Chorus-Limerick-Digital.....changes.

jonski

Just got a letter in the door this morning from chorus. They are say that they need to upgrade my service ( something about the extra channels ,I have , being moved over to digital ). It also says that engineers will be in my area on Moday to commence this work and will call to my house to change the decoder .

Thing is , I don't really want the digital , and am quiet happy with the analog . While it might be right , once it comes out of the box I have it split running to 4 different tv's ,all of them receiving the basic channels indepently . To the best of my knowledge this cannot be done with digital and you need a seperate box for each tv to be able to watch different channels , each box costing extra a month . I have always been of the opinion that this is a blatent rip off and that there should only be one price for the signal entering your house , but thats just my opinion .

Anyone else know anything about this ?

John

watty

With the NTL/Chorus merger and need to compete offering Digital/Phone and BB and also to meet Comreg licence condtions I think the following will happen:

* NTL/ Chorus rebranding to UPC
* Same channel lineup everywhere (good for Chorus users)
* NTL still has analog for now
* Analog on cable and MMDS is definately going to go long before analog on TV aerial. It wastes to much bandwidth and encourages piracy.
* MMDS change to 120 Channel Digital only or close. Keeping analog going on MMDS limits it to about 1/2 the number of NTL digital channels and also analog MMDS is a very poor obsolete system

Chorus analog's difficulty is that some people only pay ONCE, no subscription and get FTA satellite:
http://bytelive.com/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=Free+To+Air+on+Sky

This is at least 25 good channels, nearly 50 watchable channels and 70 radio stations all free. The new owner of Chorus & NTL will be aggressive in marketing a triple Broadband/ Phone/Digital 120 Channel system that is better value than Sky Subscription and similar quality, because of having Broadband and phone (save 26 Euro pm on Eircom rental).

Sky charge €15 for each extra box. NTL only charge €5. Of course for FTA satellite (all above channels) each extra box is a ONCE OFF payment of €85 with NO monthly sub.

Hopefully the new ownership and greater investment will mean a better deal and better quality for those that must have or want to have cable.

Frankly I have had Analog Cable removed at THREE Limerick addresess. I have never seen a decent picture on analog Cable or Analog MMDS in Limerick. The Digital MMDS and Digital Cable I have seen is much much better (though not as good as my RTE via TV aerial or BBC via Satellite).

Jumpy

watty wrote:

With the NTL/Chorus merger and need to compete offering Digital/Phone and BB and also to meet Comreg licence condtions I think the following will happen:

* NTL/ Chorus rebranding to UPC
* Same channel lineup everywhere (good for Chorus users)
* NTL still has analog for now
* Analog on cable and MMDS is definately going to go long before analog on TV aerial. It wastes to much bandwidth and encourages piracy.
* MMDS change to 120 Channel Digital only or close. Keeping analog going on MMDS limits it to about 1/2 the number of NTL digital channels and also analog MMDS is a very poor obsolete system

Chorus analog's difficulty is that some people only pay ONCE, no subscription and get FTA satellite:
http://bytelive.com/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=Free+To+Air+on+Sky

This is at least 25 good channels, nearly 50 watchable channels and 70 radio stations all free. The new owner of Chorus & NTL will be aggressive in marketing a triple Broadband/ Phone/Digital 120 Channel system that is better value than Sky Subscription and similar quality, because of having Broadband and phone (save 26 Euro pm on Eircom rental).

Sky charge €15 for each extra box. NTL only charge €5. Of course for FTA satellite (all above channels) each extra box is a ONCE OFF payment of €85 with NO monthly sub.

Hopefully the new ownership and greater investment will mean a better deal and better quality for those that must have or want to have cable.

Frankly I have had Analog Cable removed at THREE Limerick addresess. I have never seen a decent picture on analog Cable or Analog MMDS in Limerick. The Digital MMDS and Digital Cable I have seen is much much better (though not as good as my RTE via TV aerial or BBC via Satellite).

Is there actually any decent channels on FTA?
Wouldnt mind hooking it up, if only to hook it up to the PC and muck around.

watty

Check out the link and make your own decision. PC recording / playback is identical quality to Live TV when using a PCI Satellite card (From 80 Euro) Dish and LNB required.

jonski

watty wrote:

. NTL only charge €5.

So I could get 2 or 3 more boxes for a €5 each per month ?

watty wrote:

I have never seen a decent picture on analog Cable or Analog MMDS in Limerick. The Digital MMDS and Digital Cable I have seen is much much better (though not as good as my RTE via TV aerial or BBC via Satellite).

Well thats the thing , I have always had a good picture on my cable with the added bonus of the kids getting out of the parents hair by going to one of the other rooms to watch those god awful american teen series' or some of those new rubish cartoons ( yes , I am getting old ) .

Anyone know if C4 in on it , I see a symbol 4 and am assuming this is it .

watty

NTL and Chorus both do C4.

Once the merger is fully worked out UPC will have same charges in NTL and Chorus areas. All those Dublin NTL people won't pay EXTRA for the boxes. They'll have to reduce the charge in Limerick and Cork.

Some Chorus Analog MMDS folk are paying as much for 11 rubbish reception analog channels as NTL digital users paying for 70 digital ones. That will have to change.

It's their main selling point over Sky, as an IRISH Sky card does not have C4 or Five. (A Free To View UK card or UK Sky does, so Satellite C4 is techniocally possible in Ireland).

jonski

Right , made the phone call , and made the leap . Dropped the singular movie channel and went with the expanded basic . You are only allowed 3 digital points in the house , but are then allowed an extra two analog points after that . I was paying €47.99 for ex basic and sky movie premier ( as it was when I first got it ) , now I will have the one point and ex basic for €29.99 , plus two more digital points for €10 plus one analog for € 6 , meaning a total of €46 .

As a side note the girl said that the tech guy would call tomorrow and do the initial digital point , but he would then have to come back at a later stage to install the others , could be in a few weeks time , but in the mean time he will leave the old analog box with me .

Also , when I enquired , she said they were getting ready to launch cable Bb in the Limerick area .

Antenna

jonski wrote:

While it might be right , once it comes out of the box I have it split running to 4 different tv's ,all of them receiving the basic channels indepently .

YOu could have done with that with the Chorus digital as well, the Chorus digital boxes I have seen have an RF modulator with loopthrough (to allow unscrambled analogue channels to pass). Its only the scrambled analogue thats being discontinued in Limerick, so you are not losing any functionality you currently have with VCRs etc

jonski

Antenna wrote:

YOu could have done with that with the Chorus digital as well, the Chorus digital boxes I have seen have an RF modulator with loopthrough (to allow unscrambled analogue channels to pass). Its only the scrambled analogue thats being discontinued in Limerick, so you are not losing any functionality you currently have with VCRs etc

Only found this out when the guy arrived today and set it up , am now in discussions with the rest of the family as to what we will do now , might cancel the other boxes , or maybe just get one . Why is it that they have to run a new cable ? , guy said that for digital they would have to run a new cable .

Jumpy

jonski wrote:

Only found this out when the guy arrived today and set it up , am now in discussions with the rest of the family as to what we will do now , might cancel the other boxes , or maybe just get one . Why is it that they have to run a new cable ? , guy said that for digital they would have to run a new cable .

The original cables that were run would now be very old. I would assume that its standard practice to replace the cables for digital TV to prevent problems happening down the line.

steveon

Hi Jonski,
At the back of the cable digital boxes (Bright Grey Colour) there is a second RF connection, this allows the basic cable package to pass out and so can be used to split the cable to other rooms in the house.

Alternatively if u connect the digital box to a VCR via scart and then place your VCR on the AV channel you can watch the Digital signal throughout the House.

You can also do this with certain Digital MMDS Decoders.

The reason for the upgrades is that all the Expanded Basic cable channels are being removed to make room for Chorus Broadband which will begin tranmission late march starting in the Raheen Area before being expanded throughout the city, to facialitate this most customers Analog Boxes are now being faised out.

Regards,
Steve

steveon

Just noticed your second question why a new cable needs to be run, in order for you to have a proper digital reception the old cable run, either white,brown or grey cable (50 Ohm 2 Core) is being replaced to black cable (100 ohm 3 Core) to faciliate the digital carrier and to enable you to be able to receive the shortly to be established Chorus Broadband Service being rolled out as I type this


Regards,
Steve:v:

jonski

steveon wrote:

Just noticed your second question why a new cable needs to be run, in order for you to have a proper digital reception the old cable run, either white,brown or grey cable (50 Ohm 2 Core) is being replaced to black cable (100 ohm 3 Core) to faciliate the digital carrier and to enable you to be able to receive the shortly to be established Chorus Broadband Service being rolled out as I type this


Regards,
Steve:v:

Rught , that explains it then . Three more questions if I may , how do you know this ? , can you tell me more about the comming BB , and last but not least , the guy ran a new cable in as far as the attic , but from there he connected it to the old white cable and used that to make it's way down to the TV , would this make a difference in me getting BB later on .

John

watty

jonski wrote:

Rught , that explains it then . Three more questions if I may , how do you know this ? , can you tell me more about the comming BB , and last but not least , the guy ran a new cable in as far as the attic , but from there he connected it to the old white cable and used that to make it's way down to the TV , would this make a difference in me getting BB later on .

John

Only UPC knows what is happening in Chorus/NTL Ireland regarding BB. Though you can assume that they will be providing a better service, more widely of cable Digital with Phone, BB and TV on it.

No. Only the cable in the street makes much difference. The main changes are at the point where each street or group of smaller streets is fed.

rogue-entity

There is no difference between the "digital" TV points and the "analogue" TV points.

In our house the wire coming from the NTL tap runs into a splitter, then another splitter that feeds two NTL points. One of them is an old Cablelink "belling-lee" socket that feeds the NTL digital box. The other point is a newer F-Type and it is for the analogue channels. That first splitter runs upstairs and used to feed my room, my parents room and my brothers room via two other splitters in series. The cables just dropped into the attic and went straight into the TV. These never had the NTL termination points and we were never charged rental on them. And here is the good bit, NTL intalled these points for us. The cable feeding my room had the worst signal quality such that Sky1 was black and white and very snowey. I got NTL to add a proper point for my room and it runs straight from the main tap.

The point is that I could run an NTL digital box form any of these connections with no hassle.

bk

So can I get this clear, is the following correct?

Previously Chorus in Limerick offered scrambled analogue TV (you need a "black box" and subscription to watch it on each TV).

Now they are replacing it will unscrambled analogue (can watch with a box and feed to multiple TVs to watch different channels at the same time) and a Digital TV service?

How many channels are on the Digital TV service?

What does it cost?

How many channels are on the analogue TV service?

What does the analogue TV service cost?

Cheers

jonski

bk wrote:

Previously Chorus in Limerick offered scrambled analogue TV (you need a "black box" and subscription to watch it on each TV).

No , Chorus offered unscrambled analog , just premium channels were scrambled .

bk wrote:

Now they are replacing it will unscrambled analogue (can watch with a box and feed to multiple TVs to watch different channels at the same time) and a Digital TV service?

Yes , it feeds to a digital box , but the analog also comes out of this box and is unscrambled , for the basic channels

bk wrote:

How many channels are on the Digital TV service?

No 100% sure , think it's around 40 or so

bk wrote:

What does it cost?

€29.99

bk wrote:

How many channels are on the analogue TV service?

rte 1 & 2 , tv3 tng , bbc1 & 2 , utv , c4 , sky 1 sky news , eurosport , can't remember if there is more .

bk wrote:

What does the analogue TV service cost?

Cheers

Don't fully understand this one , you can't subscribe to the analog anymore , I think .

bk

Thanks for the answers jonski.

Ah I understand now, Chorus Limerick used to have extra premium channels scrambled. They are now getting rid of these scrambled channels and replacing them with an expanded digital service. The basic service remains the same (unscrambled).

BTW what were the premium channels?

I'd say Chorus Limerick will launch an expanded digital service with 100+ channels equivalent to NTL, depending on how many Premium channels there were and the space that they can free up.

The reason I was asking is that in Cork, all analogue channels including the basic channels are scrambled. I was hoping that Chorus (UPC) might be moving away from the scrambled analogue service completely, including Cork, but it may not be so

BTW What is the make and model of the set top box you got for digital?

jonski

bk wrote:

BTW what were the premium channels?

vh1 , the box , nat. geographic , paramount , history , biography , bravo , cartoon network ,some other cartoon one ....think that was it , plus the other packages with sky sports and sky movies

bk wrote:

BTW What is the make and model of the set top box you got for digital?

Sagem ICD-60 , can't seem to google this though , well not in english anyway

bk

jonski wrote:

vh1 , the box , nat. geographic , paramount , history , biography , bravo , cartoon network ,some other cartoon one ....think that was it , plus the other packages with sky sports and sky movies

That is interesting. Those 8 channels represent about an extra 80 - 100 digital channels, roughly speaking an analogue channel takes the space of about 10 - 14 digital channels

I'd say that they may keep 2 or 3 of those analogue channels to add E4, Paramount and the new C6 to the basic analogue service so that it is the same as what you get on NTL.

bk

So Chorus Limerick basic analogue is unscrambled. Does anyone know if the other Chorus areas (Kerry, Kilkenny, etc) are scrambled or unscrambled?

Is Cork the only scrambled area?

Does Cork also have these extra premium channels?

Cheers

Antenna

bk wrote:

So Chorus Limerick basic analogue is unscrambled. Does anyone know if the other Chorus areas (Kerry, Kilkenny, etc) are scrambled or unscrambled?

Is Cork the only scrambled area?

With the exception of some small scale cable systems which are fed with the MMDS service,
Cork is the only cabled area in the country that has scrambling for the basic service. Everything bar RTE1 ,2,TV3,TG4, and Chorus sports is scrambled.
Scrambling of basic service was introduced in Cork in 1987 or thereabouts. This led to considerable hostility from the TV trade (as well as the general public) who feared it would lead to a decrease in subscribers purchasing VCRs, and additional TVs. Despite the protests and hostility, the then Cork Multi-Channel did not back down.
Back then the costs of cable in Cork was far higher than other cities - this led to theft of service being a far greater problem in Cork than Dublin Waterford etc - hence the reason given as to why scrambling was introduced for the basic service. When those Jerrold descramblers were introduced in Cork the general public there referred to them as the "black box".

BTW
Limerick cable use the same type of scrambling system for analogue premium channels (synch suppression), though Chorus MMDS in Co. Kilkenny was using Videocrypt (like the old Sky Analogue satellite) type scrambling when I was there a few years ago (the different system for MMDS in Kilkenny being a legacy from the previous owners).

bk

Antenna wrote:

When those Jerrold descramblers were introduced in Cork the general public there referred to them as the "black box".

Yes, those awful black boxes, everyone in Cork hates them. The TV service would often go down for days on end and even when it worked the picture and sound quality is awful.

It is the reason why most people in Cork hate Chorus so much and when Sky Digital launched, Cork people started deserting Chorus in massive numbers and it continues to this day. It just goes to show that people are willing to pay for the service as long as the service is of a good quality.

When I moved to Dublin I was shocked that NTL was unscrambled, that it was far better value for money, that the picture and sound quality was so much better (even on analogue!) and that there customer services department was so good! Just shows how bad Chorus was in Cork.

I wonder will UPC remove the scrambling system as it continues to be a pain?

zilog_jones

Any progress with the cable in Limerick? I'm still on analogue in Caherdavin (Northside of the city) and we haven't been told about any new services.

Back at the beginning of the year the VHF Band I channels (BBC 2 and Eurosport) were moved to Band III (probably replacing some scrambled channels), with captions on the channels saying they are moving them to facilitate a broadband service - this was at the same time Channel 6 was introduced (on Band III or Hyperband or somewhere high). We were given leaflets about this, but they didn't say anything specific about when we'll be getting broadband, and said nothing about digital TV.

Just for clarification on the analogue service:
We get 17 unscrambled channels: The 4 terristrials, BBC1 & 2 NI, UTV, C4, Sky One, Sky News, E4, Eurosport, Discovery (Disc. Real Time until 6pm, previously Home & Leisure), Paramount (Nickelodeon until 7pm), Channel 6, crappy Chorus Channel (changes to PPV events sometimes) and At the Races.

There's also nearly always one of the scrambled channels that gets randomly unscrambled, which changes every few months - in the past few years it's swapped between Granada Plus (think that's dead now or ITV3), Trouble, ITV3, UK Gold, National Geographic, History Channel, and right now it's Bravo (though some days it's apparently not there).

I don't know what's scrambled right now, but most the scrambled channels still seem to exist. And they still require the shatty Jerrold/GI boxes - I know several people who have both cable they don't pay for *and* GI boxes they acquired by other means (newer models with better remotes and on-screen displays too), so it's not exactly a secure system.

Limerick's cable used to be Irish Multichannel up until about 2000 (their Amiga 500-based local channel was teh best, until their offices burnt down ), and it was originally Westward Cable.

AFAIK analogue MMDS still exists here, but there's also digital MMDS apparently coming from Woodcock Hill.