE] friends for discussion. Especially if you have very wise friends (who are usually older) who can guide you, this is a great step. First of all, doubt can only be dealt with when it is verbalised. Before that it is just a vague feeling, an air that you can't capture to examine and resolve. So even having someone listen can be good. But if they are wise, mature [STRIKE]Christians[/STRIKE] people, they might be able to point you in the right direction. [STRIKE]Plus, praying together is a wonderful activity, doubt or no doubt.[/STRIKE]

larryone

CodeMonkey wrote:

Faith begins with believing in what you are told. Unless you are telling me what you believe in is not directly influenced by the information you had previous acquired. This can be direct verbal transfer of knowledge or through written words. It doesn't matter if the idea you believe in is true.

I gained more faith through my own study and reflection and thought than through what I've been told to believe by any priest, parent or otherwise. As for belief and truth - If you really believe something and truly have faith in it, then it is truth for you. It becomes your truth.

Scofflaw

From being tested, and finding your faith to be a rock to stand on.

cordially,
Scofflaw

CodeMonkey

I gained more faith through my own study and reflection and thought than through what I've been told to believe by any priest, parent or otherwise.

You must have first began by believing in whatever materials you were studying...you gain more faith by your understanding and interpretation of the materials studied... You guys are all explaining how to re-enforce and strengthen your faith and not answering the question where it began...or am I being too literal here?

Asiaprod

staple wrote:

Where does faith come from? If one had more faith, one would presumably do more good works, but where does it begin?

In this case, I agree with all that Excelsior has said.
Faith is hard work. and it applies to many more things than just religion. Let me offer an example, I have total faith in my wife. I trust her that she will always do what is best for the family, she will support us and will fight to defend this family no matter what. How did I develop this great faith in my wife, by trusting in her. Trust comes first. If you do not have trust, you can never have faith. Now the hard bit, in order to trust in something to this depth in our lives we need to have actual proof that it is performs the way we expect it to. Excelsior has give very good guidelines to you on how to develop this trust. Using his advice I would concentrate on seeking this actual proof. I have no idea what shape or form it will take for you. In my case it was a personal issue, and my belief system pulled me through and out the far side in one piece. That was the turning point for me.
There will ultimately come a time when you have to throw yourself into it, and make a commitment. If you have followed the formula, when this time does come round you should have developed the trust required to make that final commitment of taking faith.
I wish you all the luck in your quest.

mpento

I have just started reading Dark night of the soul by John of the Cross. It might be where you are coming from? Faith does come from God but your experience of God can become an experience of nothing rather than the all loving, all knowing and caring creator. I have only started the book but have heard some interpretations of the concept. I don't know if you saw the Ray Charles movie but there is a scene where as a boy he is becoming blind and falls down in his home. He cries for his mother but she says nothing and pretends that she is not there. Ray Charles has to get up and find his own way. The Dark night of the soul is the same experience with God. Its not that you have lost faith since you believe God does exist but you are not going to get any spiritual handouts. Welcome to the crucible!

mpento

And just another thought. Describing "the leap of faith" some might suggest the you will be caught by God's loving embrace. You can also jump into the abyss. Its not that God doesn't catch you its just that God is in the abyss. Now what?:o

staple

Thank you all for those replies. You've all been very kind.
I'm afraid my problem remains: I have weak faith, so don't feel inspired to do those things like reading the Bible and praying, so my faith doesn't increase, so I don't do more good works. I think two phrases among your replies say it all: "annoyingly circular" and "you are not going to get any spiritual handouts." I'm sure there are weaknesses of the will and problem of sloth here as well. At some point I just have to pull myself together, but there's no point in telling someone that.

Regarding other responses, I suppose there may come a time when there will be some 'proof' or some crisis that will spur on my faith to something more mature but what to do until then?
Finally, re. the idea it's a question of believing something we have recieved on authority makes me wonder where the divisions are between belief, faith and knowledge: I have no problem saying 'I believe in God the father almighty ...', and don't say it with reservations, but I somehow feel that it hasn't penetrated my innermost being.
I'm sure all that sounds very immature and ill-informed, for which I am sorry.
Thanks again for sharing your stories and advice. I'll try to use them.

Asiaprod

staple wrote:

.
I'm sure all that sounds very immature and ill-informed, for which I am sorry.
Thanks again for sharing your stories and advice. I'll try to use them.

I do not find anything that you have said to be so and there is no need to be sorry. Despite the fact that many of us have different beliefs, we all have had to face the issue of faith. To have deep faith is very difficult. It does not happen over night. It takes time. The important point is that you have made the effort to remedy this situation by the very fact that you have posted. Keep your chin up. Keep searching for the truth. Keep asking questions. You will find faith eventually, we have.

BrianCalgary

Staple: Don't get down on yourself with regard to your lack of prayer or Bible reading. It is a problem that is replicated daily amongst Christians. We never feel we do either enough.

One thing that I find helps is to be involved in a Bible study, through a local church or at school. I find that it forces me to read the bible and to pray.

We had Bible study last night, it was cold out, it has snowed for the last three days, the roads are horrible, I just wanted to crawl under a blanket, watch Olympics and have a hot cuppa. I am glad we went to the study. There was great discussion on 1 Peter 3:1-7 and time of prayer that I would not have done without the support of my friends.

The Christian walk is not a solitary one, it involves others to help, encourage and support.

God Bless.