Is this deal good?

Hitman Actual · 14-02-2006 1:57pm #1

I cant remember how to work out a three-way deal, as covered in Sklansky's TPFAP (my copy is loaned out). Can someone please enlighten me on the method.

Friday scalps game, stacks as follows:

Player A: 180K
Player B and C: 100K each.
Blinds at 5K/10K.

Prize money as follows:
1st: 2400
2nd: 1400
3rd: 800.

We did a deal as follows: Player A took €1700, and myself and Pat took €1400(we were the 100K stacks, obviously). So is this deal good?

loosecannon · 14-02-2006 2:07pm

apart from the fact that there seems to be €100 gone missing somewhere between the deal and the original prize pool!

ollyk1 · 14-02-2006 2:09pm

I think you did well. I'd have only offered 1250 each if I was the CL.

P.S. Congrats on the result. You had a short stack at the 20 players left stage so you obviously had a bit of work to do!

ianmc38 · 14-02-2006 2:13pm

lenny_leonard wrote:

I cant remember how to work out a three-way deal, as covered in Sklansky's TPFAP (my copy is loaned out). Can someone please enlighten me on the method.

Friday scalps game, stacks as follows:

Player A: 180K
Player B and C: 100K each.
Blinds at 5K/10K.

Prize money as follows:
1st: 2400
2nd: 1400
3rd: 800.

We did a deal as follows: Player A took €1700, and myself and Pat took €1400(we were the 100K stacks, obviously). So is this deal good?

Was his bum sore after leaving? I'd say it was.

Culchie · 14-02-2006 2:14pm

Isn't the way to do it based something like that you would all get paid the equivalent of 3rd place (€800 each)

You then divide the rest of the prize money pro-rata (this is based on player ablity being equal )

So the remaining 2200 is done on a 18:10:10 basis

so something like 1850, 1375, 1375 would be the final deal .... so you did grand.

Culchie · 14-02-2006 2:15pm

ianmc38 wrote:

Was his bum sore after leaving? I'd say it was.

It shouldn't be, it was a fair enough deal.

Hitman Actual · 14-02-2006 2:19pm

loosecannon wrote:

apart from the fact that there seems to be €100 gone missing somewhere between the deal and the original prize pool!

Hmm, just noticed that myself, but I'm sure those were the figures on the night. It might have only been €1300 for 2nd.

Thanks Olly, you were second last table as well, I think? BigDragon was at the final table as well, but I think he was kicking himself over a play on the second last table that cost him a big chunk of his stack.

califano · 14-02-2006 2:30pm

lenny_leonard wrote:

BigDragon was at the final table as well, but I think he was kicking himself over a play on the second last table that cost him a big chunk of his stack.

He always seems to be kicking himself:)

Ballyman · 14-02-2006 3:05pm

There were 38 big blinds in play. Total prizemoney was 4600.

18 BB = 2180
10 BB = 1210
10 BB = 1210

So the fairest deal would be 2100, 1250 and 1250.

5starpool · 14-02-2006 3:26pm

Ballyman wrote:

There were 38 big blinds in play. Total prizemoney was 4600.

18 BB = 2180
10 BB = 1210
10 BB = 1210

So the fairest deal would be 2100, 1250 and 1250.

That would be a ridiculous deal. This is not taking into account the amount that each player is guaranteed. Removing that from the equation and divvying the remainder as in Culchies post is the correct way to 'scientifically' divide.

Obviously other factors such as player image, reputations etc come into play when making a deal. If someone is a very bad player sho has got lucky, then in this case I might not be too keen on doing a deal.

I would probably have dealt for 1800 if I was CL in this position.

BigDragon · 14-02-2006 4:42pm

rounders123 wrote:

He always seems to be kicking himself:)

Stops me from kicking other people.....:mad:

Norwich Fan Rob · 14-02-2006 4:55pm

its not an awful deal for anyone, but i think 2nd/3rd did better out of it than CL.

Hitman Actual · 14-02-2006 5:39pm

Culchie wrote:

Isn't the way to do it based something like that you would all get paid the equivalent of 3rd place (€800 each)

You then divide the rest of the prize money pro-rata (this is based on player ablity being equal )

So the remaining 2200 is done on a 18:10:10 basis

so something like 1850, 1375, 1375 would be the final deal .... so you did grand.

Thanks Culchie, thats what I was looking for.

tricky D · 14-02-2006 6:46pm

Spot on Culchie. The missing 100 was put tipped to dealers and to ease calculation.

Culchie · 14-02-2006 6:52pm

tricky D wrote:

Spot on Culchie. The missing 100 was put tipped to dealers and to ease calculation.

Only 100 ? I think we'll have to look at them calculations again, those Westmeath fellahs, I tell ya.

Hitman Actual · 14-02-2006 8:12pm

Tricky D wrote:

Spot on Culchie. The missing 100 was put tipped to dealers and to ease calculation.

Did we only leave 100 for the dealers? I always try to leave a decent amount and I thought it was more. I left 500 (~10%) after one of the end of month games.

Culchie · 14-02-2006 8:24pm

lenny_leonard wrote:

Did we only leave 100 for the dealers? I always try to leave a decent amount and I thought it was more. I left 500 (~10%) after one of the end of month games.

I was only joking.

I can send in that €50 from Vegas Nights team event into The Fitz if you want though?:D

RoundTower · 14-02-2006 8:26pm

Culchie wrote:

Isn't the way to do it based something like that you would all get paid the equivalent of 3rd place (€800 each)

You then divide the rest of the prize money pro-rata (this is based on player ablity being equal )

So the remaining 2200 is done on a 18:10:10 basis

so something like 1850, 1375, 1375 would be the final deal .... so you did grand.

This is very close, but it can't be exact because it doesn't take into account the difference between 2nd and first prize. This would be exactly correct if the prize structure was 3000, 800, 800 (where everyone is still guaranteed 800 and there is 2200 left over). Clearly this would be in favour of the chip leader, so the actual deal should be a good bit lower, more like 1750.

Suppose the chip leader wins 18/38 of the time, in proportion to his chips (more or less correct). If he doesn't win, how often will he come second? Well he will be up against one other player for 2nd place, and he will have 1.8 times more chips than him, so he will come 2nd about 18/28 of the time that he doesn't come first. From this you can work out how often each of the other two players come first, second, and third, bearing in mind that they are both in the exact same situation.

Doing the maths you get:

     Player A Player B Player C
1st       504      280      280
2nd       360      352      352
3rd       200      432      432

as the relative chances of each player

Now to find how much Player A deserves you find 504(2400) + 360(1400) + 200(800) / (504 + 280 + 280) using the numbers from that table along with the prize structure. This comes to €1760 giving the short stacks €1420 each.

So the deal that was done is pretty fair, very slightly in favour of the short stacks.

Bozzer · 14-02-2006 11:54pm

If you don't feel like doing Roundtower's math then you can just use this

http://sharnett.bol.ucla.edu/ICM/ICM.html

Hitman Actual · 15-02-2006 10:58am

Cheers Roundtower, top marks (sorry Cuchie!).

And thanks for that link, Bozzer.

Culchie · 15-02-2006 11:01am

lenny_leonard wrote:

Cheers Roundtower, top marks (sorry Cuchie!).

And thanks for that link, Bozzer.

I prefer mine

I can do my calculations sitting at the table within seconds.

tricky D · 15-02-2006 7:03pm

lenny_leonard wrote:

Did we only leave 100 for the dealers? I always try to leave a decent amount and I thought it was more. I left 500 (~10%) after one of the end of month games.

No, reckon it was more in the end. Twas more like, we'll take a 100 off the top to make the numbers rounder, work it out and then you could leave whatever extra at the desk. Dunno how much extra was left.

Is this deal good?

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